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The Last 40K RPG?


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#1 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 08:25 AM

I know originally Deathwatch was suppose to be the third of three separate RPG settings/core rules for 40K RPG games. But do you think FFG may make additional settings/Core books?

I would love to have an official "real" Necromunda style RPG book. Not just homebrew and house ruled.

What others could exist or would you like to see after Deathwatch?



#2 GrimZiek

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 09:56 AM

Necromunda always reminded me of Shadowrun or the GURPs Cyberpunk. If there was one that would be a good choice. There was someone on the boards always about playing a Commissar.

 

 



#3 Kage2020

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 10:35 AM

On my behalf, the interesting thing about the publication of Deathwatch is that it completes the varying "power levels" of the game, the absence of which was rightly or wrongly decried in the earlier games.  This to me suggests that it would be possible to fully explore different aspects of the 40k universe by referencing the published games...

...Of course, that gets you into the territory that you have to own all three games to play anything that is not directly related to one "power level" or another.  Well, unless you see "Dark Heresy: Necromunda" (underhive scum), "Rogue Trader: Necromunda" (upperspire nobles), and "Deathwatch: Necromunda" (Mareenz kick everyone's derriere). 

More seriously, though, I really would like to see more explorations of the 40k universe.  The Adeptus Mechanicus, for example, have been woefully under-explored in the universe in general, and the 40k RPG line hasn't really gone that much beyond that.  Such a book wouldn't have to be a 400-page full-colour, sell-your-soul-to-the-devil-to-get-hold-off book.  It could be half that size.  Something specifically dedicated to what is to many one of the more fascinating organisations.

The only problem with all of this is that the tripartite division of systems means that it's more complex to envisage a defined series of exploration of the setting without making it somewhat artificial.  It's still possible, though.  Heh.  Who knows, perhaps a "core book" will be released that contains all the rules from the two settings (there isn't a huge amount of difference between them) and which will allow more ready exploration of the setting in general.

Kage



#4 Kaihlik

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 11:07 AM

IIRC the licence to produce Necromunda material is seperate from 40k material. I remember reading an interview where someone said that they were going to add in references to Necromunda but they had to take them out because the license was seperate, all they were allowed to keep were the name of talents which match necromunda ones.

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#5 Kage2020

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 01:08 PM

DH/RT/DW: Hiveworld?  

DH/RT/DW: Sepherus Secundus? (Or however you spell it.)

Kage



#6 blackwell

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 01:49 PM

I agree with Kage about exploring the various other factions that make up the warhammer 40,000 universe particularly i'd like to see something that focuses on the various alien factions however it might be a challenge pulling off a genestealer cult and practically impossible with the tyranids and the necrons. Additionally I believe it would be interesting to see a book that allowed you to play as a fully fledged chaos mutant/cultist/traitor or dark mechanicus from the start which could serve as an interesting counterpoint to DH and Ascension.

 



#7 Arag

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 02:56 PM

What I would love to see after Deathwatch?

 

At least one military book which would include information on the Imperial Guard and it's enemies. Rules for Calixis Sector regiments and stuff like stats for Ogryn, Ratlings and Vehicles. Plus info on battles (sieges, open engagements, guerilla actions etc.) and more info on typical raiders (Dark Eldar, Eldar, Orks etc.)

A book detailing the Adeptus Mechanicus, with around 14 Forge Worlds in the Calixis Sector and Explorator Fleets going to the Koronus Expanse the setting has enough stuff to get covered in such a book. I would love to see more info on servitors, the Skitarii tech-guard, explorator ships (the Battlefleet Gothic figures look really great). Because right now the Adeptus Mechnicus isn't fleshed out as it could be.

A decent book about the byzantine system called the Administratum. The bureaucracy of the imperium could be a great enemy for all three groups, all in a different way (because nothing is more effective than Red Tape®). Additionaly I could see a lot of info on Law and Arbites here.

A similar book but about Faith, especially the Calixian Diocese, the ways used by the Ministorum to preach to the masses and a shipload of info on the Sisters of Battle.

 

While it would be hard to make books that encompass all three systems I see two system books as doable. But unlikely since the systems have all separate designers.

