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The characters and other cards that aren't in 4e yet


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#1 Jake yet again

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 11:00 PM

Topic does exactly what it says on the tin. Let's start with characters...

The 2e base game characters are included in the set, as are some from other 2e expansions. In some places there are minor differences, but apart from the Minstrel (who is a relatively weak character anyway) losing his immunity to the Hag, I don't think there's much to complain about here.

Talisman the Expansion has fared pretty well. We're still waiting for Barbarian, Halfling, Hobgoblin, Pilgrim, Ranger and Satyr. Additionally the Rogue character from 2e was significantly different from the one described in 4e (more like a Thief for Spells), so there's some functional space for a new character loosely based on the 2e Rogue. The Pilgrim's convert ability is a little similar to the Ogre Chieftains dominate ability, although his Exorcise ability is quite unique. In 3e the Barbarian had a Beserk ability (optional, chosen before combat: +2 but if you lose you lose 2 lives), in 2e he was able to attack twice provided he didn't take a life in the first battle. Of the two I think I prefer the 3e version. The satyr's Panic needs to be worded so that it can't be used in the Inner Region or CoC and his grab followers within three spaces, is too low risk for my liking, but that's a matter of perrsonal taste I guess.

Talisman The Adventure was my favourite set, with significantly more complex cards than most other sets. So far, the only character which has survived is the Warrior of Chaos, which has been transformed into the Dark Cultist - he has lost his corrupt ability (which was a pain in the neck anyway) and the general consensus on these forums seems to be that the Rewards ability is now too good. Maybe there should be a house rule that the Cultist only gains Rewards from attacking Good characters or can gamble their experience stack for rewards - e.g. discard trophy, roll a dice, if it's less than the Str / Craft of that enemy gain a reward - but I'm digressing.

Of the cards that didn't make it we have the Centaur, Ninja, Orc, Samurai, Soldier, Witch Doctor and Woodsman. The Cenatur and Woodsman seem likely to appear in the Forst expansion. The Soldier would probably make a good candidate for the City Expansion. If the Witchdoctor survives the cull, his Evil Eye (which forces players to visit the Ruins / Chapel) seems unlikely to make it, as it adds an unnecessary level of bookkeeping to the game. The Samurai and Ninja represent "real world" cultures - so far we only have the Amazon on that front, and Amazons are a fairly staple trope in fantasy anayway. The Ninja also has a lot of disadvantages - and characters with disadvantages aren't always that fun to play, however cool Ninjas are. The bow which is possessed by both the Samurai and the Cenatur is also problematic. Ranged weapons never really worked in Talisman IMO - which might explain why we haven't seen the Archer yet. The Orc fits much the same functional and flavour space as the Hobgoblin - I suspect that if we if we get the Hobgoblin we won't see the Orc and vice versa.

From the Dungeon gave us we are still "waiting for": Conjurer, Inquisitor, Martial Artist, Pirate, Saracen, Scout, Spy, Swordsman and Zulu. Technically we also looking for the Dark Elf but he's so similar to the Vampiress, that it's not worth bothering with. With the correct spell (Finger of Death) the Conjurer could be devastating. If he returns, expect his discard a spell instead of the one you are casting capability to be toned down siginificantly. The Inqusitor "imprison" ability is a little like the Evil Eye of the Wicth Doctor in that it disrupts the flow of the game. It also makes less sense with the Dragon Raid (dragons expansion, Destroys the Castle) and the Jail within the City. Saracen and Zulu are real world cultures again, although Saracen fairly closely corresponds to the 3e Dark Elf from White Dwarf.

Spy and Scout having their "hiding" ability - interesting power, but turns portions of the board into dead squares for other players. Pirate is fun - removing Strangers from the board. If his ship docks at the Wharf instead of the Woods, he could make it into the City. Swordsman isn't especially unbalanced, so seems like a shoe-in for pretty much any small box expansion. The Martial Artist occupies the same flavour space as the Monk's inner belief implies. It's possible that a combination of the Ninja and Martial Artist might make a workable character - The 3e Assassin seems like a combination of these two.

It's seems unlikely that we will ever get the Timescape. It never real "felt" very talisman anyway. Therefore the characters: Archaeologist, Astronaut, Astropath, Chainsaw Warrior, Cyborg, Scientist, Space Marine and Space Pirate are unlikely to see play in 4e. Theoretically we may seem slightly reformed versions of some of these characters - the Scientist could become the Acaedmic, the Archaeologist could become a Tomb Raider, Explorer or Graverobber. Some of their abilities could appear elsewhere - the illusions from the Astropath might appear on an illusionist character, for instance.

The City gave us 4 Master Level characters - we'll have to wait to see how FFG handles the City before we pass judgement on them, though my preference is for the more scaled down versions found in 3e. The promotional material for the city that appeared in 3e also gave us four more ML characters - again, we will want to wait until we get the FFG city before turning our attentions to these characters. The city also supplied us with the Valkyrie (now available in 4e) and the Minotaur - a strong character that lacks a killer ability. Immunity to the Maze, Crags and Siren plus inability to wear a helmet. Maybe he should inherit the Great Strength ability from the Chaos Dwarf in 4e (when you attack another player, they cannot use Armour to prevent loss of life)

Dragons furnished us with 4 characters who strengths were closely linked to the Dragon theme of the set. Dragon Priest, Dragon Rider, Questing Knight and Dragon Slayer. Two of these characters (Dragon Rider and Dragon Slayer) transferred to 3e. The Questing Knight was awful. His starting equipment (Sword, Armour, Shield and Helmet) was superfluous - you only get one armour saving throw. His inability to attack weaker monsters meant that a lot fo cheap experience went amiss. The Dragon Priest is mostly tied to key cards within the set. This means he can suffer from deck dilution if you play wiht every expansion. Dragon Rider was reasonable - perhaps a little underpowered, especially if there are few dragons available. The Dragon Slayer had numerous disadvantages - he couldn't evade Dragons, had to go mad when fighting a Dragon (roll two dice, but if you get a double you lose one life in addition to the outcome of the combat) and he couldn't use any armour except for a shield. If his berserk rage was optional and he got a bonus fom killing dragons (e.g. +1 fate) he might make a better character. My suspicion is that if we see any of these cards is likely to be in either a Dragon themed small box-set or as part of the Dragons Towers.

The 3e sets were mostly rehashes of 2e, with many unqiue abilities lost - making many characters a little bland - and some capabilities assigned to new characters. many of the names are propietary (e.g. Skaven), so we may not see the exact characters again, though we may see a few of their abilities: The Witch Elf had poisoned weapons (causes loss of two life when you take a life from a character) This strikes me as very strong, especially in conjunction with Finger of Death. The Chaos Dwarf had Great Strength - which I'd suggest should be used on the Minotaur to make him a little less bland.

Two characters seem relatively distinct: The Goblin Fanatic and the Fire Wizard. - The Goblin Fanatic had a similar two dice combat attack to the Dragon Slayer; roll a double and you auto-lose the combat. His starting stats were weak: S=3, C=2, couldn't use Weapons, but he wasn't forced to roll both dice and if he got a double he'd only auto-lose as opposed to lose one life and then lose another when the dragon beats you! The Fire Wizard began with Fireball and, whilst he couldn't cast it more than once per turn he didn't have discard it when he cast it. These characters could easily be remodelled to Fanatic and Pyromancer respectively.


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#2 Jake yet again

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 11:27 PM

Next up Spells. Most spells have already already made it into the sets. There are a few functional differences in some places.

From Timescape we are missing Warp Gate. This isn't a great loss anyway, as the spell only makes sense with the Timescape board anyway and you can always house rule that the Magic Portal spell can be used as a Warp Gate if you want to use the 2e Timescape with the 4e board.

From White Dwarf 72 we find that Resurrection is functionally different in 4e. The original spell allowed you to steal another player's trophy for a temporary boost in combat, which is IMO far more interesting than preventing the death of an existing monster.

