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Where are the New Lore and Command Cards?


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#1 Quizoid

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 01:26 PM

 [see topic]

 

The rules even say how to handle having more of them, and I kind of expected at least one or two of each (especially Lore) cards in every expansion.  I haven't been tracking rumors closely, and I don't have all the expansions, so maybe I'm missing some.  Is there any word on spicing up the Command or Lore decks?



#2 kilrah

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Posted 18 December 2008 - 10:47 PM

Rumors about new lore decks, but nothing else. There weren't any in any expansion so far.



#3 Caboose

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 02:21 AM

I doubt there will be any new command cards.  The command deck seems to be very well balanced.  And there have been no rumors stating otherwise about new cards either.

As for Lore cards, Richard has mentioned there are new ones but so far, as kilrah has mentioned, there has been no expansion that has released any new Lore cards.   I wouldn't be surprised if there are some in the Heroes expansion though (just an opinion of mine..have no foundation for it).

Cab



#4 ColtsFan76

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Posted 19 December 2008 - 11:04 AM

I would very much doubt there are new Command Cards as well.  With all the C&C games, the decks have been fairly consistent and have a good mix of section and tactic cards.

The only new Command cards that might come out might have to do with flying creatures a la Memoir 44 and their Air Sortie cards.  But this is pure specualtion as I think Dragons should be handled like the planes in Memoir.  That way they are a bit more rare in game usage but can have a significant impact when present.

As far as Lore cards, I am fairly certain there are more coming for each of the 4 Lore Masters that we have.  Apparently DOW was given a set of so many and they selected the 15 that we have now.  that is why there isn't necessarily a balance between Lore decks right now (setting aside obvious "power" issues, the Cleric seems to have more level dependent spells compared tot he warrior for example).

I also assume we might see additional Lore Masters with their own specific deck.  We still need to see what this guest spot is all about.



#5 Quizoid

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 11:54 AM

ColtsFan76 said:

I would very much doubt there are new Command Cards as well.  With all the C&C games, the decks have been fairly consistent and have a good mix of section and tactic cards.

The only new Command cards that might come out might have to do with flying creatures a la Memoir 44 and their Air Sortie cards.  But this is pure specualtion as I think Dragons should be handled like the planes in Memoir.  That way they are a bit more rare in game usage but can have a significant impact when present.

As far as Lore cards, I am fairly certain there are more coming for each of the 4 Lore Masters that we have.  Apparently DOW was given a set of so many and they selected the 15 that we have now.  that is why there isn't necessarily a balance between Lore decks right now (setting aside obvious "power" issues, the Cleric seems to have more level dependent spells compared tot he warrior for example).

I also assume we might see additional Lore Masters with their own specific deck.  We still need to see what this guest spot is all about.

 

My guess is that the guest spot will relate to the Heroes (an perhaps further features)... just a guess though.  



#6 Noir_fleuri

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 09:23 PM

New lore cards are indeed needed, because the balance is so badly broken. Compared to the clerics level and terrain dependant cards, the warrior is virtually useless. I've ended up using medieval lore rules with all the cards. It helps a bit.



#7 Quizoid

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 05:03 AM

ColtsFan76 said:

I would very much doubt there are new Command Cards as well.  With all the C&C games, the decks have been fairly consistent and have a good mix of section and tactic cards.

The only new Command cards that might come out might have to do with flying creatures a la Memoir 44 and their Air Sortie cards.  But this is pure specualtion as I think Dragons should be handled like the planes in Memoir.  That way they are a bit more rare in game usage but can have a significant impact when present.

As far as Lore cards, I am fairly certain there are more coming for each of the 4 Lore Masters that we have.  Apparently DOW was given a set of so many and they selected the 15 that we have now.  that is why there isn't necessarily a balance between Lore decks right now (setting aside obvious "power" issues, the Cleric seems to have more level dependent spells compared tot he warrior for example).

I also assume we might see additional Lore Masters with their own specific deck.  We still need to see what this guest spot is all about.

 

I agree with Noir in that the Warrior deck is oddly flat (especially if you have more than one level of him). 

 

If all these cards were already developed, it really makes me wonder why they are holding back on them.  Maybe they want to to a big release instead of a trickle?



#8 Caboose

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 07:40 AM

Quizoid said:

ColtsFan76 said:

 

I would very much doubt there are new Command Cards as well.  With all the C&C games, the decks have been fairly consistent and have a good mix of section and tactic cards.

The only new Command cards that might come out might have to do with flying creatures a la Memoir 44 and their Air Sortie cards.  But this is pure specualtion as I think Dragons should be handled like the planes in Memoir.  That way they are a bit more rare in game usage but can have a significant impact when present.

As far as Lore cards, I am fairly certain there are more coming for each of the 4 Lore Masters that we have.  Apparently DOW was given a set of so many and they selected the 15 that we have now.  that is why there isn't necessarily a balance between Lore decks right now (setting aside obvious "power" issues, the Cleric seems to have more level dependent spells compared tot he warrior for example).

I also assume we might see additional Lore Masters with their own specific deck.  We still need to see what this guest spot is all about.

 

 

 

I agree with Noir in that the Warrior deck is oddly flat (especially if you have more than one level of him). 

 

If all these cards were already developed, it really makes me wonder why they are holding back on them.  Maybe they want to to a big release instead of a trickle?

Well it is Richard that is "holding" them back.  He wanted to do a release of them with an appropriate expansion.   Probably a lore deck and terrain type expansion vs a troop expansion for dwarfs/humans, etc.   In other words a generic expansion.   In my last conversation with him, he is trying to develop an expansion that would be appropriate...it could be included in Heroes though.   

