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Career Conversion Kit (once and for all) WFRP2 to WFRP3


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#1 Emirikol

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 10:36 AM

Due to the severe lack of Advanced careers and career path's, I decided to come up with THE FORMULA for conversion from WFRP2 to WFRP3.  Since this isn't rocket science I look forwards to intense debate and overcomplication on the topic:

Characteristics Primary = match them up! (pick two from which ones look the most important)
Stance meter: pick neutral, reckless or cautious
Advances (needs to total 10):
Action  (0-3), Talent (0-2) , Skill (0-4) ,Fortune (usually 1)
Stance Advance: Cons (0-1), Reck (0-1)
Wound = (0-3) (match it up)

Talent Slots: Pick two relevant slots to theme of character (Faith, Focus, order, reputation, tactic or trick).  Spellcasters should have 3rd slot for faith/order.
Career Card: Main WFRP2 Talent determines the general idea for the “ability card” of the career.

SKILLS: Pick 5 from the conversion below.  (spellcasters get 6..one must be channeling/invocation).  If someone would do a spell conversion we'd be finished :)


WFRP2 WFRP3 SKILL CONVERSION
Academic Knowledge         Education
Animal Care                         Animal Handling
Animal Training                   Animal Handling
Ballistic Skill                        Ballistic Skill
Blather                                  Guile
Channelling                           Channeling (arcane) or Invocation (divine)
Charm                              Charm
Charm Animal                   Animal Handling
Command                         Leadership
Common Knowledge      Folklore
Concealment                  Stealth
Consume Alcohol           Resilience
Disguise                          Guile
Dodge Blow                   Coordination
Drive                                Ride
Evaluate                          Intuition
Follow Trail                     Nature Lore
Gamble                        Guile
Gossip                          Charm
Haggle                         Charm
Heal                              First Aid (or medicine if relevant)
Hypnotism                   Charm
Intimidate                      Intimidate
Lip Reading                Observation
Magical Sense             Magical Sights
Navigation                     Intuition
Outdoor Survival           Nature Lore
Perception                      Observation
Performer                     Tradecraft
Pick Lock                      Skullduggery
Prepare Poison          Medicine
Read/Write                 Education
Ride                             Ride
Row                            Athletics
Sail                                 Athletics
Scale Sheer Surface     Athletics
Search                           Observation
Secret Language        Education
Secret Signs                 Guile
Set Trap                          Skullduggery
Shadowing                    Stealth
Silent Move                       Stealth
Sleight of Hand               Skullduggery
Speak Language            Education (illiterate unless 2nd point spent)
Swim                               Athletics
Torture                          Intimidation
Trade                             Tradecraft
Ventriloquism              Guile
Weapon Skill                Weapon Skill
 

 

Thoughts, improvements, sample conversions, etc. are welcome.

 

Enjoy,

 

Jay H



#2 Emirikol

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 11:04 AM

ADVANCEMENT BREAKDOWN THEORY.

Action - is your career action-oriented (base 2)

Talent - is your career talented? (base 2)

Skill - higher in non-D&D careers, lower in fighters  (base 2)

Fortune - "luck-dependent" careers higher (base 1)

Cons. or Reck. -  (Base 2 total)

Wound - has to do with combativeness (base 1)



#3 Emirikol

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 11:50 AM

Here are a couple quick conversions I did up.  Formatting is not looking good on these forums though :(

 

Career Type Ch Stn Sockets A T Sk F C R W Skills Career Card Entry Requirements
Monk A I, W C Fa, Fo 1 2 3 1 2 1 0 Education, Folklore, FirstAid, Animal, Linguistics Relevant (scribe, initiate, etc.)
Muleskinner B A, I N R,Fo 2 2 2 2 1 0 1 Animal, Intuition, Charm, Nature, Ballistic Orientation or seasoned traveller N/a
Navigator A I,W N F,F 2 2 2 1 1 1 1 Education, Intuition, Observation, Folklore, Trade (cartographer) Orientation Traveller or boatman
Outlaw Chief A T,F R R,T 2 2 1 1 0 2 2 Folklore, Leadership, Stealth, Ride, Guile Combat Relevant
Pistolier A A,I N R,T 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 Animal, Coordination, Observation, Ride, Discipline Combat Relevant (soldier, etc.)
 