From the City, we have yet to see Temporary Change - a fairly useless, but interesting spell, that temproarily changed the targets alignment - steal the Runesword, cause a Good character to lose their final life at the Chapel, Mini-Vortex - a personalised Destroy Magic and Nullify that can only be cast in a particular region - possibly problematic if cast on the Valley of Fire, Feeblemind and Weakness - both of which caused a permanently reduction in attributes. The latter does exist in the game but causes a temporary 3 point Strength reduction. A Craft equivalent does not (currently) exist. Restoration is also different, now preventing the loss of a life - your's or a followers, originally it preventing the effects of one event. Given that we have Alteration (after drawing adventure cards, draw an extra one), I don't think this is a great loss.

White Dwarf 115 supplied us with Way of the Lotus. This spell is intrisically tied to the concept of Master Level characters, so we shouldn't expect it until we see the City.


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#3 Jake yet again

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 11:52 PM

Board Spaces. The boards are mostly unchanged. The Desert now allows you to draw a card, as it did in 3e. The Chapel allows you to pray once more (removed from 3e for no good reason) and the Toll Bridge (3e) has returned to the Sentinel (2e), although you could easily house rule a payment of one Gold to allow safe passage.

As of writing, there is no Timescape, Cave (a Polish expansion), Forest, Dragon's Tower or City. If FFG have got their business head on, and Talisman is still profitable, it seems likely that the last three will become expansions. For reference, the only special space in the Dragon's Tower is his lair itself, and this could easily be reflected on an ending card - though whether that takes the form of a regular monster or the mini-scenarios from T:tA is yet to be revealed. The City is too large to describe here - the 3e city was essentially one long street, whereas the 2e City covered a larger area and had more interesting buildings. Hopefully FFG will use the 2e model, as it was far more interesting. The only special spaces on Forest were the Wraith Lord (Craft 6, beat him to win a Talisman and 2 Gold), the Swampland (draw one forest card. On you next move you must roll 4+ to move) and the Mystic Glade (Roll a die: 1 - Fall into a slumber, miss a turn, 2-3 Nothing, 4: +1 Craft, 5: +1 Life, 6: +1 Spell). Every other space required the player to draw one or more Forest cards.

The 3e Mountain board provided us with Karak Doom which cannot be found on the 4e board. This read "You may search for Morak's Hammer. Roll a dice. 1-2 Attacked by orcs with str of 2d6, 3-4 Nothing, 5-6 find Morak's Hammer." The hammer was a weapon which could use to call on Morak's Spirit to give you a +6 bonus in combat. If you did so, the Hammer was returned to Karak Doom afterwards. This could be transformed into a home made card (using SE) which could either take the form of a Relic, or else be locatable at the Lost City.

3e also gave us the Realms Dice. This dice was cubic and was inscribed with 1,1,2,2,3 and 4. It was to be used on expansion boards only. with larger expansion boards and a rule chnage that allows us to dive right into a given expansion board, this dice seems superfluous, although it might be required if we see a reimagining of the Dragon's Tower.


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#4 Jake yet again

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 01:05 AM

Adevnture Cards. Thankfully, I didn't have to do much work here. This list is taken from another post: 

Taxation, Berserker, Giant Lizard, Highwayman, Orc, Red Dragon, Shade, Band of Zombies, Sphinx, Halloween, Judge, Secret Door, Ghast, Vampire, man-at-arms, Ferry Man, Archer, Bodyguard, Doomsword, Squire, Market day for trading lost file, Carrions lost file

 

PS:This is not including the Dragon expansion..

From Dungeon:

Skaven, Rat ogre.

From Mountains.

Cliff, Chaos Dwarf, Orc, Woolly Mammoth, Dwarf Runemaster, Dwarf Mercenary, Guide(for mountains) Merchant, scroll

It's worth commenting that some of these cards have functional equivalents, so can be disregarded. The Ferryman is now the boatman for instance and the Orc possesses no special abilities and can be easily replaced by another Hobgoblin. The Highwayman is a Strength 4 bandit who can be bribed for one Gold. Taxation causes players to lose gold. This seems most likely as a city event. Berseker (2e) is a cool monster that runs around the board after it is beaten. It has a similar Craft equivalent in Vampire Bats from TtA. both add a little bookkeeping to the game. It's 3e namesake gets stronger every time it wins a combat. Giant Lizard is a Strength 3 Animal - another pet for the Minstrel. The Squire is a neat little follower that gives +1 in combat and can carry up to to items for you. Red Dragon is, unsurprisingly, a big dragon who first appeared in Dragons. If we get some kind of Dragons set, he'll probably return there. Doomsword is the runesword in all but name. Secret Door (Place: Discard and draw three adventure cards) is a dumb name. I guess they could always rename it Secret Trail. Shade - a Craft 2 (or Craft 3 in 3e) enemy is nothing to write home about, although Shadow and Ghast from TtA cuased you to lose Craft and Strength repsectively. Vampire was a very cool enemy who not only stole one Life and one Craft, but also gained lives, making it more difficult to kill. Although the Dungeon has given us Vampire Lord at Craft 9 it's not quite the same. Bodyguard is essentially the same as the Champion. Archer allows you to make Str 3 no-loss ranged attacks up to three spaces away and may have been dropped as ranged attacks seem to have (rightly, IMO) been abandoned in 4e. Market Day (not the City card) was a great idea encouraging interaction between players. Carrions dumped players onto the mountain board, but was abandoned at some point during the design process. Sphinx was a creative idea. A stranger where you had to guess a die roll to win a spell. Hallowe'en allows evil and Neutral players to pray as if they were at the Graveyard. (IMO, it ought to have a counterpart - All Souls Day - tht allows Good / Neutral players to pray as if they were at the Chapel) Band of Zombies required a player to win 4 successive str 2 combats to win a point of Strength, an original idea which it'd be nice to see return. Man-at-arms gave a combat bonus, but every time you lost a life, you had to roll a dice and on a one you lost the man-at-arms instead.

The list is missing the Bow (3e) and the Quiver of Arrows (3e) which gave you a discardable +2 bonus in combat. The quiver, a highly situational card, could be discarded instead of the bow.

Astral Conjunction is completely different. The original doubled the Craft of Spirits til the start of your next turn. Howl of the Wendigo, a Mountains card, is also completely different, the original made all your combats deadly until the end of your turn. I guess they could always republish that as Season of the Witch.

It's worth adding that Instructor and Doppleganger were made available as limitted edition cards. An aisde: Personally I'd prefer that FFG used this technique to preview cards from later sets, rather than release special edition cards. Limitted edition cards disenfranchise sections of their customer-base, such as latecomers to the game, people who can't make conventions and customer who prefer to purchase from their FLGS rather than online. Thankfully these cards are very similar to the Academies and the Mimic card in the dungeon.

In the Dungeon The Skaven and Rat Ogre were merely ordinary monsters and can easily be superceded by the plethora of Kobolds and Gnolls that inhabit the Dungeon. However, the 2e Altar appears to be absent.

The Mountains. There is a Mammoth which forms part of the Frostmarch set, so we can discount this one. Chaos Dwarf and Orc are Strength based monsters so can also be disregarded. The Dwarven Runesmaster allows characters to gain 3e Runeswords by paying 2 gold and discarding a sword (3e Runeswords give +1 Str, +1 Cra in (psychic) Combat but the sword will break on a 1.) I guess a bright spark could SE up some cards and have them reside on the Cave in the Highlands. The Dwarven Mercenary was a clever idea. He cost a gold to hire granted a +1 bonus to Strength in combat. However he would leave you and join another character you encountered if they paid him a Gold. The Scroll granted the reader one spell. unlike, say the Magic Mirror, you didn't gain the spell straight away, so if you were at your limit, you didn't need to read it until you had to. The Guide (Mountains) is essentially a Mountain torch on a follower, allowing you to roll two dice and pick the best for your move. As he's only useful in the Mountains - and his name clashes with an existing card - I doubt we'll ever see him. The Merchant is a follower who you had to guide to 1-City, 2-Tavern, 3-Village, 4-Castle, 5-Temple, 6-Warlocks Cave. if you did so, you gained 3 Gold. Of course, the poor chap was just is likely to end up as Vampire chow. This guy could easily appear in the Forest or a small expansion set. The Cliff is the Rock Face, except that it requires you to roll three dice instead of two.