 



#8 Atheosis

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 04:11 PM

blackwell said:

I agree with Kage about exploring the various other factions that make up the warhammer 40,000 universe particularly i'd like to see something that focuses on the various alien factions however it might be a challenge pulling off a genestealer cult and practically impossible with the tyranids and the necrons. Additionally I believe it would be interesting to see a book that allowed you to play as a fully fledged chaos mutant/cultist/traitor or dark mechanicus from the start which could serve as an interesting counterpoint to DH and Ascension.

 

Aliens in 40k aren't Star Trek aliens.  They aren't humans with some weird **** on their foreheads.  They are true aliens, and that means that their psychology is very different from ours.  40k aliens do not make good characters for a roleplaying game in my opinion.



#9 Kage2020

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 04:50 PM

Blackwell >>>
I agree with Kage about exploring the various other factions that make up the warhammer 40,000 universe...
 
Of course, the thing that is going to cause a problem there is that the more generic that FFG try and make things, the more likely that they are going to be standing on the toes of GW, or essentially making the RPG side of things make the wargame/whatever side of things dance to their tune.  Not sure how likely that is going to be, though it is worthy noting that FFG have been given "complete" freedom to develop the Deathwatch as an organisation of the Imperium and the Inquisition.  (This is actually another one of those things that I'm looking forward to with the systemjust what do they do with this freedom?)
 
Blackwell >>>
...however it might be a challenge pulling off a genestealer cult and practically impossible with the tyranids and the necrons...
 
Well, I would tend to agree with you about the... No, I think that you might quite well be able to play an RT/DW-level Tyranid and Necron.  Genestealers would allow you to go from tough DH up to DW. 
 
Blackwell >>>
Additionally I believe it would be interesting to see a book that allowed you to play as a fully fledged chaos mutant/cultist/traitor or dark mechanicus from the start which could serve as an interesting counterpoint to DH and Ascension.
 
Oooh.  A Chaos Sourcebook.  I hadn't really thought about that.    Thumbs-up from me, or at least strangely clapping one that has a sense of "well done," but could equally be taken as patronising.  Rest assured that it is the first one!
 
Kage

 



#10 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 06:01 PM

Some interesting replies.

I think FFG could do far worse then the release a "Core Core Book" the biggest flaw or obstacle would be careers, as each "game" thus far has totally different careers. However, a few generics would work (as I said a few years back when DH first came out, the D20 modern basic careers of Strong, Smart, Tough, Fast and so forth careers) with sub notes of how each of these new careers work in each game (for example, as rank 1"alternate career ranks" for DH, as part of the origin path for RT and whatever for however DW works).

After that 40K Core Sourcebooks. The Xeno Codex with critters, gear, adventures, worlds and info that work for all three games. The Imperial Armoury full of gear for all three games. The Index Calixis as a setting guide and so forth.

As for the Necromunda game, I see two options. Either A) a really cool sourcebook for Dark Heresy that totally fluffs out one of the sucky hives in the Calixis Sector (Gun Metal City perhaps, or Volg) which presents some ideas and rules for cults, gangs, noble familes and other Necromunda type themes of B) with 40K RPG material from FFG selling so well, they may be able to get Necromunda rights when the renegotiation of the terms of the license comes up.

Sorry, while not really well written, having finished the Kal Jerico trilogy of Necromunda Novels, it just sounds like a good 40K setting. Campy, sci-fi, fun.



#11 UncleArkie

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 09:41 PM

Peacekeeper_b said:

Sorry, while not really well written, having finished the Kal Jerico trilogy of Necromunda Novels, it just sounds like a good 40K setting. Campy, sci-fi, fun.

And lets face it, you can never have enough of that.



#12 Lightbringer

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 10:09 PM

White Wolf used to have three principle game settings (Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, er...Changling four principle settings......er...Wraith...er...five principle game settings) with major core books, but they'd also bolt on additional settings within those major settings like Hunter (er...six principle settings) Kindred of the East, Kindred of Africa, Mummy etc etc.

My point is that you can have alternate setting sourcebooks that don't actually amount to new core rulebooks. They could use the DH core rules, but have the players operating outside the remit of the Inquisition.

You could - as has already been suggested - have a Imperial Guard/Imperial military sourcebook;  a big, Inquisitor's Handbook sized book with tons of background and setting material for the Imperial Guard: Abhumans, Commissars, officers, combat psykers, vehicles, intelligence, specialist regiments etc etc. I reckon such a book would actually gel quite well with the new Jericho Reach Crusade, or alternatively you could set it in the Margin Crusade and stock it with Calixian Regiments.   