#4 r_b_bergstrom

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 12:18 PM

Thank you, Emirikol!

I've been mulling over the same thing for several days now. In fact, at the point where I popped over here to read the forums, I actually have/had Strange Eons open in the background, just playing with building a card for Charcoal-Burner. Not that Charcoal-Burner is uber-awesome or anything, but I just wanted to figure out how one would go about converting a completely mundane and basic career. I pop to the forums - and voila, someone's beat me to a formula!

Here's a few things I think are worth considering:

Some skills in 3rd Ed are much more rare than others. Here's a few things I noticed while looking over 3rd Ed career sheets earlier today:

  • Even though Medicine appears in the rulebook, NONE of the careers in the current batch of career sheets include it. Three have First Aid, zero have Medicine.
  • Of the four "spellcasting skills", three of them appear on just two career sheets. However the Piety skill (primarily used for generating favour for divine blessings) actually appears on 5 careers (initiate, disciple, zealot, flagellant and witch-hunter). Nothing on your list would convert to it, so we probably need to look at that.
  • Only one career in the current batch (Burgher) has Tradecraft. I'm not sure if that's intentionally to keep it rare/exceptional, I think it may just have more to do with the type of careers they put in 3rd Ed. I see this more as "open design space" than as a restriction/rarity.
  • The most common skill in 3rd Ed is Intuition. 15 of the existing careers have it. I mention this because on your list, only Evaluate and Navigation convert to it. Discipline is right behind it, appearing on 14 careers in 3rd Ed, but not even showing up on your list.  What does one resist social rolls with in 2nd Ed? It's been so long since I've done any 2nd Ed gaming I can't remember.

 

As I look over that list, I wonder if some of those oddball 2nd Ed skills might be better served as Talents or Actions in 3rd Ed. I'm talking about things like Ventriloquism, Lip Reading, Hypnotism, Prepare Poison, Torture, etc.

 



#5 Emirikol

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Posted 19 March 2010 - 12:28 PM

rb,

Here are some comparisons I did considering the specializations of each skill:

WFRP3  to WFRP2 conversions (specializations underneath)

Athletics (St) ROW/SWIM/SCALESHEER/SAIL
Climbing, Swimming, Jumping, Rowing, Running, Lifting
Ballistic Skill (Ag) BALLISTIC SKILL
Bow, Crossbow, Thrown, Blackpowder
Charm (Fel) CHARM, GOSSIP, HAGGLE,hypnotism
Etiquette, Gossip, Diplomacy, Haggling,Seduction
Coordination (Ag) DODGE BLOW
Dodge, Balance, Acrobatics, Juggling, Dance, Knots & Ropes
Discipline (WP) NONE
Resist Charm, Resist Guile, Resist Intimidation, Resist Fear, Resist Terror, Resist Torture
First Aid (Int) HEAL (ADV),
Combat Surgery, Long Term Care, Tending Critical Wounds, Tending Normal Wounds
Folklore (Int) KNOWLEDGE (COMMON)
Creature Lore, Reikland lore, Geography, Superstitions, Local customs
Guile (Fel) DISGUISE, GAMBLE, BLATHER, SECRET SIGNS, VENTRILOQUISM
Deception, Blather, Con games, Innuendo, Appear innocent
Intimidate (St) INTIMIDATE, TORTURE
Violence, Combat, Interrogation, Politics
Intuition (Int) EVALUATE
Detect lies, Estimate Sums, Evaluation, Gauge opponent
Leadership (Fel) COMMAND
Military leadership, Politician, Logistics, Spiritual Leader
Nature Lore (Int) OUTDOOR SURVIVAL, FOLLOW TRAIL(ADV)
Locate shelter, Locate food, Locate Water, Identify animal, identify plant
Observation (Int) PERCEPTION, SEARCH, LIP READING (ADV)
Eavesdropping, Tracking, Keen Vision, Minute details
Resilience (To) CONSUME ALCOHOL
Block, Recover fatigue, Resist disease, Resist poison, Resist starvation
Ride (Ag) RIDE/DRIVE
Horsemanship, Trick riding, Wagons, Mounted combat, Long distance travel
Skullduggery (Ag) PICK LOCK, SET TRAP, SLEIGHT OF HAND
Pick pockets, Pick locks, Set traps, Disable traps, Palm objects
Stealth (Ag) SILENT MOVE & CONCEALMENT, SHADOWING
Silent movement: Rural -or-Urban, Hide, Ambush
Weapon Skill (St) WEAPON SKILL
Hand Weapons, Great Weapons, Polearms, Parry, Parry w/ great weapon, etc.
NONE 2E
SECRET LANGUAGE