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#5 Dam

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 01:12 AM

Jake yet again said:

If the Witchdoctor survives the cull, his Evil Eye (which forces players to visit the Ruins / Chapel) seems unlikely to make it, as it adds an unnecessary level of bookkeeping to the game.

They better add him, he's one of my alltime favourites. Still chuckle when we talk about the game where I managed to draw the WD as replacement three times, so first dad, then son, grand-son and great grand-son all took the quest for the CoC (this was when we had a character deck of 36).

Jake yet again said:

The Ninja also has a lot of disadvantages - and characters with disadvantages aren't always that fun to play, however cool Ninjas are.

What I recall from the Ninja was that he was boring as hell, his ability to Evade anything he drew made the whole game bland.


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#6 Jake yet again

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 01:29 AM

A few other 2e Adventure cards are worthy of consideration. From the City expansion: The County Patrol tried to arrest any miscreants who had broken the law. This was judged as anyone in possession of a Warant card. The River Barge allowed players to travel to the Wharf in the city free of charge. The Broken Sword, Shield, Armour and Helmet could be fixed at the blacksmiths for one gold. Some of the "broken" cards can also be found in the Dungeon.

Incidentally, 3e had a clever rule for armour (and for wepaons) that could easily be adapted as a house rule. If you rolled a 1 on your armour saving throw, the item was destroyed.

I forgot to note the Golem, a str5 monster from Talsiman the expansion card which couldn't be affected by spells or wepaons. Also, the Judge, who penalises players who have attacked or used a special ability against any other player during the game. The Mountains also contained a Wyvern, a medium-high Str 5 monster who would not be of note, except for the Wyvern staff in Talisman Dragons. Also of note are the fact that the Orb of Knowledge was a one-shot item in 2e and the Crystal Ball allowed you to search the deck and add a specific card to the top in 3e. The Mountains card Landslide was alaos functionally different. The next character that landed in that space had to miss a turn clearing a patch. Once they had done so, the landslide could be removed from the board.


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#7 Jake yet again

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 01:50 AM

Forest next. Yes, I know it isn't out yet, but this out to give you soemthing to salivate over...

Events (6 cards): Forest Fire, Lost (x2), Pixies!, Timber!, Will-o-wisps
Monsters (7 cards):
S=1: Boar
S=2: Boar, Forest Goblin (x2)
S=5: Beastman
S=6: Minotaur, Treeman
Spirits (9 cards):
C=2: Ghoul (x2)
C=3: Apparition
C=4: Night Gaunt, Wraith
C=5: Barrow Wight, Jabberwock
C=6: Forest Elemental
C=7: Shadow Dragon
Strangers (3 cards): Centaur, Magus, Woodsman

 

Followers (3 cards): Guide, Healer, Lion
Objects (10 cards): Gold Coins (x2), Magic Arrow (x2), Magic Mushroom (x2), Scroll (x2), Snare, Sword of Power
Places (2 cards): Forest Temple, Hidden Path

Descriptions:

Forest Fire runs back to start of the forest, destroying persistent adventure cards on a 4+. Lost = Miss a turn. Pixies! roll vs each item in turn. If you get > Craft lose that Item. Will-o-the-Wisps - Draw three Adventure cards. (NB In Timescape they were a Craft 5 enemy) Timber! - Chasm as an event card! silly picture too!

Forest Goblin. Roll > Craft or become ambushed and get a -2 penalty in combat. Minotaur will eat a follower on a 1-2 if you lose a combat. Beastman will eat an animal follower if you lose to him.

Magus. Miss a turn, +1 spell. remains for rest of game. Woodsman: 1- attacks with strength 4, 2-Ignores you, 3-4: Look at top three Forest cards, 5-6: directs you, take an extra turn.

Magic Mushrooms. 1 = Poison -1 Life, 2 = Pass out, miss a turn, 3 = no effect, 4-5 = +1 Craft, 6= +1 Spell.

Sword of Power (aka Psionic Wand) = Use your craft instead of your strength in combat. (I do not like this one at all)

Hidden Path. Take an extra turn. Remains for the rest of the game.

Lion. Roll under your craft to remove the thorn from his foot. If you do so, he will add three to your Strength in combat. (If this reappears, I imagine it'll be a use once and discard card)

Guide (Forest) - Roll tow dice for movement in the forest and choose the best one. Given we didn't get a Mountain guide I can't see this one making a comeback.

Magic Arrow. +4Str, one combat. requires Bow. Too situational to warrant a return IMO.

Snare. May only be placed in Forest, Woods or forest Realm. Next player to enter that space (including you) chooses one: lose a life or miss a turn.

Forest Temple. Roll d6 and add your Craft. If 9+ gain a spell. Remains for rest of the game.

 


Lovecraft Country Horror - A completely FREE Big Box expansion for Arkham Horror, exploring the minor locations of the Cthulhu Mythos. Contains: Lovecraft Country Board, 16 Investigators, 4 Ancient Ones, 16 Skills, 32 Common Items, 24 Unique Items, 10 Spells, 16 Music of Erich Zann cards, 76 Leads, 4 Allies, 32 Monsters, 24 Injuries and Madnesses, 54 Mythos Cards, 41 Outer World Encounters, 52 Location Encounters for each Neighbourhood.


#8 Velhart

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 08:16 PM

I made a full list here from all the characters that we still need for Talisman revised edition



#9 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 09:08 PM

Velhart said:

I made a full list here from all the characters that we still need for Talisman revised edition

Thank you for the list Velhart. I copy/pasted it to a word doc.



#10 Jake yet again

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 01:38 AM

Interesting list, but it's not always clear what each character does. I did notice the Lost Files characters though, so took a quick look at them.

Pit Fighter (lost file)
Seer ( lost file)
Witch ( lost file)
Witch Hunter ( lost file)
Wraith ( lost file)

We've got a Seer now, so we can scratch that one. The Witch has a (non-alignement dependent) Beguile ability similar to the Sorceress and a movement ability not dissimilar to the Amazon. She's too similar to existing characters, so that's a scratch.

Witch Hunter is essentially a 3e version of Inquisitor, and suffers from the same issues as Inquisitor. He does have a cool ability where he can destroy the Witch (Adventure card, not character) but that's a little too situational to be of much use. He has to attack the Witch - which makes no sense if there isn't a Witch character in the game.

The Wraith begins with a sword, doesn't lose a life in the garveyard (but starts Evil, so wasn't under too much threat of that anyhow) and heals himself of one life whenever a player loses a Psychic Combat (Note he does not have to be involve in the Psychic combat) An interesting idea that'll add a little schaudenfreude to the game, though a name change (to avoid any confusion with cards of the same name) would appear to be in order. Nice idea for a character though.

The Pit Fighter (in flavour terms, far too similar to the Gladiator) begins with a Sword, Helmet and Armour and double the benefit provided by most weapons. This makes any +2 weapons (or more) very powerful, but acts as an interesting alternative to the Warrior.


Lovecraft Country Horror - A completely FREE Big Box expansion for Arkham Horror, exploring the minor locations of the Cthulhu Mythos. Contains: Lovecraft Country Board, 16 Investigators, 4 Ancient Ones, 16 Skills, 32 Common Items, 24 Unique Items, 10 Spells, 16 Music of Erich Zann cards, 76 Leads, 4 Allies, 32 Monsters, 24 Injuries and Madnesses, 54 Mythos Cards, 41 Outer World Encounters, 52 Location Encounters for each Neighbourhood.