Or you could do a detailed Adeptus Arbites sourcebook sandboxed to an incredibly detailed hive city setting. Imagine that: five or six different types of Arbites basic career, alternate ranks, ascended careers... Plus dozens of pages and maps going into the major characters, crime cartels and organisations of a lovingly fleshed out Calixian Hive World. Plus of course new Arbites weapons, vehicles etc etc.

 The point of these books would be to offer new ways to play DH. You could choose to play as an Arbites Kill team or Imperial Guard special forces squad without having to be tied to the traditional Inquisitorial setup. You wouldn't necessarily NEED a new 40k RPG, you could have new settings and background that effectively replicate the same thing without the core rules.  



#13 TorogTarkdacil

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 10:59 PM

I have a dream for what could be 4th WH40kRPG. Lost and Damned.  Remember all that cool stuff about living on Chaosy worlds and serving Ruinous Powers from Gaunt´s Ghosts, Grey Knights, Daemonworld, Word Bearers and many other novels? I know that you can houserule it for current games, but dedicated RPG with ability of being Dark Mechanicus, Sorcerer or Renegade Psyker, Magus, Infiltrator, Chaos Corsair, while originating from Daemonworld, Insurgent World, Chaos Forge, or Fallen Bloodline. Getting the true powers, sorceries, gifts and mutations by worshiping the Chaos Undivided, Khorne, Tzeench, Nurgle, Slaanesh, Malal... ehm Malice, or even serving the Chaos Legions themselves with greater goal of destabilising the Imperium and eternal struggle between free will Chaos offers to you and eternal servitude you can slip into..



#14 Sister Cat

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Posted 10 May 2010 - 11:19 PM

Lightbringer said:

My point is that you can have alternate setting sourcebooks that don't actually amount to new core rulebooks. They could use the DH core rules, but have the players operating outside the remit of the Inquisition.

You could - as has already been suggested - have a Imperial Guard/Imperial military sourcebook;  a big, Inquisitor's Handbook sized book with tons of background and setting material for the Imperial Guard: Abhumans, Commissars, officers, combat psykers, vehicles, intelligence, specialist regiments etc etc. I reckon such a book would actually gel quite well with the new Jericho Reach Crusade, or alternatively you could set it in the Margin Crusade and stock it with Calixian Regiments.   

Or you could do a detailed Adeptus Arbites sourcebook sandboxed to an incredibly detailed hive city setting. Imagine that: five or six different types of Arbites basic career, alternate ranks, ascended careers... Plus dozens of pages and maps going into the major characters, crime cartels and organisations of a lovingly fleshed out Calixian Hive World. Plus of course new Arbites weapons, vehicles etc etc.

 The point of these books would be to offer new ways to play DH. You could choose to play as an Arbites Kill team or Imperial Guard special forces squad without having to be tied to the traditional Inquisitorial setup. You wouldn't necessarily NEED a new 40k RPG, you could have new settings and background that effectively replicate the same thing without the core rules.  

Yes, yes, I'll have all of that, along with a big helping of Mechanicus, if you please.    Oh, and I wouldn't be averse to the chaos-y side, either.



#15 miles1739

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 12:49 AM

I would love an  imperial guard book or maybe a "era" book covering something like the horus heresy.Having a aliens book would also be a must have in my eyes.



#16 pvhammer

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 09:24 AM

Amen Brother!

 



#17 Kage2020

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 12:18 PM

Atheosis >>>

Aliens in 40k aren't Star Trek aliens. They aren't humans with some weird **** on their foreheads. They are true aliens, and that means that their psychology is very different from ours. 40k aliens do not make good characters for a roleplaying game in my opinion.

This is another one of those topics that are going to polarise the hobbyist community as much as Marines... or Eldar.  

On my behalf?  I disagree with you.  Not disrespectfully, though.  What I would rather suggest is that the 40k aliens aren't really that different from the Star Trek ones, though, beyond the fact that I'm sure that Gene Roddenberry is not kicking himself (err, from the grave) about not hiring GW artists and writers (believe it or not).  They do a very good job of creating some cool imagery and writing some text that vaguely talks about how alien they are without actually telling you how alienor not alienthey actually are.

