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In which we talk about how badass Space Marines should be.


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#1 The Wyzard

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 05:35 AM

 So, I'm sure there's been a great deal of speculation about whether or not FFG is going to make marines resemble the fluff or not.

I took the time last night to review the Space Marine codex, and consider all the capabilities they're supposed to have due to their extra organs.

A short list:

Space Marines can breathe underwater.

Space Marines can spit an acid poison at their enemies, or use it to dissolve the strongest metals (Yeah, SMs can lick their way out of prison.)

They can eat the flesh of a creature to gain some of its memories.

They can cocoon themselves in a waxy substance (that protects them from hard vacuum) and enter suspended animation, for centuries if need be.

They have an extra heart, and an extra kidney, in addition to an extra lung.  The extra kidney and lung are both pretty awesome.

They can taste-test substances for toxicity and nutritional content, in addition to being able to track by scent like a hound dog.

They have super-hearing (can filter and enhance different sounds, in addition to being much sharper than a normal humans) and enhanced low-light vision.  They also have better-than-human balance.

Etc.

I think it's pretty easy to wonder whether or not we get "wargame" marines or "fluff" marines.  But, I think FFG is smart enough to figure out that nobody buys Deathwatch to play a trooper with some extra Strength and Toughness.  Rogue Trader was crazy-awesome because they gave starting PCs a ship that could dominate a whole primitive world from orbit, was kilometers long, and had thousands of crew available to carry lasguns.  I don't think there's a whole lot of reason to think they'll pull back from that and ***** out the Space Marines to make them "balanced" or "reasonable" or "not ******* terrifying."



#2 numb3rc

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 02:30 PM

Since when can Space Marines breath underwater? Brothers of the Snake explicitly said that although they can hold their breath for an enormous amount of time, they still can' t breath underwater. Gills aren't one of the implants. Was that in older fluff or something to do with the third lung?



#3 Corut

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 04:59 PM

numb3rc said:

Since when can Space Marines breath underwater? Brothers of the Snake explicitly said that although they can hold their breath for an enormous amount of time, they still can' t breath underwater. Gills aren't one of the implants. Was that in older fluff or something to do with the third lung?

 

5th ed space marine codex says:

 

Space Marines can close off their normal lungs in favour of the bio-engineering multi-lung. The multi-lung enables the host to breath poisonous atmospheres or even water.



#4 The Laughing God

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 10:22 PM

The Wyzard said:

Space Marines can spit an acid poison at their enemies, or use it to dissolve the strongest metals (Yeah, SMs can lick their way out of prison.)

They can eat the flesh of a creature to gain some of its memories.

That's ridiculous ... if the Emperor's finest are monsters like this what's the big deal about some Tyranids, Slaughth or other xenos races oozing, sucking, gnawing their way through humanity's realms


Show me ... everything!


#5 Malefic Sorcerer

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 11:29 PM

Yep, those so-called 'fluff abilities' are quite ridiculous.

Okay, Marines have several biotechnological enhancements and weird organs implanted, they even have superhuman abilities which make them the equal of 30 or more men, but in my games I'd rather have characters who start out with Unnatural Strength(x2) and Unnatural Toughness(x2) for the Emperor's sake, before I give them ANY of the abilities mentioned in the OP's thread. None of said abilities do anything to enhance the roleplay experience of a man-thing which still is supposed to be a gene-engineered supersoldier (even if they are 'codex-canon'), instead they cut down on any potential by making the Marines just 300% more cheesy than they already are. 

Nothing wrong with the concept of DW, nor with the supposedly fresh experience in trying to honestly roleplay Space Marines, but I'd rather play (or GM for) a seven-foot tall 40k version of corporal Hicks, brandishing his Bolter and sidearm shotgun, than some poison-spitting munchkin machine. 

 

So, being a tad opposed to the OP's hopes, I'm rather wondering if FFG 'is smart enough'  to acknowledge that sometimes less can be more ... 

 

 



#6 numb3rc

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 05:34 AM

Malefic Sorcerer said:

Yep, those so-called 'fluff abilities' are quite ridiculous.

Okay, Marines have several biotechnological enhancements and weird organs implanted, they even have superhuman abilities which make them the equal of 30 or more men, but in my games I'd rather have characters who start out with Unnatural Strength(x2) and Unnatural Toughness(x2) for the Emperor's sake, before I give them ANY of the abilities mentioned in the OP's thread. None of said abilities do anything to enhance the roleplay experience of a man-thing which still is supposed to be a gene-engineered supersoldier (even if they are 'codex-canon'), instead they cut down on any potential by making the Marines just 300% more cheesy than they already are. 

Nothing wrong with the concept of DW, nor with the supposedly fresh experience in trying to honestly roleplay Space Marines, but I'd rather play (or GM for) a seven-foot tall 40k version of corporal Hicks, brandishing his Bolter and sidearm shotgun, than some poison-spitting munchkin machine. 