#11 Jake yet again

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 08:14 AM

A few notes that I missed on the dungeon. The Giant Spiders have webs. In order to avoid the webs you must roll < Craft. Failure to do so gives you a -2 penalty in the combat. Also the Giant Beetle eats one of your followers when you lose the combat.

Talisman: The Dragons

General Notes: Rare as hell, I wasn't that keen on Talisman Dragons. It really did extentuate the luck factor in the game. On the one hand the adventure deck contained a lot of deadly enemies that could easily stomp over beginning characters. On the other, it contained a lot of very powerful magic items. There wasn't much middle ground at all, and the adventure deck became very much "do or die" with one player potentially getting over-powered goodies whilst another runs into very powerful enemies. Nearly all the cards are dragon centric, giving the expansion a strong theme, but making some cards pretty situational. The Holy Lance and Minstrel improve as a result of the dragons expansion. Talisman Dragons could be brought back as a small box expansion or - and this is my preference - components could be used as the basis of a new Dragons Tower expansion.

I'm only presenting the unused ideas here. If a card already exists in modified form (e.g. Storm Giant, Dragon's Lair = Miser Dragon) I'm going to ignore it.

EVENTS

Deadly Rivals - Lose one dragon follower, if you have one.
Dragon Sleep - Puts all dragons in play to sleep. Whilst asleep they are at -4 S. If they are unsuccessful attacked they awaken.
Dragon Dawn - Awakens any sleeping dragons.
Dragon Rage - Each player in turn must fight off a S7 dragon.
Dragon Raid - The castle is destroyed. It now reads Draw one card instead.
Shaman's Bones - Gain one spell.
Surpise Attack - Lose one life or one follower.

Most of the events are OK, but Dragon Sleep and Dragon Dawn could end up as non-events in many games. Deadly Rivals is highly situational. Dragon Raid is a neat idea.

ENEMIES

Dragon, (Amber, Blue, Emerald, Gold, Red, Sea, Shadow) - Either S7 or S8 enemies. Some breathe fire which requires a Craft roll to dodge. Even if you fail to dodge their flames you still have to fight them, meaning it's quite easy to lose two lives in a turn.

Storm Dragon - S8. Breathes Electricity. If you have armour, helmet, sword or shield lose one life. You still have to fight.

Wyvern (3) - S5. One of them breathes fire.

Dragon Prince (3) - s9

Dragon Cultist (3) - S3/4/5. If you lose to them and the Sacrificial Stone is in play, you are dragged there immediately and must face the consequences. The Dragon Priest can take them as followers instead.

Zombie Dragon - Craft 7.

Notes: The Cultists, Wyverns and the occasional dragon could end up on the main board, but putting too many Dragons in the deck could be brutal for low level characters. Of course, if there is a Dragon's Tower, these beasties fit right in.

PLACES

Cave of Bones. - If you enter, roll a dice 1-2, Empty, 3: Fight a S7 Dragon, 4: fight S8 Dragon, 5: Fight S9 Dragon 6: Teleport to the CoC.

Great Portal - If you enter, roll 2d6 and add your Str. <6 Lose a life and miss a turn. 7-14 Miss a turn. 15+ Move to the CoC.

Altar of Dread - Discard one follower. If the Dragon Priest is in the game, they gain that follower.

Black Temple - Discard all your gold. If the Dragon Priest lands on this sport, he may claim the gold for himself.

Treasure Horde - Similar to Fountain of Wisdom, Magic stream, etc. Place eight gold here. You may claim 2G per visit.

Wizards Tower - 1: Turned into a toad. 2-3 Ignored. 4-6. Gain one Magic Item from the discard deck.

Sacrificial Stone - Cut the Deck. If it's a Dragon you are completely eaten and must start again as a new character.

Notes: Cave of Bones and Great Portal could work in the Tower, but I'd never want them in the main deck as they are way too cheap. Sacrificial Stone is a unique idea, but I personally don't care for it and characters cannot use fate to save themselves. Treasure Horde fills in a nice design gap. Altar of Dread and Black Temple work best if there is a Dragon Priest in the game, but make for some "nasty" places. Wizards Tower only works if there are a lot of discard to use magic items. It's a nice balance of risk vs reward.

FOLLOWERS

Goblin Fanatic - Will fit in your stead. Has a Str and Cra of 0 but roll two dice in combat. If he gets a double, he auto-loses.

Dragon Rider - +2 vs Dragons.

Dragonet - You may add your Strength and your craft when fighting Dragons.

Dragonslayer - +2 vs Dragons, but you may never evade Dragons, even if you have the ability to do so.

Notes: Dragonet may be abusive againts the Dragon King. Goblin Fanatic name may conflict if the Goblin Fanatic character is also used.

ITEMS

Arcane Scroll - Discard to force a Dragon to attack another player. Notes: Encourages interactivity. Only useful if there are lots of dragons around though.

Book of Dragon Lore - Roll 2d6 when fighting dragons and use the best result. Also provides immunity to Deadly Rivals, Dragon Rage and Surprise Attack. Notes: Immunity to some events is a little situational. Value of book is in direct proportion to number of dragons in the deck.

Bracelet of Might - Your Strength is 7. You cannot use anything else (followers, abilities, items) if you choose to use the Bracelet. Notes: Feels like it's a rules FAQ in the making.

Crown of Domination. - Roll 2d6 < Craft when encountering a Dragon to take it as a follower. If you do so, it will add it's Str to yours for the next combat. The Crown isn't discarded! Notes: Quite happy to see the back of this one. If it does come back, hopefully, it'll be fixed like the Staff of Mastery was.

Dragon Amulet - A 2+ Armour save!!! Notes: Overpowered.

Dragon Eggs - Worth 5G at the Warlock's Cave.
Dragon Skull - Worth a Talisman at the Warlocks Cave.
Dragon Tears - Worth 5G at the Alchemist in the City.

Notes: No problem with any of these, they give players *optional* subquests.

Dragon Bane - Can only be used if you posses a Weapon. Doubles your Strength when fighting Dragons. Discard upon use.
Dragon Venom - Requires a Weapon. +3S vs Dragons. Discard upon use.

Notes: Both are useful if there are lots of dragons in the deck and filler otherwise. With the Trinket rules, they aren't so bad, though I'd be concerned about x2 strength vs the Dragon King, unless he was S12, Cra 12 who always attacked you on your lowest attribute.

Dragonwing Cape - Discard to telpeort to another space in your region (not inner), instead of rolling for movement. Notes: Will probably be used the turn after it is found if there are any useful spaces on the board.

Dragonscale Shirt - A 3+ Armour Save! Notes: Same as the Plate Mail in the City, but plate mail costs 5G.

Dragonskull Wand - 3 spells in a wand. These spells do not count towards your spell limit. Notes: Overpowered for a normal item. Should be a treasure or relic.

Exorcist's Blade - You may use your S in Psychic Combat. Notes: I really do not like this one. Characters should have flaws.

Golden Gauntlet - +2 Strength (For when the Magic Belt isn't magical enough!)

Grimner's Axe - +2S or +4 if you are a Dwarf. Nice bonus if the Dwarf can get it. Notes: Could do with a disadvantage such as you cannot use a Shield.

Hown of Horror - On encountering dragon, roll 2d6. If > the Dragons Strength you frighten it off to the discard pile. Notes: The Horn isn't discarded upon use, so basically it's a saving throw against all the dragons that you think you can't handle.

Lance - +2 Str, but requires a horse. On a 1, it shatters and must be discarded. Notes: More powerful than a sword, but the horse requirement renders it difficult to use unless the City board is in play and you can buy a horse.

Magic Arrow: Auto-Slays one dragon on a 4+ including the Dragon King. Notes: If it still works against the Dragon King it's anti-climatic and even worse now you can use Fate to allow you to reroll your dice throw. Otherwise it equates to a half chance (3/4 with Fate) to gain +1 Strength the next time you encounter a Dragon. The name is shared with a card of the same name in the Forest expansion, which can add to the confusion. Furthermore, how do you fire the arrow if you don't have a bow?

