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New Deathwatch Designer Diary: Search and Destroy


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#1 FFG Ross Watson

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 05:50 AM

Greetings, Deathwatch fans!

This week, I have a guest designer diary from Owen Barnes about Missions, a framework for adventures in the Deathwatch RPG.



#2 Ishmael Lok

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 06:15 AM

Sounds great.  I feel the mission system will add a good militaristic flavor to the kill-team games and really like the idea of the Objectives and Complications.

The oath system sounds interesting and I like the idea of it adding player induced complications to the mission by possibily running contrary to potential decisions they are forced to make on the ground.

Looking forward to learning more. 



#3 Cardinal Nicodemus

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 06:16 AM

Can you actually say something about it? This is pretty vague. Should have at least gave an example of  everything presented.



#4 Atheosis

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 08:41 AM

Cardinal Nicodemus said:

Can you actually say something about it? This is pretty vague. Should have at least gave an example of  everything presented.

Yes it was very vague...



#5 Kage2020

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 11:54 AM

I'm not saying that it is a bad thing, since the whole Primary and Secondary (etc.) Mission is a part of the whole military genre.  On the other hand, the rest sounds pretty... video game again.  On the other hand, if they are guidelines rather than customisable bolt-ons then that's great, solid advice. 

Kage



#6 J-Tech

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 01:14 PM

"Hai gaiz,
Buy Deathwatch becuz it haz cool stuffs in its. Mishuns and objektives.
It's cool."

 

 



#7 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 03:55 PM

Yes, we're quite sick of really vague Designer Diaries.

Still, this was fine as it did actually tell us something. We have a few more mechanics now - Missions, Objectives, Complications and Oaths. And as time goes on I'm sure the Project Iceberg NDA's will allow for some detail to be given.

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#8 kenshin138

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 07:01 PM

 I can't go into specifics for obvious reasons; but I can comment on this a bit.

The Missions portion of Deathwatch is done very well IMHO. I was the GM for a play test group and I felt the system was very easy to create "adventures" for the team with. They will be especially  helpful for newer GM's as it provides a nice structured method for making your group "do stuff". I will say that this system is mostly fluff and role play, rather than lots of mechanics and dice rolling.

Its simple and gets the job done. It will be very easy for people to expand on if desired and offers a great basic framework for your adventure/mission/scenario/etc.



#9 H.B.M.C.

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Posted 21 May 2010 - 11:45 PM

As much as I want to find out about Missions, Oaths, Objectives and even the new Adversaries and Weapons, there's one thing above all else that I want to know.

Whom do you serve?

In Dark Heresy this is obvious - you're either an Acolyte or a Throne agent of an Inquisitor (and sometimes the Inquisitor himself, but often there are still Inquisitor's above even you). You're either working on something because you've been ordered to, or because you want to investigate something. In Rogue Trader it was also obvious - you're out there in the unknown territories as a Rogue Trader (or his crew) finding new paths through the Warp, new Trade Routes, and trying to get MOAR MONEY!!!2

But in Deathwatch are you... serving a higher DW Marine? The Ordo Xenos? Do the Ordo Xenos play any significant role in this (I hope they do, DW are kind've their Chamber Militant)?

So, what's the framing structure here? Whom do you serve?

BYE


Matt Eustace. Contributing Author Credits: Church of the Damned, The Lathe Worlds, The Lathe Worlds - The Lost Dataslate, Only War Core Rulebook, Hammer of the Emperor, Shield of Humanity, Tome of Fate, Tome of Blood, Tome of Excess and Tome of Decay.

The views expressed in this post are my own. I do not speak for or on behalf of Fantasy Flight Games.


#10 Kage2020

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 07:08 AM

kenshin138 said >>>

...I felt the system was very easy to create "adventures" for the team with.

It's horrible when all you can do is read context into the comments of people, but in this case the use of quotation marks might be considered... Well, it seems to imply that rather than advice and guidelines on how to structure a scenario, it's more in the way of mechanics for "rolling up" a scenario.  Maybe a variation on the "encounter" mechanics from old-style D&D.  (I use "old style" since I'm not familiar with the latest editions, so this may no longer be included.)