If you look at the literature, though, it's not about being truly alien but being believably alien.  It often seems about being presented with what is described as an alien culture, and then being able to see familiarity in itonly to be baffled when they do something crazy (as determined by the plot).  The thing is, you can find examples of this kind of culture in the real world if you're willing to look at the type of norms that might be defined as Western gaming culture.  Delve into anthropology.  You will see how human beings with a whole slew of different mores, ideologies, metaphysical paradigms etc., will be as alien to you as a... well, whatever race you to see that is attempted to written up as anything other than a plot device.  

As a plot device aliens can be "alien" because you only have to justify whatever crazy action they're going to make.  As a PC race, they just have to believably described such that the PC can have some cultural context that extends beyond just a body to be placed in the cross-hairs.  Even though foreknowledge is kind of expected, we see this kind of "cross-hair" alien in Creatures Anathema and, forgive me, perhaps even things like Lure of the Expanse.

As always, though, YMMV.

Peacekeeper_b >>>

I think FFG could do far worse then the release a "Core Core Book" the biggest flaw or obstacle would be careers, as each "game" thus far has totally different careers.

Couldn't this be achieved with just playing a mathematical game?  Different "tier" points working on a different ratio?  Or just refer to the power levels as something discrete rather than encompassed by a different system?  x,000 points for Dark Heresy, 10,000-n,000 points for Rogue Trader, etc.

Peacekeeper_b >>>

However, a few generics would work (as I said a few years back when DH first came out, the D20 modern basic careers of Strong, Smart, Tough, Fast and so forth careers) with sub notes of how each of these new careers work in each game (for example, as rank 1"alternate career ranks" for DH, as part of the origin path for RT and whatever for however DW works).

That's one of the interesting things that I liked about skrittibak's (sp.) interpretation of 40k RPG.  Even more flexible than Dark Heresy Career Paths even though they are inherently based upon the same mechanic.  (It's where, for me, Dark Heresy gets into some interesting narrativism.)

Peacekeeper_b >>>

After that 40K Core Sourcebooks. The Xeno Codex with critters, gear, adventures, worlds and info that work for all three games. The Imperial Armoury full of gear for all three games. The Index Calixis as a setting guide and so forth.

I think that you might have Adam France drooling over you and wondering if you want to propose now, Peacekeeper_b! 

Peacekeeper_b >>>

Sorry, while not really well written, having finished the Kal Jerico trilogy of Necromunda Novels, it just sounds like a good 40K setting. Campy, sci-fi, fun.

Is there a way of talking about such things generically?  After all, hiveworlds have some shared imagery even before you go beyond the "every world is unique" thing as applied.

Kage



#18 blackwell

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Posted 11 May 2010 - 12:52 PM

Some other imperial organisations that I believe could also be potentially explored in greater detail could also include the Ecclesiarchy as well as the various imperial subcults such as the redemptionists and quite possible the Imperial Navy too. 



#19 Illithidelderbrain

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 05:00 AM

Lightbringer said:

White Wolf used to have three principle game settings (Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, er...Changling four principle settings......er...Wraith...er...five principle game settings) with major core books, but they'd also bolt on additional settings within those major settings like Hunter (er...six principle settings) Kindred of the East, Kindred of Africa, Mummy etc etc.

My point is that you can have alternate setting sourcebooks that don't actually amount to new core rulebooks. They could use the DH core rules, but have the players operating outside the remit of the Inquisition.

 

 The biggest offender ever was/is the Rifts setting. Each splatbook presented at least two or three new RCC/OCC's. After a while I got tired of trying to collect and keep up with them and dropped the whole game.



#20 Peacekeeper_b

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Posted 12 May 2010 - 10:17 PM

Illithidelderbrain said:

Lightbringer said:

 

White Wolf used to have three principle game settings (Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, er...Changling four principle settings......er...Wraith...er...five principle game settings) with major core books, but they'd also bolt on additional settings within those major settings like Hunter (er...six principle settings) Kindred of the East, Kindred of Africa, Mummy etc etc.

My point is that you can have alternate setting sourcebooks that don't actually amount to new core rulebooks. They could use the DH core rules, but have the players operating outside the remit of the Inquisition.

 

 

 

 The biggest offender ever was/is the Rifts setting. Each splatbook presented at least two or three new RCC/OCC's. After a while I got tired of trying to collect and keep up with them and dropped the whole game.

I agree. I hope Dark Heresy releases a Character Compendium in the future much like the real WFRP (2E) did with the Career Compendium.






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