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#1 sko

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 06:45 PM

Following our first game of Android, and a subsequent re-reading of the rules and cards, we have come up with the following questions. Not all of them came up during play, in fact, many are being asked proactively. Any help is appreciated.

-- General

1. Some cards refer to 'discarding' evidence. Does discarded evidence return to the pool or return to the box?

2. Similarly, some Tech/Cyberware cards are 'discarded'. Are these cards returned to the bottom of the Light twilight decks from which they came?

3. When a detective moves to a location, is that the same as 'entering' a location? (I just want to avoid an argument someday when a player says, "I'm not entering [Restricted Location A], I'm just passing by in my car.)

-- Rachel

4. Rachel's Money card does not have a listing for $0. Can she actually spend down to $0, or can she only spend down to $1,000?

5. On the Crossroad card, "I Can't Take Your Money," Rachel gains bad baggage for each $1,000 she "loses". Does she gain baggage when she spends her money?

-- Floyd

6. On the Crossroad card, "What Makes A Soul?" Floyd gains good baggage "for every different type of location he enters on his turn after the first." We interpreted this to mean that, each turn, Floyd gains one good baggage whenever he enters a [type] location for the first time on that individual turn, with the exception of the first such type each turn. Is this correct?

-- Caprice

7. On the Start card, "Property of Jinteki," Caprice gains good baggage when she "reveals a piece of evidence before placing it." Does the revealed evidence stay revealed for the remainder of the game, face-up? Or should it still be placed face-down?

8. On the same card, Caprice gains bad baggage whenever an opponent "looks at one or more of her cards." Does this include when Caprice plays Light twilight cards that require her to show cards to an opponent? How much baggage does she gain if more than one opponent looks at her cards at the same time?

9. On the Crossroad card, "Get her off me!" Caprice gains baggage "each time she looks at one or more cards in another player's hand." How much baggage does she gain if she looks at the cards of more than one opponent at the same time?

10. On the Light twilight card, "Our agents are looking into it," Caprice's player gets to look at multiple cards and "place one card on the bottom" of the appropriate deck. Does this card go to the face-up discard section of that deck or to the bottom of the face-down draw section of that deck?

11. On the Dark twilight card, "Why Weren't You At the Deposition?" the text reads in part, "Play when Caprice follows up a lead. That lead produces no evidence.." Can the lead being followed up instead be used to uncover part of the conspiracy? Or is this considered to fully expend the benefits of following up the lead?

12. On several twilight cards, an opponent is instructed to name a Plot and "draw three cards at random from Caprice's hand." Do the random cards come from her full hand of twilight cards, or just her Light cards? If her full hand, is the opponent allowed to ask the Caprice player to show whose cards she has in her hand before they name the Plot?

-- Raymond

13. On the Start card, "Haunted By The Past," Raymond gains baggage when  he "sacrifices" a piece of evidence. This clearly happens before placing a piece of evidence. Does this happen before or after Raymond looks at the value on the piece of evidence? Is the sacrificed piece returned to the evidence pool or returned to the box?

14. On the Crossroad card, "You Were Right, Ray!" Raymond gains good baggage "for each Light card he draws on his turn after the first two." Does 'first two' mean the first two Light cards he draws after the Crossroad card comes into play? Or does it mean the first two Light cards he draws each turn?

15. On the same card, Raymond gains bad baggage "every time another player draws and reveals one of his Dark Haunted By The Past cards." After the card is revealed, does it stay in the opponent's hand, or is it discarded?

16. On the Dark twilight card, "Sir, there's a dress code," the text reads, "Play when Raymond enters a ritzy location to cancel that action. He cannot enter that location again this turn." What exactly is being cancelled? Raymond's move to the ritzy location? If that's the case, he would lose the time spent moving and return back to the location he was in before moving, right?

---

OK, that's what I have for tonight. Thanks!



#2 Mike

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 07:45 PM

1. To the pool. It is explicitley stated if it's returned to the box.

2. see above

3. Yes, it is. Manual explicitley states that a player must give other players some time to react when entering a location to play a dark card. That is important especially for the "passing through".

4. If she has $1,000, she can spend $1,000.

5. Sounds like it.

6. No exception for the first kind. It just starts to trigger when he starts to enter the second location in the turn.

7. No definite answer. From all the other rulings, I'd say it stays revealed.

8. Yes to the first part. That's the downside of Caprice. And if two opponents look, she gets twice the bad baggage.

9. Twice the good baggage, analogous to the above question.

10. Face down. It is not discarded.

11. Difficult question - I'd relegate this one to the FAQ. Houserule would say all benefits are expended. Why? Because if she doesn't pick up evidence/conspiracy information at the deposition, that's it.