 

So, being a tad opposed to the OP's hopes, I'm rather wondering if FFG 'is smart enough'  to acknowledge that sometimes less can be more ... 

 

 

Well, some of them are minor enough (like the brain-chomping=memories one) that they won't come up as much. I can just see FFG adding some heightened senses and resistances in and that would work.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that Deathwatch will have a big 'ol list of added organs with maybe one effect for some of them. Like "Third Lung: Blah blah fluff, allows you to breath underwater, have the effects of a respirator." Something like that.



#7 Santiago

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 05:59 AM

 Hi,

I think they will start out with things such as:

- Resistance (Poison)
- Resitance (Fear), perhaps Fearless (would be pretty lame)
- Unnatural Strenght & Toughness x2 (may rise with XP)
- Universal Weapon Training (Pistol & Basic)
- 16 - 25 wounds
- WS, BS, S, T, WP 30 + 2d10 and the rest 25 +2d10

 

BUT:
Like Rogue Trader some things might come insanely late and at inmense high XP cost such as Lightning/Swift Attack and akin.
 

 

GrtZ,

S.



#8 Cervantes3773

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 01:49 PM

Space Marines are pretty bad ass.  However, they still can't breathe underwater...    Woe unto to Matt Ward if I ever meet him in a dark, deserted alley.

To me, what's more interesting that your standard marine, is how certain chapters have lost certain organs or abilities or gained new ones.  Space Wolves have a much improved sense of smell and I think the Imperial Fists have lost the ability to generate/spit acid and enter suspended animation.

I think a generic marine can be represented through one or two unnatural traits, some increased sensory abilities, and maybe a chapter specific talent or two (Imperial Fists self-castigate if they feel they have failed something, etc).



#9 The Wyzard

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 04:11 PM

 I suppose the specific acid-spitting &c. abilities aren't as important to me as what they represent - a willingness to make Space Marines into the larger-than-life epic heroes they're supposed to be.  I mean, I want them to live up to their reputation.  I didn't wait four years to be able to make the same basic trooper with slightly better Strength & Toughness.  I don't need a whole new RPG for that.  That's why I'm hoping they go the Rogue Trader route: Give the PCs the power the setting says they have, because what they do with it will be more compelling than another RPG where we slog through the mud and fight snotlings.  Don't get me wrong, WFRP & DH are great games, but I don't need to buy them again.



#10 Cervantes3773

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 04:30 PM

The Wyzard said:

 I suppose the specific acid-spitting &c. abilities aren't as important to me as what they represent - a willingness to make Space Marines into the larger-than-life epic heroes they're supposed to be.  I mean, I want them to live up to their reputation.  I didn't wait four years to be able to make the same basic trooper with slightly better Strength & Toughness.  I don't need a whole new RPG for that.  That's why I'm hoping they go the Rogue Trader route: Give the PCs the power the setting says they have, because what they do with it will be more compelling than another RPG where we slog through the mud and fight snotlings.  Don't get me wrong, WFRP & DH are great games, but I don't need to buy them again.

Nail, meet head.



#11 Atheosis

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 06:42 PM

Cervantes3773 said:

 

Space Marines are pretty bad ass.  However, they still can't breathe underwater...    Woe unto to Matt Ward if I ever meet him in a dark, deserted alley.

To me, what's more interesting that your standard marine, is how certain chapters have lost certain organs or abilities or gained new ones.  Space Wolves have a much improved sense of smell and I think the Imperial Fists have lost the ability to generate/spit acid and enter suspended animation.

I think a generic marine can be represented through one or two unnatural traits, some increased sensory abilities, and maybe a chapter specific talent or two (Imperial Fists self-castigate if they feel they have failed something, etc).

 

 

Some sources do in fact indicate they can breathe underwater.  It's one of those inconsistencies in 40k lore.



#12 Atheosis

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 06:44 PM

Cervantes3773 said:

The Wyzard said:

 

 I suppose the specific acid-spitting &c. abilities aren't as important to me as what they represent - a willingness to make Space Marines into the larger-than-life epic heroes they're supposed to be.  I mean, I want them to live up to their reputation.  I didn't wait four years to be able to make the same basic trooper with slightly better Strength & Toughness.  I don't need a whole new RPG for that.  That's why I'm hoping they go the Rogue Trader route: Give the PCs the power the setting says they have, because what they do with it will be more compelling than another RPG where we slog through the mud and fight snotlings.  Don't get me wrong, WFRP & DH are great games, but I don't need to buy them again.

 

 

Nail, meet head.

The head is part of the nail...I'm confused...