Advanced Skills
Animal Handling (Fel) ANIMAL CARE (WAS BASIC, ANIMAL HANDLING, CHARM ANIMAL
Command, Train, Sense Disposition, Calm Animal
Channeling (WP) CHANNELING (ARCANE)
Below Capacity, Overchanneling, Conservative, Reckless, others
Education (Int) COMMON KNOWLEDGE, /READ/WRITE, SPEAK LANGUAGE (ILLITERATE), SECRET LANGUAGE
History, Geography, Reason, Language skills, Philosophy
Invocation (Fel) CHANNELING (DIVINE)
Per diety, Tradition, Rituals, Tenets
Magical Sights (Int) MAGICAL SENSE
Observe specific Wind, Identify spell, Locate aura, dark magic, gauge strength
Medicine (Int) PREPARE POISON, HEAL (ADV)
Critical wounds, Poison, Disease, Long term care, surgery
Piety (WP) ACADEMIC KNOWLEDGE (DIVINE)
Below capacity, Conservative, Reckless, Urgent need
Spellcraft (Int) ACADEMIC KNOWLEDGE (ARCANE)
History of Magic, Colleges, Rank 1-5 spells
Tradecraft (Varies) NAVIGATION, PERFORMER, TRADE
Smithing, Carpentry, Jewelry making, brewing, Engineering, Performance
 



#6 r_b_bergstrom

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 03:31 AM

Emirikol said:

rb,

Here are some comparisons I did considering the specializations of each skill:

Your comparisons are astute, and helpful to see. Saved me some work, there, so thanks again.

The only problem with an A=B direct conversion is that certain skills that are vital in 3rd Ed have no good analog in 2nd Ed. As I mentioned, there's not much that converts to 3rd Ed's Discipline and Intuition, but they're pretty vital skills for resisting Social Actions and even some magic (Curse, Bewilder, etc). So the direct conversion is a great starting point, but some of the missing skills will need to be inserted into various careers, or else the actions they resist against will be extra potent at the higher tiers of play. Shouldn't be too hard to shoe-horn those in, though.



#7 r_b_bergstrom

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 03:57 AM

To help with the balancing new Career Abilities as we convert or create new careers, here's a list of all the Career abilities from the existing 3rd Ed Basic Careers:

  • Add 1 Fortune die to your Melee Attacks whenever you are in an engagement with more than two combatants.
  • Add 1 fortune point to the party's fortune pool the first time you suffer stress during an encounter.
  • Add 5 to your encumbrance limit.
  • During a Rally step, you may remove 1 recharge token from any one of your currently recharging action cards, or from an action of any character engaged with you.
  • During each Rally Step in combat, recover 1 fatigue and 1 stress
  • Each time fortune refreshes, you may immediately perform a free manoeuvre.
  • Invocation checks for Rank 1 or lower blessings gain 1 Fortune die.
  • Once per session, you may add an Expertise die to any Charm or Leadership check.
  • Once per session, you may add an Expertise die to any Education or Folklore check.
  • Once per session, you may add an Expertise die to any First Aid or Medicine check.
  • Once per session, you may add an Expertise die to any Guile or Skulduggery check.
  • Once per session, you may add an Expertise die to any Intimidate or Ride check.
  • Once per session, you may add an Expertise die to any Observation or Stealth check.
  • Once per session, you may add an Expertise die to any Ride check or to a Ballistic Skill check made while mounted or while on a moving vehicle.
  • Once per session, you may add an Expertise die to any single Weapon Skill check you make.
  • Once per session, you may exhaust your insanity talent to add fortune dice to any check equal to the severity of the insanity. The insanity automatically refreshes at the end of the current act.
  • Once per session, you may name one adversary as your quarry. Add a Fortune die to all Observation, Intuition, Melee Attack and Range Attack checks targeting your quarry for the remainder of the encounter.
  • Once per session, you may re-roll the entire dice pool for any single check. Dice cannot be changed or added to the pool. You must accept the new result.
  • Once per session, you may suffer one stress and one fatigue to add an Expertise die to any skill check.
  • Once per session, you may treat any one untrained basic skill as if it were trained, or you may attempt one advanced skill as if you had acquired it.
  • Once per session, you may treat your Fellowship characteristic as if it were one point higher.
  • Spellcraft checks for Rank 1 or lower spells gain 1 Fortune die.
  • When one of your Melee Attacks inflicts at least one critical wound, you may immediately flip one of your currently recharging action cards so the opposite stance side is revealed. The number of recharge tokens on the card remains the same.
  • Whenever fortune refreshes, recover one fatigue.
  • While in a Slayer career, you cannot wear armour, but have a natural Defence of 1 and a natural soak value equal to 1+ the number of Slayer careers you have completed.
  • You gain 1 Fortune die to Nature Lore checks to track animals and beasts, Observation checks to notice animals and beasts, and Ballistic Skill checks to attack animals and beasts.
  • You have a Greatsword of Hoeth. Take the Greatsword of Hoeth item card. You cannot give away, sell, lend or trade this sword.
  • You have a set of Gromril Plate Armour. Take the Gromil Plate Armour item card. You cannot give away, sell, lend, or trade this armour.
  • You have a small but vicious dog. Take the small but vicious dog follower sheet. You can teach your dog Trick talents and attach them to its sheet.
  • You inflict +1 damage against henchmen and against any target with a lower strength than yours.
  • You may remove one Misfortune die from your dice pool when attempting Athletics, Coordination, Stealth or Discipline checks while on a boat, ship, or unstable surface.
  • Your combat initiative checks gain 2 Fortune dice.
  • Your Education checks gain: boon-boon: Add 1 fortune to the party fortune pool.
  • Your Skulduggery checks gain: boon-boon: Add 1 fortune to the party fortune pool.
  • Your social initiative checks gain 2 Fortune dice.
     

As you can see, the single most common ability is an extra Expertise die to a particular type of roll, once per session. So, when in doubt, that's probably the way to go, at least for new Basic Careers. The next most common effect is to add a Fortune die to all rolls of a relatively narrow subset of a particular skill, similar to a specialty.

After those two categories, the rest of the abilities are pretty much all over the board, and harder to make generalizations about.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

The abilities of the 5 existing Advanced / Intermediate Careers are:

  • Once per session, you may immediately increase your soak value by the severity of the insanity you have attached to your career sheet.
  • When you have less favour than your Willpower rating, your Piety checks gain a Fortune die.
  • While you have less power than your Willpower rating, your Channelling checks gain a Fortune die.
  • You inflict +1 damage against Cultist, Chaos, and Daemon targets.
  • You inflict +1 damage with all Melee Attack actions.

The first and last ones on that list are definitely higher-power than anything on the Basic list, but the others are at most a small step up.



#8 Emirikol

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Posted 20 March 2010 - 08:11 AM

Good work.

Yea, Disclpline and Intuition are probably relevant to any career that isn't overmaxed already with WFRP2 skills & talents.  I actually did a breakdown of the "basic power" of the WFRP2 careers.  I'll see if I can still find it.