12. You assume the player must name one of Caprice's plots. From the wording, that does not sound like it. So the player draws thec ards from her entire hand (as stated). If the player must choose one of Caprice's plots, FAQ's time. House rule would say you draw from the entire hand including dakr cards. Tough luck.

13. He draws first. Thus, he looks at the evidence. Then he may sacrifice it and return it to the pool. See first and second question.

14. Ray draws three light cards -> one good baggage. He draws two -> no good baggage. The cards do not enter play autromatically.

15. Of course it stays in the opponent's hand. It really sucks being Ray in this situation. If you have enough evil players, you can load his plot wiht bad baggage so much that he wants to commit suicide.

16. Return him back to his old location. FAQ for the time - I'd house rule the time is lost (since he moved there and gets the door slammed shut in front of him).



#3 sko

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 05:29 AM

I'd say we're pretty much on the same page on all of these questions, Mike, and thanks for your response. Most of these questions I wouldn't normally bother to ask, except to head off future potential rules lawyers.

A few notes on a few of the questions:

1. This comes up because I couldn't find the concept of discarding evidence explicitly in the rulebook. Also, note the difference in text between "I've installed a full spectrum analyzer." ("when you place evidence on a suspect, draw one additional piece of evidence from the pool and choose which piece of evidence from the pool and choose which piece of evidence you wish to place, discarding the other.") and "I'm okay, it was just a vision." ("If you wish, you may draw a random piece of evidence from the pool, look at it, and replace the old evidence with it, returning the old piece of evidence to the pool."). I do agree that discarded evidence should return to the pool, especially given that the rules do explicitly state that evidence placed on a killed suspect is returned there.

3. The situation I'm hoping to avoid is someone trying to move, say, Broadcast Square->Jinteki->Weyland Real Estate, and arguing that since they aren't trying to do anything at Jinteki, they shouldn't have to pay the extra 2 time to move there. After all, the rules say that you only have to pay extra time if you enter a Restricted location. Personally, I think it's pretty ridiculous, but I have known players who would try to work a case like that.

6. OK, I wrote this question really poorly. My excuse is that it was late, and I was tired. To restate, Floyd can gain at most four good baggage by entering the five different types of locations with this card in play, and he can gain this baggage every day the card is in play. Is this correct?

12. The cards in question actually just state "Name a plot and draw three cards at random from Caprice's hand." I think it is clearly intended to be the whole hand of cards, but that will make random selection somewhat difficult to enforce without an outside randomizer. Thankfully, a d6 is never hard to find among gamers.

14. This one actually came up during play. The first day the crossroads card was in play, the Raymond player spent time to draw four Light cards, gaining two good baggage. On the next day, the Raymond player started spending time to draw Light cards again. However, he believed that the clause "after the first two" had already been fulfilled on the first day, and that the card was unclear as to whether it should need to be fulfilled every day the card is in play. I should add that this is not a player I would normally consider to be a rules lawyer type.



#4 Mike

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 06:54 AM

Yeah, looks like we're quite on the same page. :) Here's my other $0.2:

3. The rules are very specific there. If you put your detective marker on a location, you are entering it. You must pay one or more time as stated in the rules. There is really no margin for other ruling here.

6. I just saw that I read your question poorly - sorry, my fault. Your interpretation is correct. Four baggage for five different location types, but every day.

12. You've got a point. I'd say, shuffle and deal out the top three. Works as well.

14. It's an interesting point, no less. But! Let's look at the game machanics. Everything that needs to be traced gets traced explicitly: how much money Rachel has, how much Sanity Caprice has left, who the first player is - everything with a hero marker. So it's safe to assume that there would be a mechanic implemented that would track the two light cards being drawn one or more rounds before the actual one - and probably with a hero marker, too. That is not the case, hence I believe the player has to draw the base two cards every round. Another argument would be that simply drawing light cards for good baggage would be far too powerful. Remember that you can enter ritzy locations for a free light card, too!



#5 KevinW

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 08:41 AM

My answers are below, inside the quote.

sko said:

Following our first game of Android, and a subsequent re-reading of the rules and cards, we have come up with the following questions. Not all of them came up during play, in fact, many are being asked proactively. Any help is appreciated.

-- General

1. Some cards refer to 'discarding' evidence. Does discarded evidence return to the pool or return to the box?

A: The pool.