Magic Banner: All followers who can fight gain +1 Str. Notes: Worthless unless you have plenty of fighting followers. Broken for the Gladiator.

Magic Harness: If you defeat a dragon, you may take it hostage. It gives +3S allows in combat and allows two dice roll and pick the best for movement. Notes: The minstrel and the amazon are currently in talks with their unions about their infringement of their special abilities. I'm not a massive fan of taking dragons hostage. Can't any of these heroes fight on their own?

Magic Ring: Whenever you encounter another player roll a dice. On a 1-3 no effect. On a 4+ they are frozen to the spot and you get to steal one of their items. Notes: A half-chance thief. Not a big fan of this one.

Magic Tankard: Let's you heal fully at the Tavern. Notes: A neat original idea. Ought to work at the pub in the City as well, but I like this one.

Morning Star: +3S, but if you roll higher than your craft you hit yourself on the head and auto-lose the combat. Notes: And if your craft is 6+ it's a +3 weapon. If it was a +2 weapon and/or auto-lost on a 6 regardless, it might be better.

Phoenix Potion: Drink (discard) when you lose a life. Instead of losing a life, you gain one instead. Notes: A neat idea for a card. would probably be a trinket in the new set.

Psionic Wand: You may use you Craft instead of your strength in Combat. Notes: See Exorcist's Blade.

Ring of Command: Auto capture one dragon. Notes: Not a big fan on heroes keeping dragons as pets.

Rod of Dragonfire: Discard to kill one enemy. Notes: A get out of jail free.

Wand of Terror: 4+ evasion roll. Notes: Another toy for your favourite Astropath in the Chameleon Suit. Being able to evade on certain squares gives you tactical options. Being able to evade half the time anywhere is unnecessary.

Wyvern Staff: You may cpature any Wyverns you encounter. Thye add their strength to yours in your next combat. Notes: Wyverns are pretty scarce and aren't as powerful as dragons, so I've less qualms about this one.


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#12 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 08:39 AM

Very nice list



#13 Archdruid

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Posted 07 June 2010 - 12:20 PM

 Thanks Jake for the summary of Dragons cards.  Rod of Dragonfire has been reprinted as the Wand of Dragonfire, one of the Treasures in Dungeon 4th Edition.  I have the Dragons set.  My favourite cards include Great Portal, Wizard's Tower, Magic Tankard, Dragonet, Storm Giant, Dragon Raid and the various Dragon Cult cards.  One of the oddest features of Dragons is that there are no Strangers.



#14 Jake yet again

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 10:56 PM

This time Ending Cards, but before I do so, just a quick note about the Altar, a card which I alluded to earlier that was in the 2e dungeon, but not in the 4e dungeon. The Altar is a place card that allows any character interacting with it to pray (possibly triggering the normal prayer bonus for some characters) Furthermore, the Acrhaeaologist may add one to his result when using the Altar. The results are: 1 - Miss a turn, 2 - Nothing, 3: Heal 1 Life, 4: Draw another Dungeon card, 5: Take an extra move, 6: Gain 1 spell.

ENDING CARDS

Ending Cards were introduced as a concept in Talisman the Adventure. The rules were a little on the haggard side, engendering almost a page worth of FAQs, but with a little common sense you could work out the intention.

The Crown of Command is the default ending, from the original game. It's in 4e.

The Horrible Black Void is a divisive card. If you turn over the Horrible Black Void, you are immediately and utterly destroyed. This could be seen as poetic justice or could be really frustrating, depending on your viewpoint. The card is set aside and a new hidden ending is chosen. Later on, the Talisman Timescape offered the option that a player drawing the HBV should be sent to the start of the Timescape, instrad of eliminated from the game. If the HBV came back it should come back as a professionally printed card, not as fan created add-on. It is very important that you cannot determine that the central card is the HBV until you turn it over and this may be an issue with a home-made HBV.

Are we likely to see HBV as a new ending card. It seems unlikely. Most small expansions will probably have a major focus and, if they include an ending condition, the condition is likely to be based on that focus. The HBV could reappear in a big box expansion which has a little more room for peripheral resources. If we see the HBV returnas an insta-lose, including an insta-win condition (let's call it Throne of Glory for now) seems like a logical extension, as that gives players a real incentive vs risk decision in how fast they seek out the CoC.

The Demon Lord is a Craft 12 enemy with 4 Lives who erects a barrier over the Valley of Fire. A player fighting the Demon Lord can only fight one round per turn. This gives the other player ample opportunity to find spells that will derail the player trying to defeat it. It also means that temporary craft boosters like Brainwave, will only help for one round. If the player defeats the Demon Lord, they win, but if the Demon lord wins he recovers all of his Lives, removes the Barrier and waits for the next challenger.

The rules were somewhat unclear about the barrier over the Valley of Fire. Were players allowed to queue up at the Pits / Werewolf's Lair, or did they have to move back and forth between the Vampire's Tower / Dice with Death and the Pits / Werewolf. Personally I prefer queueing up, but that's a matter of taste.

Pandora's Box is a great idea. The opener must be alone at the CoC to use it. Each turn they draw d6 spells and d6 adventure cards. They can then play these cards on themselves or other players. Later on the rules were altered to state that spells could only be played in your own turn. I'd suggest rescinding this rule, but only allowing the opener to keep hold of cards from PB until the start of their next turn. Also, allowing the player of PB to play multiple cards at the same time is a good idea, which will finish off over players more swiftly, especially now that monsters stack so, if one of your opponents draws an unchallenging Bear (S3), you could add a Giant (S6) and a Boar (S1) to take the stack to S10.

A second rule I'd suggest is that once PB is opened players now longer need a Talisman to enter the VoF. With the owner of PB flinging out Acquisitions, Randoms and Nullifies like there's no tomorrow, it could be a long game before every other player is dead. Removing the Talisman / VoF restirction will encourage players to race to the CoC as quickly as possible.

The Belt of Hercules granted the wearer S12, 5 Lives and the power of ultimate Teleportation. Each turn, the wearer selected a target, teleported to their space and attacked them. they had the choice of using the S12 offered by the belt or their own Strength if it was greater. (The same could be said about their total Lives) All combats were to the death, no object stealing was allowed. The entire combat was fought in one turn. Note that the BoH player is the aggressor, so if they can make the combat psychic and it is in their advanatge to do so, it is probably wise that they do so.

The BoH could only be gained by defeating it's current owner. As the owner teleports around, it may be possible for a player to land on the BoH player and attack him or her. The rules were indistinct as to exactly when the BoH player regenerates back up to 5 Lives, though I'd suggest it be immediately after they finish their combat.

BoH could be slowed a lot if two relatively equally matched combatants have armour. With no object stealing capabilities and a half chance of negating each combat round, combatants with good armour could be in for a long fight. Making Hercules so strong that he ignores armour is probably not a bad call.

The final ending from TtA was the Dragon King. His effect was determined by a die roll. On a 1 - The Dragon King ate a follower and threw you back to the Portal of Power. On a 2 you had two fight his brothers and win three S9 combats in a row. Fail any of them and it's back to the Plain of Peril. On a 3 you had to fight the Dragon King himself. He had S12, C12 and 5 Lives and would fight in Combat then in Psychic Combat til one of you emerged victorious, if the King completly killed you, then it was game over (for you) and the King regenerates back to 5 Lives. On a 4, the King decided he was your pal and went to fight all the other players in the game, in an order of your choosing. If one of them killed the King, they won. If the King killed everyone else, you won. The King regenerated his lives between combats. On a 5, the King was asleep and you could assassinate him by rolling under your Craft on one dice! On a 6 the King was out to lunch and you seized his treasure for yourself, winning the game. Each time the King was encounter, players had to roll a dice. So a player who was defeated by a Dragon Prince (2), might find the King in a more convivial mood (4) the next time they encountered him.

