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Question: Why are the adventure tokens face-up on the board, but then face-down and hidden when taken by a player?


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#1 JonHook

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 03:09 AM

 This seems a little confusing, and completely unnecessary to me. If the adventure tokens are face-up on the board, then why does the player need to keep them hidden from the other players once they have taken a token from the board? 

Wouldn't it make more sense if the adventure tokens were face-down on the board, and then only the player that takes a token gets to see what his reward is for using Conan? 

Does anyone house rule this? 



#2 Krieghund

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 05:59 AM

The adventure tokens are kept secret after being claimed so that players can never be quite sure of each others' totals in each category when assigning the artifacts in the Age Change phase or attempting to crown Conan king.



#3 Tsugo

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 06:05 AM

Knowing the value of the adventure tokens plays a significant factor in how much you are willing to bid for Conan.  If they are low value tokens or not a type you are interested in, it may not be worth it to blow one of your high value bid tokens or a high value strategy card.

Remembering which tokens were kept and which discarded becomes a strategy.  Also, remember that if Conan reaches his destination before the conclusion of the current adventure, the Conan Player receives a bonus adventure token which is hidden from the other players.  So even if someone has kept track of the tiles you keep or discard, this unknown element will keep them guessing.

If the value of tokens were revealed for the entire game, then bidding for artifacts wouldn't have the same impact.  Players would more likely bid on the artifact that they absolutely knew they would win.  The way it works currently, it's not uncommon for multiple players to bid on the same artifact, leaving some players without artifacts and some artifacts out of use for the age.

I don't see where house ruling this would make the game better.



#4 JonHook

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 12:05 PM

Tsugo said:

Knowing the value of the adventure tokens plays a significant factor in how much you are willing to bid for Conan.  If they are low value tokens or not a type you are interested in, it may not be worth it to blow one of your high value bid tokens or a high value strategy card.

Remembering which tokens were kept and which discarded becomes a strategy.  Also, remember that if Conan reaches his destination before the conclusion of the current adventure, the Conan Player receives a bonus adventure token which is hidden from the other players.  So even if someone has kept track of the tiles you keep or discard, this unknown element will keep them guessing.

If the value of tokens were revealed for the entire game, then bidding for artifacts wouldn't have the same impact.  Players would more likely bid on the artifact that they absolutely knew they would win.  The way it works currently, it's not uncommon for multiple players to bid on the same artifact, leaving some players without artifacts and some artifacts out of use for the age.

I don't see where house ruling this would make the game better.

I'm not sure how significant knowing the value of the next token is to the bidding or use of Conan; each token has significant value in the game. I can't help but wonder how more intense the bidding process will if no player knows what any player has, (as far as the tokens are concerned). 



#5 Tim Kelly

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 02:41 PM

I agree with Tsugo.  Knowing the value of the tokens, the number of "crown" dice, and the turn order are all important considerations in the "Conan" bid. 

TK


"...I was born game, and I intend to go out that way." -- Rooster Cogburn


#6 Tsugo

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 08:01 AM

JonHook said:

I'm not sure how significant knowing the value of the next token is to the bidding or use of Conan; each token has significant value in the game. I can't help but wonder how more intense the bidding process will if no player knows what any player has, (as far as the tokens are concerned). 

I don't think it would intensify the bidding process at all.  It simply changes a strategic element to an entirely luck based one.  If I know another player has acquired several monster trophies, for example, and the new adventure reveals several more monster trophies, you can bet there's going to be some fierce bidding.  The player with the trophies will bid high to get more, other players will bid high to prevent this from happening, while building up their own numbers.

Another example would be if there are a bunch of trophies worth two gold or spell icons on them and I need gold to refresh cards or spells tokens to play Kingdom cards, then I would bid high. 

However, if the adventure tokens are hidden, then it's a crap shoot.  I'd be pissed if I bid high, only to find a bunch of value 1 trophies or trophies that aren't worth very much gold or spell tokens.  If it all comes down to luck,then there would be no reason to simply use your highest card and the "3" bid token, saving your "6" to try to crown Conan in the 3rd age.  Things like remaining "Court" action dice in the pool wouldn't be as significant, at least where bidding was concerned.

But don't let me stop you from trying it out and letting us know how it goes. 



#7 JonHook

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 05:40 PM

 Oh! Ok, that makes sense. I totally didn't pick that strategy up after reading the rules. Thanks for that tip. 



#8 JonHook

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 05:58 AM

 To date I have played AoC twice now, and I wanted to update this thread with my thoughts on the adventure tokens being face-up on the board. I now see the wisdom of this. In my second game we really toyed with the tokens, moving Conan in such a way as to force certain tokens to be discarded, and in combination with Court & Conan fate dice each player vied for particular tokens. In our game, any monster token with a value of 3 was very popular! 

 

I definitely would not house rule this part of the game so that the adventure tokens are face-down on the board. 






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