2. Similarly, some Tech/Cyberware cards are 'discarded'. Are these cards returned to the bottom of the Light twilight decks from which they came?

A: Yes.

3. When a detective moves to a location, is that the same as 'entering' a location? (I just want to avoid an argument someday when a player says, "I'm not entering [Restricted Location A], I'm just passing by in my car.)

A: Yes.

-- Rachel

4. Rachel's Money card does not have a listing for $0. Can she actually spend down to $0, or can she only spend down to $1,000?

A: She can spend down to $0. Just move the hero marker off her card.

5. On the Crossroad card, "I Can't Take Your Money," Rachel gains bad baggage for each $1,000 she "loses". Does she gain baggage when she spends her money?

A: Spending is not losing, no.

-- Floyd

6. On the Crossroad card, "What Makes A Soul?" Floyd gains good baggage "for every different type of location he enters on his turn after the first." We interpreted this to mean that, each turn, Floyd gains one good baggage whenever he enters a [type] location for the first time on that individual turn, with the exception of the first such type each turn. Is this correct?

A: Correct. (And remember, type is shown by color on the map.)

-- Caprice

7. On the Start card, "Property of Jinteki," Caprice gains good baggage when she "reveals a piece of evidence before placing it." Does the revealed evidence stay revealed for the remainder of the game, face-up? Or should it still be placed face-down?

A: Face-up for the rest of the game.

8. On the same card, Caprice gains bad baggage whenever an opponent "looks at one or more of her cards." Does this include when Caprice plays Light twilight cards that require her to show cards to an opponent? How much baggage does she gain if more than one opponent looks at her cards at the same time?

A: Yes, her light cards will give her bad baggage if they show her cards to an opponent. She gets X baggage per opponent (assuming the card says she gets 1 bad baggage each time an opponent looks at her cards).

9. On the Crossroad card, "Get her off me!" Caprice gains baggage "each time she looks at one or more cards in another player's hand." How much baggage does she gain if she looks at the cards of more than one opponent at the same time?

A: One baggage per opponent (Again, assuming that's how much baggage the card says she gets each time).

10. On the Light twilight card, "Our agents are looking into it," Caprice's player gets to look at multiple cards and "place one card on the bottom" of the appropriate deck. Does this card go to the face-up discard section of that deck or to the bottom of the face-down draw section of that deck?

A: Treat this as though it said to discard the card instead. (So it goes to the bottom of the face-up discard section of the deck)

11. On the Dark twilight card, "Why Weren't You At the Deposition?" the text reads in part, "Play when Caprice follows up a lead. That lead produces no evidence.." Can the lead being followed up instead be used to uncover part of the conspiracy? Or is this considered to fully expend the benefits of following up the lead?

A: No, the lead is fully expended, and just moves.

12. On several twilight cards, an opponent is instructed to name a Plot and "draw three cards at random from Caprice's hand." Do the random cards come from her full hand of twilight cards, or just her Light cards? If her full hand, is the opponent allowed to ask the Caprice player to show whose cards she has in her hand before they name the Plot?

A: Her full hand, and yes, her opponent may ask to see the backs of her cards before choosing a plot.

-- Raymond

13. On the Start card, "Haunted By The Past," Raymond gains baggage when  he "sacrifices" a piece of evidence. This clearly happens before placing a piece of evidence. Does this happen before or after Raymond looks at the value on the piece of evidence? Is the sacrificed piece returned to the evidence pool or returned to the box?

A: Ray may look at the evidence before sacrificing it, and the evidence returns to the pool.

14. On the Crossroad card, "You Were Right, Ray!" Raymond gains good baggage "for each Light card he draws on his turn after the first two." Does 'first two' mean the first two Light cards he draws after the Crossroad card comes into play? Or does it mean the first two Light cards he draws each turn?

A: Each turn.

15. On the same card, Raymond gains bad baggage "every time another player draws and reveals one of his Dark Haunted By The Past cards." After the card is revealed, does it stay in the opponent's hand, or is it discarded?

A: It stays in the opponent's hand. He's just showing Ray that he has it when he draws it.

16. On the Dark twilight card, "Sir, there's a dress code," the text reads, "Play when Raymond enters a ritzy location to cancel that action. He cannot enter that location again this turn." What exactly is being cancelled? Raymond's move to the ritzy location? If that's the case, he would lose the time spent moving and return back to the location he was in before moving, right?

A: Your interpretation is correct.

---

OK, that's what I have for tonight. Thanks!

There you go. In general, discarding or sacrificing anything returns it to the pool or deck it came from.