By comparison the Dragon King from Talisman Dragons (and 3e) was a pushover. In 3e he had Str 12 but only one life. If you killed him you won the game, if you lost it's back to the Plain of Peril. In 3e he was even easier with one life, Str 12, Craft 12, but you got to choose which characteristic you attacked him on.

The Dragon will almost certainly re-emerge, although his precise format is a matte of speculation. The original Dragon King was certainly a lot more interesting than his later formats with their measly one life! Using Fate to reroll your result from the Dragon King should be banned, as this almost doubles the chance of rolling a six. Likewise the assassination roll isn't a challenge at all and should be upped to two or three dice rather than one.


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#15 crimhead

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 01:07 AM

Most likely we will not see every card/character/etc from previous editions.  Some (such as Chaos warrior) FFG does not have a license for.  Others will be replaced with similar elements - eg Battle Royal might be the replacement for Belt Of Heracles.  And some may be considered too broken, imbalanced, or out of flavour such as Horrible Black Void or much of Timescape.

Fortunately FFG is bringing many new elements to the game.  I'd love to see a list of characters and other cards unique to 4th revised - I bet it's impressive.  I just love fate and The Reaper!



#16 Jake yet again

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 06:30 AM

I agree. I doubt we will see all the old cards from Talisman, but by keeping all the information in one thread it'll be a lot easier for anyone who wants to make home-brewed versions of the missing cards or wants to know what is in other versions. It also makes it easier to discuss which cards we think will make it into other sets and which won't.

Another thread referred to the Timescape and listed the cards. Here are the descriptions to help fill in the blanks:

Hand of Fate (10):

 

1.Dimensional Rift(4) - Draw one Adventure Card
2.Orks - Fight 4 Combats against S4 opponents. As this card is an Event you don't get any experience from it.
3.Supernova(4) - Roll a dice. 1-3: Go back to the space you came from. 4-6 Move along the red line.
4.Warp Storm - Miss your next turn.

Enemy - Alien (10):

1.Astral Hound - S6. If you lose, lose 1 Strength as well as 1 Life.
2.Alien Spores - S4. If you lose, keep the card, each turn you lose a life til you exit the Timescape or pay 1G at the Space Fortress
3.Behemoth - S12
4.Star Predator (2) - S5
5.Sun Worm - S9, C9, fight on your weakest characteristic
6.Psychic Parasite - C6, If you lose, lose 1 Craft as well as 1 Life.
7.Space Vampire - C12
8.Will o’ Wisp(2) - C5
 

Stranger (2):

1.Omnipotent Being - Roll. Will look up later but all were beneficial and on a 6 you could teleport to any space on any board including the CoC unless the Demon Lord had erected a Barrier.
2.Time Travellers - you may move directly to the Space Fortress
 

Object (17):

1.Alien Artefact(4) - Discard and immediately gain 2G.
2.Anti-Grav Platform - Carry as much as you like.
3.Battle Armour - +2S, 4+ Armour save
4.Chameleon Suit - May evade physical enemies and other characters on 4+
5.Combat-Enviro Suit - Don't lose a life in desert. Don't roll in Rad Zone. ignore a 1 on Death World.
6.Force Shield - 4+ Armour Save
7.GyroCompass - +2 Craft in the Mines
8.JetPack - May add 1 to your move after you roll

Medikit(2) - Discard to heal 2 lives
9.Mining Laser - +2 Str in the Crypt
10.Power Glove - Weapon: +2S in combat
11.Psi-Helmet - +2C in Psychic Combat.
12.Warp Belt - May always choose to move along Red Lines on timescape. (Very broken with Negative Zone/Time-loop)

Follower (3):

1.Battle Droid - S6, C6 may fight in your place. If defeated it becomes an object and can be repaired at Space Fortress for 2G. Immune to Mesmerism, Leper, Cyclops, Hag, Werewolf and Sorceress
2.Star Sprites - May Evade Warp Demon. May add one when praying.
3.Symbiote - -1S (even below starting quota), +3 C

Purchase Deck: Chainsword, Combat enviro suit, Gyro Compass, Mining Laser, Jet Pack, Power Axe, Psi Helmet. (The Chainsword is a +2 Weapon that, oddly, can't be used to chop down trees to make a raft)

Unusual Board Spaces

Warp Gate: Start of timescape board

Nexus: Draw 5 Adventure Cards and choose one to encounter.

Sentinel Outpost: Roll. 1 Go to Vortex, 2 Imprisoned, 3: Pay 2G or Imprisoned, 5-6: move anywhere in the timescape.

Death World: Roll. 1 - Poison Sky, lose a life, 2 Fight a S9 alien, 3 - fight a C9 alien, 4 Draw 1 Adventure Card, 5 Draw 2 adventure cards, 6 Draw 3 Adventure cards.

Space Fortress: Heal lives back at a cost of 1G each OR you can buy goods at following prices; Gyro Compass / Mining Laser - 2G, Combat Enviro-Suit - 3G, Jet Pack - 4G, Chainsword / Power Axe / Psi Helmet - 5G.

Rad Zone: Mutates you. Roll. 1 +2C, 2 -1C, 3-4 -2 Lives, 5 -1S, 6 +2S

Time Loop: Return to the space you just came from. (usually either Space Fortress, Rad Zone or Negative Zone)

4th Dimension: If you enter as a toad you are restored to normal. if you get turned into a toad in the 4th Dimension you are restored to normal on exit. (This is hidden away in the rulebook!)

Warp Demon: S12, C12. Must choose to fight on one stat. If you win, get +2 in that stat.

Vortex: Roll and move to 1: Crags, 2 Warlocks Cave, 3 Village, 4 Temple, 5 Plain of Peril, 6 Warp Gate

Other stuff: Imprisonment sent you to the Space Fortress. To escpe imprisonment you had to roll 2d6 < Craft. after three turns of imprisonment you were automatically freed. The Timescape represented entire galaxies, consequently all Adventure cards were resolved and then discarded. Furthermore, you could not encounter other players in the timescape. You could not cast spells in the timescape and all Magic Objects ceased to function. Movement in the timescape was handled even more randomly than usual by Red, Green and Blue lines, with a 1 in3 chance of travelling along each.

You could enter the Timescape by casting Warp Gate or by visitting the Enchantress, Mystic or Warlock. The first two required you to roll less than your craft on D6, the third required a sacrifice.

Verdict: Timescape is an anamoly that probably had more to do with GW's marketting department than developing Talisman as a game. The encounter deck is fairly unbalanced and there are some hurrendous combos revolving around abusing the Timeloop til you had looted all the treasure from the timescape. There was a suggestion that it could be redesigned as an ocean expansion with suitable card renames (e.g. Chamelon Suit becomes Cloak of Illusion) Many cards make no sense outside of the Timescape setting, though some of their functions (e.g. Medi Kit) could be used as seeds for other cards.

Your thoughts?


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#17 talismanamsilat

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 10:11 AM

I doubt very much that the Timescape expansion will ever return. Certain cards may well appear with new names and different mechanics. The Behemoth for one would be a good card to reintroduce (teamed with a new card - Leviathan). Psi-Helm is another idea for a revised 4th card.

Ell.



#18 Jake yet again

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Posted 19 June 2010 - 10:57 PM

I wish FFG had chosen forum software with Edit facilities.

 

The Omnipotent Being is the only Timescape card I faield to describe last time. Upon ecnounter this starnger roll a dice. On a 1 - Gain one Craft, 2 - gain one Strength, 3 - Gain two Lives, 4 - Gain two Craft, 5 - Gain two strength and 6 - Teleport to any space on any board (including the CoC, unless the Demon Lord has erected a barrier)

It's a woefully unbalanced and forms part of the infamous Timeloop exploit. Whilst it could make a comeback as "Odin" or somesuch, I don't think it's a major loss if we never saw it again.