Again, that's a lot to read into the use of quotation marks but... Well, coupled with the "nice structured method for making your group 'do stuff'," it does tend to imply something.  Maybe we're dealing with a "flowchart mission creator?"  

Again, not saying that it is a bad thing.  Maybe it will give a feel akin to the old Space Hulk video game (which I loved and would love to see a modified version of produced using modern technology), or the Space Hulk boardgame or cardgame?

Kage



#11 Lord Richter Castus

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 07:20 AM

Maybe it's just the way I inferred it, but his use of quotations around the word "adventures" could very well be that Space Marines don't go on adventures in the archetypical fashion one sees when talking about RPG's. These are supersoldiers on a mission afterall, not a band of treasure hunting heroes questing across the land in search of a mystical pendant. Again, this is just my own inference on the quoted word "adventures". Also, as far as I remember, the "encounter" mechanics in D&D were really just a guideline for sending appropriately challenging(ie:not necessarily TPK material, but not something the party steamrolls, either), well, encounters and the proper rewards gleaned from them. We'll just have to wait and see what comes next, and how integral the "Missions" rules are.



#12 Kage2020

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 07:50 AM

Lord Richter Castus said >>>

Maybe it's just the way I inferred it, but his use of quotations around the word "adventures" could very well be that Space Marines don't go on adventures in the archetypical fashion one sees when talking about RPG's.

Good call that person!

That's certainly another alternate interpretation just as, for example, "adventure" is a stand-in for "mission."  With that said, I'm not sure that the "archetypal adventure" is a "band of treasure hunting heroes questing across the land in search of a mystical pendant."   (Although GURPS has an sub-line dedicated to this style of game: Dungeon Fantasy!)

With the rest of the commentary, though?  I'm not so sure.  I eagerly await more information or the final product. 

Kage



#13 Adam France

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 01:49 PM

Kage2020 said:

kenshin138 said >>>

...I felt the system was very easy to create "adventures" for the team with.

It's horrible when all you can do is read context into the comments of people, but in this case the use of quotation marks might be considered... Well, it seems to imply that rather than advice and guidelines on how to structure a scenario, it's more in the way of mechanics for "rolling up" a scenario.  Maybe a variation on the "encounter" mechanics from old-style D&D.  (I use "old style" since I'm not familiar with the latest editions, so this may no longer be included.)

Again, that's a lot to read into the use of quotation marks but... Well, coupled with the "nice structured method for making your group 'do stuff'," it does tend to imply something.  Maybe we're dealing with a "flowchart mission creator?"  

Again, not saying that it is a bad thing.  Maybe it will give a feel akin to the old Space Hulk video game (which I loved and would love to see a modified version of produced using modern technology), or the Space Hulk boardgame or cardgame?

Kage

Is it just me ... or does that sound awful?

No offence Kage old man, but I hope you're wrong with that speculation. 



#14 Kage2020

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 03:32 PM

Adam France said:

No offence Kage old man, but I hope you're wrong with that speculation. 

Which bit?  

There is, after all, a certain amount of "turning that frown upside down" going on here... 

Kage



#15 kenshin138

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 08:17 PM

Lord Richter Castus said:

Maybe it's just the way I inferred it, but his use of quotations around the word "adventures" could very well be that Space Marines don't go on adventures in the archetypical fashion one sees when talking about RPG's. These are supersoldiers on a mission afterall, not a band of treasure hunting heroes questing across the land in search of a mystical pendant. Again, this is just my own inference on the quoted word "adventures". Also, as far as I remember, the "encounter" mechanics in D&D were really just a guideline for sending appropriately challenging(ie:not necessarily TPK material, but not something the party steamrolls, either), well, encounters and the proper rewards gleaned from them. We'll just have to wait and see what comes next, and how integral the "Missions" rules are.

Sorry if it threw people off; but as said my intent was that Astartes don't really go on "adventures". I was trying to avoid using the word mission over and over again, nothing more.