#6 Mike

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 08:50 AM

While you're here, Kevin - does sacrificing a card towards a specific effect cost me time?

(Got only two wrong! Not too shabby! :))



#7 KevinW

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:31 AM

No, sacrificing doesn't cost any Time (unless you're sacrificing Time). However, you can only sacrifice things on your own turn.

Mike said:

While you're here, Kevin - does sacrificing a card towards a specific effect cost me time?

(Got only two wrong! Not too shabby! :))



#8 Mike

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:45 AM

Thank you, Master Jedi!



#9 sko

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 11:00 AM

Awesome, thanks so much, Kevin.

I'm expecting to get another game in tomorrow night. If anything comes up, I'll post again.. but I don't expect to have another list of the same, er, volume anytime soon. =)



#10 Eldil

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Posted 17 December 2008 - 07:10 AM

KevinW said:

5. On the Crossroad card, "I Can't Take Your Money," Rachel gains bad baggage for each $1,000 she "loses". Does she gain baggage when she spends her money?

A: Spending is not losing, no.

Is "sacrificing" losing, then? I only noticed one Rachel twilight card with the word "loses.", but some have the wording "sacrifice X amount of money."

"This is a disaster." = "...she loses $2,000."

"I hate to ask for it, Rachel but..." = "...must either sacrifice $2,000 or gain two greed."

"I forgot about this bill." = "...must sacrifice $1,000, if she has it."



#11 Saramund

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 03:34 AM

I think you actively sacrifice cards, whereas you are forced to lose cards.


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#12 thirdpoliceman

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 11:57 AM

KevinW said:

 

My answers are below, inside the quote.

sko said:

 

Following our first game of Android, and a subsequent re-reading of the rules and cards, we have come up with the following questions. Not all of them came up during play, in fact, many are being asked proactively. Any help is appreciated.

-- Floyd

6. On the Crossroad card, "What Makes A Soul?" Floyd gains good baggage "for every different type of location he enters on his turn after the first." We interpreted this to mean that, each turn, Floyd gains one good baggage whenever he enters a [type] location for the first time on that individual turn, with the exception of the first such type each turn. Is this correct?

A: Correct. (And remember, type is shown by color on the map.)

KevinW said:

-- Raymond

15. On the same card, Raymond gains bad baggage "every time another player draws and reveals one of his Dark Haunted By The Past cards." After the card is revealed, does it stay in the opponent's hand, or is it discarded?

A: It stays in the opponent's hand. He's just showing Ray that he has it when he draws it.

 

I've had to edit this as I messed up the quotations I was trying to make.  How do I edit BB code after I've made a post?

Thanks for the great game, I've played 2 complete games so far and I am having a wonderful time with it.

Here are my two questions regarding the two questions quoted above.

-- Floyd

6. I played Floyd last night as wasn't quite sure about this mechanic.  Does this mean if I enter a blue location on my first move, I do not gain any  baggage for moving into another blue locations for the rest of the turn, or does it mean I don't get baggage for the first location I move into, but, from there on out, for each different colour I enter I get a baggage? 

-- Raymond

15. As well, for this plot we played that the player had to hand the card to Ray and let him read it, is this the intention, or do we merely have to flip the card over and show Ray that it is the correct colour?



#13 LinkN

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 04:29 PM

I would assume that "reveal" includes showing Ray's player the entire card and letting him read it.  Since generally, you'd have to show him the name of the card, he'd be able to know what the card does if he's familiar with his dark deck.

Plus, that gives a nice choice to Ray's opponents - do they show the card now for the baggage, or do they keep it hidden so Ray doesn't know what's coming up?



#14 thirdpoliceman

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 08:25 AM

The plots are colour coded though, so it is possible to simply show the player the colour, and, if it is the same colour as the plot in question, the player would be able to tell without reading the text.



#15 Nomadic0ne

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 09:18 AM

Hello all!

I just discovered this game and my friends and I have played two games so far and are starting to get the hang of the rules.

(We love it so far!!)

Not to change the current topic, but we had a question about evidence.

Specifically, regarding the handling of exposed evidence (via other cards, events, etc.) and cards/actions that allow you to discard x number of peices of evidence "without looking at them".

We debated whether the exposed evidence was fair game to be discarded or if you could only choose from the pieces that remained face down?

 

Thanks ahead of time for any insight!



#16 Saramund

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Posted 29 April 2009 - 08:25 PM

Hi Kevin,

why did you write spending is not losing (for Rachel's purposes) while I read the other way round in the FAQ sheet?

thank you

 


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