There is also a very small difference in the TtA Cave Troll and the current one, inasmuch as the TtA Troll had text which allowed the Troll to evade it, if he so wished, whereas that ability is absent in the present version of the game. Again, this isn't a major loss.

DRAGON'S TOWER

The Dragon's Tower supplemented the third edition ending. The original 3e ending worked thus: You crossed the Causeway and then had to encounter in turn the following cards: Portal of Power (discard a Talisman or lose d6 lives), Magical Trap: roll for each object on a 1-2 you lose it, Pit Trap: roll for each follower, on a 1-2 you lose them, Dragon King - Fight a S12 / C12 Dragon. If you lose, go back to the Causeway. Crown of Command (You win! No end game, no race to get to the crown, no death-defying struggle between two titanic opponents, you win!)

The Tower replaced the Inner Region with a 3D structure, for which you had to use the realms die, a cubic dice with 1,1,2,2,3 and 4. Consequently movement through the Tower was significantly slower than in other regions. Players who encountered one another in the Tower could still fight as normal, unlike the Inner Region. Most (but not all) of the cards in the Tower were hazardous, as would be expected.

The Cards

Events

Portcullis – 2d6 <= Str to pass. You must pass this test to progress.
Puzzle Lock – Craft version of Portcullis
Rotating Room– Must move backwards next turn.
Secret Passage (Oddly it’s an event, not a place) – If you go through 1- Back 2 Spaces, 2 – Back one space, 3-4 +1 Space, 5 +2 Spaces, 6 +3 Spaces
Werewolf – As the existing werewolf event.
Wizards Curse – Keep this card. You must half your stats in the next (psychic) combat.
Trip Wire – Lose one life. You may try to use armour to prevent this loss.
Cursed Ring – You must take it. You get -1 penalty in all combats and psychic combats. If you beat another player you may force them to take it instead of taking a life.
Falling Block – Kills one follower.
Dice with Death – As regular DwD
Pit Trap – Opens up behind you, you are safe, but must roll for each follower. On a 1-2, discard them.
Magical Trap – Roll a die for each object. Discard it on a 1-2.

A good selection of dangerous traps. Portcullis and Puzzle Lock are simplified versions of the Mines and the Crypt. (And without the Mines on the board, the Dwarf is significantly downgraded)

Objects

Potion of Strength – +3 Str for one turn (discard)
Potion of Wisdom – +3 Craft for one turn (discard)
Potion of Healing – Heal all Lives (discard)
Lucky Charm– Discard to force reroll of one dice roll (NB It doesn’t have to be one affecting you!) - Notes: Fate on a stick. Slightly more powerful than normal fate, as you can use it to shaft someone else.
Pandora’s Box – Open any time to gain a spell (even if you can’t normally hold it) Notes: Conflicts with an alternative ending. Functonally the same as a Scroll.

Notes: We’ve seen the potions before. Lucky Charm is Improved Fate on a stick, as you can shaft someone else with it. Pandora’s box conflicts with one of the more inventive ending cards and is functionally the same as a Magic Scroll. Some of these would be trinkets.

Stranger

Madman – If you follow him, roll a dice. 1 – Go back to Portal of Power. 2-4 Leads you nowhere. 5-6 Move straight to CoC.
Raven – If you speak with him, roll a die. 1- Miss next turn, 2-3 Ignored, 4-6: You may ignore the next Event you encounter in the Tower.

Madman could be cheap with Fate. Perhaps he should only work if someone was already at the CoC. Raven is OK and could easily be turned into a regular Adventure card.

Enemies

Undead Champion – Str 7. Must be killed before you can progress.
Liche – Craft 8. If he beats you, lose 1 Craft and the Liche gains 1 Craft.
Skeleton Warriors - Each has Str 2 and there are d6 of them.
Mummy – C6 – If you lose, lose 2 lives.
Vampire Lord – Craft 7. If you lose roll a die. 1-3 -1 Life, 4 -2 Lives, 5 -3 Lives, 6 – Lose all followers.
Hydra – Str 8
Chimera – Str 6

Vampire Lord has a name conflict with a Dungeon card, but I like his effect. It’s unclear whether or not Skeleton Warriors stack. Undead Champion could do with a Craft equivalent, but is a nasty surpise for any lopsided characters taking on the Tower. Many of the Talisman Dragon’s cards could find a good home here.

Places

Wizards Study – If searched. 1 – Turned into Toad. 2-3 Nothing 4-6 You find the Wizards Spellbook, gain your complement of spells.
Magic Fountain – If you drink, 1 – Poison. Lose 1 life. 2-3 Nothing. 4 +1 Life. 5 +1 Str, 6 +1 Craft

Good balance of risk vs reward, though with Fate, I’d change the Study to a 5-6 for gain full spell complement and 1-2 for Toad. Getting turned into a toad in the tower could be pretty deadly, but the Tower is meant to be a challenge.
 


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#19 JCHendee

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Posted 22 June 2010 - 05:21 AM

ABOUT TIME(SCAPE)... I don't think even using it as inspiration is necessary.  Even the examples you  point out aren't really necessary, as such concepts could would and will be conceived without reference to Timescape cards.  In fact, it might be better that way to avoid carrying over the many glitches that were introduced by that expansion.  Many of its enthusiasts (though certainly not all) loved it for the very abuses/advantages you mention rather than anything it brought to the game as a whole... which was very little.  Nearly all the other cards you've inventoried, pointing ones not yet recreated, would much more widely preferred.



#20 Jake yet again

Jake yet again

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 09:35 AM

THE CITY

 

Cards marked with an asterisk were in 3E. In general 3E did a good job of streamlining some of the more unnecessarily complicated City cards, but made a hash of the city itself, removing lots of the buildings and turning it into one long street. I’ll cover the buildings and rules in another post sometime.

Events

CONSCRIPTION - Choose one: Miss three turns / Discard a follower / Bribe the recruiter with 2G / Next turn, locate another player and attack them. If you win, send them instead. (Loophole: Conscription never said what happened to you if you failed to find another character next turn)

CORRUPT SHERIFF (*) S6 (Law) - If you have a warrant or have just broken the law, the sheriff demands 3G or attempts to arrest you. If you don't have a Warrant, he charges use 1G for a made up charge. Pay 1G or fight him. If you lose, you are arrested. (2E version is somewhat tied up with the concept of Warrants, but the evade for 1G effect is a nifty idea)

CUTPURSE - Lose all your Gold. If you are the Thief, Rogue, Pirate or Space Pirate, do not lose your gold. Instead, take the Cutpurse as your follower who adds 1 to your craft. (The 3E version does not have the take him as your follower option. Personally I quite liked this, but I like “quirk” cards that abet a particular character)

DRUNKEN REVELRY - Miss a turn. Draw a card. If it is a Law card you are automatically arrested. If not roll a die for each object you possess. On a 1 it is lost. (Clever idea for a card)

EMPLOYMENT (*) - You may choose to miss your next turn and gain 3G.

FESTIVAL (*) - Close all City locations for a turn. Discard all strangers in the streets. (In 3E: You may only move one space next turn)

GAMBLER (*) - C4. If you lose discard an object (not a life). If you win, claim an object here or 2G. The Gambler remains here until he is defeated. (Should be an enemy, not an event)

HERETIC PRIEST (*) - C5. Either fight them, pay 3G or become Evil. If you lose, lose 1G and become Evil. (Should be an enemy, not an event)

HONEST DEPUTY - S7. If you have been the victim of any crime, the deputy will not arrest you and will repair any damage which has been caused to you. (Depends on how FFG decide to handle the Law in the City, as to whether this one could make a comeback)

HORSE THIEF (*) - Steals all unattended animal followers within the City. (Already in main deck, although a City specific one could make the City a little more dangerous for lovers of our four legged friends)

LOST (*) - Miss a turn. On the turn after you may move to any location or street in the City.

