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Loser Power Question


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#1 DreamsInAnime

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 04:58 PM

I would like a ruling (official, if possible) on the following situation, which wasn't in the FAQ:

The Loser declares an upset, but only has negotiate encounter cards. The opponent must play an attack card, so this is an attack v. negotiate encounter. Normally the player who played an attack card would win, but due to the Loser's power the winner and loser are reversed. Therefore, the opponent who played an attack card ultimately loses.

Now, since this is an attack v. negotiate encounter, does the player who ultimately lost the encounter (the Loser's opponent, after the Loser's power reverses the outcome) collect compensation?

Related question: In this same situation, must the Loser reveal her hand to play a negotiate card after declaring an upset?



#2 crimhead

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:33 AM

Hello, welcome to the FFG forums!

DreamsInAnime said:

Now, since this is an attack v. negotiate encounter, does the player who ultimately lost the encounter (the Loser's opponent, after the Loser's power reverses the outcome) collect compensation?

I can give you an official answer to the first question because it's covered in the rules on page eleven (under the heading compensation):

"When one player plays a negotiate and his opponent plays an attack card, the player who played the negotiate card gets to collect compensation."

So in your example, the Loser would technically collect compensation, but would draw zero cards since zero ships were lost to the warp.  If you want the Loser's opponent to colect compensation, that would be a house rule.

As for the other question, there are other powers and game effects that depend on what's in your hand.  Some of these say you have to prove the contents of your hand, others do not.  For example, when somebody plays a Plague against you, you must discard a card of every type you hold.  You usually won't have all eight types of cards represnted in your hand, so you discard one of each type you have.  Plague does not say you must reveal yyour hand to prove this.  Contarst this with chronos, whihch says: "If your opponenenthas no more encounter cards in hand, and show you so...

I would say unless the card or effect mandates you show your hand you don't have to show it.  But that doesn't mean you're allowed to cheat!

Cheers!



#3 Just_a_Bill

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 06:52 AM

crimhead said:

"When one player plays a negotiate and his opponent plays an attack card, the player who played the negotiate card gets to collect compensation."

 

So in your example, the Loser would technically collect compensation, but would draw zero cards since zero ships were lost to the warp.  If you want the Loser's opponent to colect compensation, that would be a house rule.

For the sake of completeness, I should point out that there's more to the story than that.  To collect compensation, you must

  1. reveal a negotiate card,
  2. be opposed to a player who reveals an attack card,
  3. lose the encounter, and
  4. lose ships to the warp.

If any of those conditions don't occur, there is no compensation (unless some other effect specifies otherwise, of course). Here are some more quotations from the rulebook (emphasis mine):

"When one player plays a negotiate and his opponent plays an attack card, the player who played the negotiate card gets to collect compensation. That player must randomly take one card for each ship he or she lost to the warp (not counting any allies’ ships – they go to the warp without compensation) from his or her opponent’s hand. If the player’s opponent doesn’t have enough cards to provide full compensation, the player takes the opponent’s entire hand of cards."

"Compensation is the term for cards a player gets to steal from his or her opponent after losing an encounter by playing a negotiate vs. the opponent’s attack card."

crimhead said:

As for the other question, there are other powers and game effects that depend on what's in your hand. Some of these say you have to prove the contents of your hand, others do not. ...  I would say unless the card or effect mandates you show your hand you don't have to show it. But that doesn't mean you're allowed to cheat!

 Agreed.   Some things in Cosmic work on the honor system, and some things require verification.  Follow the specific text on each card.



#4 crimhead

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 06:26 AM

Good eye, Just A Bill!






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