As far as the ref. to the original space hulk game, unrelated to the Missions discussion, but I did use the term "we are the mailed fist of the Emperor" in the first DW mission I did in the play test. That was a quote I remember from the PC Space Hulk game that I loved so I threw it in. :)

Hopefully not going farther than I am allowed, but basically the Mission system lets you build an outline for the mission itself. Its an arbitrary system so doesn't use dice or anything really. Once that outline is built the GM can flesh it out. Its very much traditional adventure creation just with a nice way of presenting itself. It is pretty rules-light and easy to understand. It is however a core mechanic/system of the game and several other things key off of it. Can't go into anymore detail there though.



#16 Adam France

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Posted 22 May 2010 - 09:29 PM

Adam France said:

Kage2020 said:

 

kenshin138 said >>>

...I felt the system was very easy to create "adventures" for the team with.

It's horrible when all you can do is read context into the comments of people, but in this case the use of quotation marks might be considered... Well, it seems to imply that rather than advice and guidelines on how to structure a scenario, it's more in the way of mechanics for "rolling up" a scenario.  Maybe a variation on the "encounter" mechanics from old-style D&D.  (I use "old style" since I'm not familiar with the latest editions, so this may no longer be included.)

Again, that's a lot to read into the use of quotation marks but... Well, coupled with the "nice structured method for making your group 'do stuff'," it does tend to imply something.  Maybe we're dealing with a "flowchart mission creator?"  

Again, not saying that it is a bad thing.  Maybe it will give a feel akin to the old Space Hulk video game (which I loved and would love to see a modified version of produced using modern technology), or the Space Hulk boardgame or cardgame?

Kage

 

 

Is it just me ... or does that sound awful?

No offence Kage old man, but I hope you're wrong with that speculation. 

Rolling up adventures from a flowchart mission creator, that creates a feel akin to a shoot-em-up video game or card game.

 

 



#17 Kage2020

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 04:36 AM

kenshin138 said:

Hopefully not going farther than I am allowed, but basically the Mission system lets you build an outline for the mission itself. Its an arbitrary system so doesn't use dice or anything really. Once that outline is built the GM can flesh it out. Its very much traditional adventure creation just with a nice way of presenting itself. It is pretty rules-light and easy to understand. It is however a core mechanic/system of the game and several other things key off of it. Can't go into anymore detail there though.

Which makes it sound more like genre advice than anything else, which seems eminently more reasonableand perhaps less worrisome to Adam Francethan a "mission generator" that involves random rolls determining the nature of the mission involved.  Since this was an informative response, you probably just went beyond the NDA, kenshin138. 

Kage



#18 Morangias

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 04:53 AM

I don't want to sound offensive, but... seriously, people. It's supposed to be a game about elite "black ops" super-soldiers kicking butt in the name of the Emperor. So how is it either surprising or inappropriate that the game employs a mission system for tracking objectives?


There is no truth in flesh, only betrayal.

There is no strenght in flesh, only weakness.
There is no constancy in flesh, only decay.
There is no certainty in flesh but death.


#19 Kage2020

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 07:38 AM

Errr... I think that you'll see the "resistance," insofar as it is resistance, is to the premise of an "adventure creator."  While not inherently bad (giving it the flavour of, say, Space Hulk), kenshin138 seems to have cleared it up, suggesting that it is very appropriate genre advice.  As it stood, the Designer's Diary began to sound like it was setting up Deathwatch to be some form of interim game that encouraged, say, the introduction of "mission cards," "Team Mode cards," etc.  Again, not inherently a bad thing but...

So, seriously, I think that everything should be taken with a pinch of salt.  It is, after all, a discussion board.  Please also note that most people seem to be looking forward to it, even those that aren't going to be using the system. 

Kage



#20 Adam France

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Posted 23 May 2010 - 08:45 AM

I was just going to not really comment, but in the spirit of honesty I can say personally, at this time, I'm not particularly stoked about this game. I don't know enough really yet to say I won't buy it - I'm interested in the fluff for the DW itself for example, and I hope the Jericho Reach is better than it sounds in the DD and has some setting stuff I can use. However rules wise and the limited sounding nature of several aspects of the game, judging only of course on the DDs released to date, I'm totally underwhelmed by the whole thing.

Btw, I'm getting niggled by the fact the DDs only show members of 'the Paltry 6' Chapters. The DW is not limited to those Chapters, even if the game itself is. I don't see why some other Chapters couldn't be shown in the art. Small point, just saying is all.






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