MARKET DAY - Until the end of your next turn, each player in the City may only move one space. (In 3E this was combined with the Festival, a good choice for 4E as it avoids the name conflicts with a potential Market Day adventure card)

MASTER THIEF (*) - S4. Sell him all your objects for 1G ach or fight him. If you lose, lose all your objects and 1 Life. If you win and are Neutral or Evil you may choose to take the Master Thief Master Level character. (In 3E, he was S6, you didn't have the sell him all your goods option and there was no alignment restriction. This is my preferred version)

PLAGUE (*) - All characters in the city must leave the City on their next turn or lose a life.

WAR - Place this card on the City Gates. All characters leaving the City must have their papers checked. Characters with Warrants are automatically captured if they try to leave the city via the Gates. (Warrants were questionable in the first place, but making characters miss a turn when they go to or leave the City is fine)

WATCH (*) - (Law) - S4, S5 x 2, S7 x 2, S8, S10, S12 (Notes: The rules for the Law in 2E were a mess. 3E was far simpler, as it only had a couple of Law encounters, but you had to fight them unless you were the Sheriff or the King’s Champion)

CARD GAME (3E only) – You may gamble. 1 – Lose everything, 2 – Lose all your gold, 3-4 +1G, 5 - +1G, 6 – x2G. (Notes: The Big Money Card Game from the Seven Fates Inn on a card. Far less abusive than seven fates, and a lot better on a card IMO)

Enemies

AIR ELEMENTAL – C5. If you lose, lose a life, it blows you to a Fields space of your choice outside the city Gates. (Unlike the other elementals this one works in the City – if you are using Warrants – as it provides an escape route)

BRAVO – S4. If you lose, lose 1G and 1 Life. If you win gain 1G.

CITY RAT (*) S3. Oddly, not an animal in 2E.

DOG PACK S3 – Animal. Attacked by d6 dogs. If you lose, lose a life or a follower. All of the dogs must be defeated. (They don’t stack in 2E, but might lead to rules questions unless this was specifically stated in 4E. I think giving them lives might work better)

DRUNKEN SOLDIER (*) – S3

EARTH ELEMENTAL – C5. If you lose it drags you to the first space in the dungeon. (In Dungeon set already, don’t think we need this one in the City)

FIRE ELEMENTAL – C5. If you lose, lose 1 life and all your non-magical objects. (All your objects – Ouch! By comparison the Water Elemental only kills one follower. Works better as a plain adventure card)

GHOUL – C5. The Ghoul may take this enemy as a follower instead. It will fight in his place for one Psychic combat. (Notes: I like the Ghoul may nick him effect)

GIANT FLY (*) – S2 Animal

GREMLIN – C4. If you lose, don’t lose a life but put one of your objects in a city street. Keep fighting til you run out of objects or you stand off / defeat the Gremlin. (Overly complex. Teleporting one Object would have been sufficient)

MILITIA MAN – S4.

MUMMY – C4. Lose 1 Str / turn til you visit the Doctors Surgery. (Name Conflict. Effect is awkward, loseing 1S and 1C would be far less intensive on bookkeeping)

PRESS GANG (*) – S4. If you lose, lose a life and move to the Wharf. In 2E the Press Gang moved to an adjacent street. In 3E, they don’t. (3E is better, they don’t need to move)

THUG (*) – S4. If you lose, lose 1 Object. Objects can only be claimed once the Thug has been defeated.

WATER ELEMENTAL (*) – C5. If you lose, lose one follower as well. (Probably better as a normal adventure card)

Strangers

BAKER (*) – Buy a doughnut for 2G. Remains.

BARTERER (*) – Swap one object for another one of you choice in the purchase deck. Remains.

BEGGAR (*) – If you pay 1G, roll a die on a 6 you may become the King’s Champion. Discard.

BUTCHER – Buy dragon bones for 2G. Remains.

GRIFTER – Must roll d6. 1 No Loss. 2 Lose 1G. 3 Lose 2G, 4 Lose 1 Object, 5 Lose 1 Follower, 6 – Win ½ gold and objects here. Remains.

GRUMPY WIZARD – Teleports you (You don’t get a choice) Go to 1: CITY GATE, 2: CRAGS, 3:FOREST, 4: CHASM, 5: CURSED GLADE, 6: VILLAGE. Discard.

SALESMAN (*) – Pay 1G per follower or lose them to the discard pile. Remains.

STREET SAGE – If you want pay 1G. Roll. 1 – Look at top three cards of one deck. 2: +1 Craft. 3: Move to a city Space of your choice. 4: +1 Life, 5: Lose all gold, 6: -1 Craft.

With the exception of the Barterer, I have no issue with these cards. Fate helps ameliorate some of the worst excesses and may mean that we actually see the King’s Champion once in a while. The Barterer is intensive abusive, consistently swapping away Plate Mail and Warhorses for Water Bottles and Helmets. A reworked version that handled out the next object in the Adventure deck would be a lot more interesting.

Objects

BAG OF GOLD (*)

BROKEN HELMET – Can be repaired for 1G. (Notes: Filler at best, usually ended up being sold for gold at the alchemist in our games)

DAMAGED ARMOUR – Can be repaired for 1G. (Notes: A far better deal than Broken Helmet. This one is actually worth lugging to the Armoury)

MONEY BELT – Neither the belt nor your gold may be stolen from you, except by magical means.

STILLETTO – Weapon, +1S in combat, unless your opponent is wielding a Sword. (Notes: Usually +1S, but a minor adventure for any adventure wielding a sword. Not enough to sway me from buying the Axe though)

Followers

DANCING GIRL (*) – Discard to space to automatically evade one enemy or character. (Notes: Great card)

DOG – S2. Frightens off Animal enemies on 4+, but if it does not fight them off will automatically try to fight them. (Notes: Doesn’t need the frightens animals text)

DRAGON MASTER – Give him a magic object (which you may still use) to take him as your follower. If you lose that object, you lose him as a follower. The Dragon Master can enslave any Dragons you encounter. An enslaved dragon may be ridden for up to 4 spaces you may only take the Dragon Master and your carried objects with you. (Notes: Benefit depends on number of Dragons in the deck. Far too complicated for a fairly limited effect for my liking)

DRUID – Wants to leave the city. Will allow you to auto-evade all animlas. Will not follow you back into the City, Dungeon or Timescape. (Hopefully he’ll be found in the forest in 4E)

ERRAND BOY (*) – Bring any non-place adventure cards within 2 spaces of you to your current location, if you want. (In 3E was called “Urchin”, his range was one space, he could only collect objects and followers and he was discarded after a single use. On balance I prefer the 2E name but the 3E function)

GAMEKEEPER – Capture one animal you encounter. In the next combat you face it will add it’s strength to yours. Reusable. (The 3E version was Royal Zoo-Keeper and could be discarded to evade one animal.) Notes: If he wasn’t reusable he’d be fine. It’s his reusability that devalues the Minstrel.

URCHIN – Grants you immunity to the Horse Thief event. Will not leave the City. Notes: Don’t have a problem with him leaving the city. Almost every fantasy film of the 80s had a chipper little kid to appeal to the nippers and help sell happy meals.

Places

DUNGEON DOOR – May use the door to move to the dungeon. (Another escape route from the City / Dungeon)

LIBRARY (2E) – May roll d6. 1 – Lose follower. 2 – Miss a turn. 3 – Lose a spell. 4 – Lose 1 Craft. 5 - +1 Spell, 6 - +1 Craft.

LIBRARY (3E) – Pay 2G. Name a spell. Search the spell deck for that spell, reveal it to everyone and take it in your hand.

Notes: IMO 2E is better cos I’d prefer to see the Mage Guild back for buying spells.

SIDE SHOW (*) – Lose 1 follower. (3E name was Circus. I think in 4E this is now an adventure card)

WISHING WELL – May pay 1G. If so roll d6. 1-4 No effect. 5+ Gain either 1 Craft, Life, Strength or a Spell.
 


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