#13 UncleArkie

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 08:29 PM

Atheosis said:

Cervantes3773 said:

 

The Wyzard said:

 

 I suppose the specific acid-spitting &c. abilities aren't as important to me as what they represent - a willingness to make Space Marines into the larger-than-life epic heroes they're supposed to be.  I mean, I want them to live up to their reputation.  I didn't wait four years to be able to make the same basic trooper with slightly better Strength & Toughness.  I don't need a whole new RPG for that.  That's why I'm hoping they go the Rogue Trader route: Give the PCs the power the setting says they have, because what they do with it will be more compelling than another RPG where we slog through the mud and fight snotlings.  Don't get me wrong, WFRP & DH are great games, but I don't need to buy them again.

 

 

Nail, meet head.

 

 

The head is part of the nail...I'm confused...

While in danger of being captain obvious, I tink he meant head of the hammer meets the nail... I might be wrong. this is the internet afterall.



#14 Cervantes3773

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 09:30 AM

UncleArkie said:

Atheosis said:

 

Cervantes3773 said:

 

The Wyzard said:

 

 I suppose the specific acid-spitting &c. abilities aren't as important to me as what they represent - a willingness to make Space Marines into the larger-than-life epic heroes they're supposed to be.  I mean, I want them to live up to their reputation.  I didn't wait four years to be able to make the same basic trooper with slightly better Strength & Toughness.  I don't need a whole new RPG for that.  That's why I'm hoping they go the Rogue Trader route: Give the PCs the power the setting says they have, because what they do with it will be more compelling than another RPG where we slog through the mud and fight snotlings.  Don't get me wrong, WFRP & DH are great games, but I don't need to buy them again.

 

 

Nail, meet head.

 

 

The head is part of the nail...I'm confused...

 

 

While in danger of being captain obvious, I tink he meant head of the hammer meets the nail... I might be wrong. this is the internet afterall.

 

...

...   ...

...   ...   ...wait for it...

 

...nail, meet head.



#15 UncleArkie

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Posted 12 April 2010 - 11:49 PM

Cervantes3773 said:

UncleArkie said:

 

Atheosis said:

 

Cervantes3773 said:

 

The Wyzard said:

 

 I suppose the specific acid-spitting &c. abilities aren't as important to me as what they represent - a willingness to make Space Marines into the larger-than-life epic heroes they're supposed to be.  I mean, I want them to live up to their reputation.  I didn't wait four years to be able to make the same basic trooper with slightly better Strength & Toughness.  I don't need a whole new RPG for that.  That's why I'm hoping they go the Rogue Trader route: Give the PCs the power the setting says they have, because what they do with it will be more compelling than another RPG where we slog through the mud and fight snotlings.  Don't get me wrong, WFRP & DH are great games, but I don't need to buy them again.

 

 

Nail, meet head.

 

 

The head is part of the nail...I'm confused...

 

 

While in danger of being captain obvious, I tink he meant head of the hammer meets the nail... I might be wrong. this is the internet afterall.

 

 

 

...

...   ...

...   ...   ...wait for it...

 

...nail, meet head.

 

NOOOOOO!!!! (Luke voice).



#16 Atheosis

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 03:51 AM

UncleArkie said:

Atheosis said:

 

Cervantes3773 said:

 

The Wyzard said:

 

 I suppose the specific acid-spitting &c. abilities aren't as important to me as what they represent - a willingness to make Space Marines into the larger-than-life epic heroes they're supposed to be.  I mean, I want them to live up to their reputation.  I didn't wait four years to be able to make the same basic trooper with slightly better Strength & Toughness.  I don't need a whole new RPG for that.  That's why I'm hoping they go the Rogue Trader route: Give the PCs the power the setting says they have, because what they do with it will be more compelling than another RPG where we slog through the mud and fight snotlings.  Don't get me wrong, WFRP & DH are great games, but I don't need to buy them again.

 

 

Nail, meet head.

 

 

The head is part of the nail...I'm confused...

 

 

While in danger of being captain obvious, I tink he meant head of the hammer meets the nail... I might be wrong. this is the internet afterall.

Of course that's not how the saying goes but whatever...



#17 Niqvah

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 04:38 AM

It's also worth keeping in mind that some of the additional organs described in the initial post here have degraded in certain Chapters. For those few that have very pure geneseed, they may hold true, but for others - the Blood Angels, for example - the geneseed is no longer producing perfect results and some functionality has been lost.

This would be a good opportunity for FFG to introduce different Resistances and Talents for different Chapters, IMO. It would give them each a different flavour without being gratuitous about it.



#18 Atheosis

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 07:11 AM

Niqvah said:

It's also worth keeping in mind that some of the additional organs described in the initial post here have degraded in certain Chapters. For those few that have very pure geneseed, they may hold true, but for others - the Blood Angels, for example - the geneseed is no longer producing perfect results and some functionality has been lost.

This would be a good opportunity for FFG to introduce different Resistances and Talents for different Chapters, IMO. It would give them each a different flavour without being gratuitous about it.

The Blood Angels haven't lost any functionality in their organs.



#19 Lucius Valerius

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 11:15 AM

Just an overpowered new codex =P



#20 UncleArkie

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 08:14 PM

Well you could call the black rage a "loss of functionality" :P






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