Thus wanted to give a little feedback on that - it is not the companies that are holding back but Richard so he can give us the most bang for the buck.

Cab



#9 ColtsFan76

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 12:38 PM

Caboose said:

Well it is Richard that is "holding" them back.  He wanted to do a release of them with an appropriate expansion.   Probably a lore deck and terrain type expansion vs a troop expansion for dwarfs/humans, etc.   In other words a generic expansion.   In my last conversation with him, he is trying to develop an expansion that would be appropriate...it could be included in Heroes though.   

Thus wanted to give a little feedback on that - it is not the companies that are holding back but Richard so he can give us the most bang for the buck.

Cab

At this point, it may be Richard holding back the release of them.  But he told me that he presented maybe 20 or 25 to DOW and they selected teh 15 we ultimately have.   So what we are stuck with is a decision of DOW.  I am sure their bottleneck also contributed to the "new" cards not getting out after the release of the base game.



#10 Zeal

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 02:42 AM

Noir_fleuri said:

New lore cards are indeed needed, because the balance is so badly broken. Compared to the clerics level and terrain dependant cards, the warrior is virtually useless. I've ended up using medieval lore rules with all the cards. It helps a bit.

 

Ahh yes, a return to the much sought-after mythical "balance".

My thoughts on that are covered here: http://new.fantasyfl...d=1&efidt=14584 and elsewhere. Well, if they ever make Vassal Battlelore more fun than excruciating, I think I can restore your faith in balance. . . (or die in a landslide)

 

Z

 

 

 

 



#11 toddrew

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Posted 23 December 2008 - 05:51 AM

Zeal said:

Well, if they ever make Vassal Battlelore more fun than excruciating, ...

 

??

There is a new module on the way - but with all the add-ons there is more to fiddle with (which is good :) ).  Aside from some, perhaps, difficulties with getting the extensions loaded, what are the issues with Vassal?  Slickest way to play the game that I know of.

 

As to the idea that the Warrior is useless, I think the opposite perspective needs to be taken - not that there is little value in taking a level 3 Warrior (which I disagree with as well :) ), but that there is greater value in taking a level 1 warrior than a level 1 cleric.  The balance is not in having equal number of scalable cards, rather that expending one war council token on the Warrior is often sufficient, whereas the Cleric pretty much requires a 3 token investment (though 2 is fairly potent) if carrying it.  By having the most scalable cards, the Cleric suffers the most "lore depreciation" (if you will) when taking at level 2 or 1.



#12 Quizoid

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 02:57 AM

toddrew said:

Zeal said:

 

Well, if they ever make Vassal Battlelore more fun than excruciating, ...

 

 

 

??

There is a new module on the way - but with all the add-ons there is more to fiddle with (which is good :) ).  Aside from some, perhaps, difficulties with getting the extensions loaded, what are the issues with Vassal?  Slickest way to play the game that I know of.

 

As to the idea that the Warrior is useless, I think the opposite perspective needs to be taken - not that there is little value in taking a level 3 Warrior (which I disagree with as well :) ), but that there is greater value in taking a level 1 warrior than a level 1 cleric.  The balance is not in having equal number of scalable cards, rather that expending one war council token on the Warrior is often sufficient, whereas the Cleric pretty much requires a 3 token investment (though 2 is fairly potent) if carrying it.  By having the most scalable cards, the Cleric suffers the most "lore depreciation" (if you will) when taking at level 2 or 1.

 

I think you just stepped outside of Zeal's five camp theory.  

 

Personally, I don't really care if some cards are better than others, it's a card game, so luck is a part of it.  However, I think it's cooler if the five Warlords are balanced with each other, because then you get to play with them, trying different combos, etc... instead of having a "best way," and being done with it.  Though, they seem balanced enough to only have a couple general rules, being: "Use a level 3 cleric," and, "Use a warrior if you want, but only level 1."



#13 toddrew

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Posted 25 December 2008 - 04:31 AM

Quizoid said:

 

Personally, I don't really care if some cards are better than others, it's a card game, so luck is a part of it.  However, I think it's cooler if the five Warlords are balanced with each other, because then you get to play with them, trying different combos, etc... instead of having a "best way," and being done with it.  Though, they seem balanced enough to only have a couple general rules, being: "Use a level 3 cleric," and, "Use a warrior if you want, but only level 1."

 

 

I'm not doing a very good job of explaining myself if I am coming across as presenting that there is only one, or even a limited, way of constructing war councils.  Especially since I often argue that taking a Level 3 Warrior is a good idea :)  Hard to keep track of where I've said what, but I do spend a lot of text defending the Level 3 Warrior choice :)

The crux of most of my compulsive reflections on this game are how much I enjoy the interplay between all the different components: command cards, lore cards, lore masters, units, creatures, etc.  Some may be convinced that there are limited choices for an effective force, even to the point of brokeness it sometimes seems some feel, but I am certainly not among that "camp" :)

For those that really feel this way I suggest this mode of play: for choosing war councils, roll x number of dice, equal to the war council level desired.  Green Helm = 1 level for the Rogue, Blue Helm=1 level for the cleric, Red Helm=1 level for the warrior, Lore=1 level for the wizard, Sword and Shield=1 level for the commander, Flag=choice.  Great way to break the stagnation if one is in a rut with war councils.

 

And, for what it's worth, I consider myself a charter member of camp #2






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