#9 r_b_bergstrom

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 11:03 AM

Emirikol said:

 

Advances (needs to total 10):
Action  (0-3), Talent (0-2) , Skill (0-4) ,Fortune (usually 1)
Stance Advance: Cons (0-1), Reck (0-1)
Wound = (0-3) (match it up)

...

ADVANCEMENT BREAKDOWN THEORY.

Action - is your career action-oriented (base 2)

Talent - is your career talented? (base 2)

Skill - higher in non-D&D careers, lower in fighters  (base 2)

Fortune - "luck-dependent" careers higher (base 1)

Cons. or Reck. -  (Base 2 total)

Wound - has to do with combativeness (base 1)

 

 

I made a spreadsheet and took a stab at analyzing and refining those numbers further. Don't know if any of this will actually be useful to anyone else, but here goes anyway...

 

  • Actions: All existing careers have from 1 to 3 Action advancements. Those with 3 are quite rare, being just the Intermediate-level Spellcasters and the Wardancer who will be spending them on Ritual Dance cards. Having just 1 action isn't terribly common, either, and 29 of the existing 40 careers have exactly two Action advances. The average number of actions per career is 1.88.
  • Talents: All existing careers have from 1 to 3 Talent advancements, and the highest number is a little more common than with actions - a total of five basic careers have 3 Talent advances. (As a side note that I'm not sure what to do with, I notice that all 5 of those careers have the Social Keyword, have access to Reputation talents, and do _not_ have access to Tactics talents.) The average number of talents per career is 1.7.
  • Skills: All existing careers have from 1 to 4 Skill advancements. 4's are quite rare - just Student and Scribe. Just under half the careers have 2 skills, but there's a fair number of 1's and 3's as well. The average number of skills per career is 2.13.
  • Fortune: All existing careers have from 1 to 3 Fortune advances, but only the Commoner has the full/max 3. All the intermediate careers only have 1 Fortune advance. The average number of Fortune Dice per career is 1.43.
  • Conservative: All existing careers have from 0 to 2 Conservative advances. Note that these don't always match up with the starting stance pieces of the career. The average number of conservative per career is 0.98.
  • Reckless: All existing careers have from 0 to 2 Conservative advances. Note that these don't always match up with the starting stance pieces of the career. The average number of reckless per career is 0.88
  • Wounds: All existing careers have from 0 to 3 Wound advances. 16 out of 40 careers have a big fat zero in this box, and only four have 3 wounds available. The average number of wounds per career is 1.03.

I also noticed that all the existing careers have between 2 and 5 items total from the top row (Actions and Talents), and between 2 and 5 items total from the second row (Skills and Fortune) of the advances box. You can't have more than half your advances in a single row,  (or at least none of the existing classes do). So there aren't any careers that have, for example, 3 Actions and 3 Talents, nor do any careers skip (have a 0 in) any one of those four things.


Every existing career has from 1 to 3 stance advances total, so if they have a zero in one stance, they'll have at least 1 in the other stance. The commoner is the only career that has 3 stance pieces. 32 out of 40 careers have exactly 2 stance pieces.

And, of course, as you mention, every single career's advances total out to exactly 10.

 

Let's see if I can make that easier to read:

____

  • Actions: 1 to 3, typically exactly 2
  • Talents: 1 to 3

Total in this section: 2 to 5

____

  • Skills: 1 to 4
  • Fortune: 1 to 3

Total in this section: 2 to 5

_____

  • Conservative: 0 to 2
  • Reckless: 0 to 2

Total in this section: 1 to 3

_____

  • Wounds: 0 to 3


#10 keltheos

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Posted 08 April 2010 - 06:10 AM

 Couldn't Gossip convert over to either Charm OR Guile depending on the information/circumstances of the check?

I see that Charm has a specialization for Gossip (which makes it pretty apparent), but wouldn't there be instances where Guile works well/better? When the exchange isn't as 'friendly' when you're gathering information/being careful with how you seek it?



#11 cfbrunner

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 03:50 AM

Bumping this thread since I'm working on a conversation of the Career Compendium to 3E and seeing who might be interested in helping out.

 

Right now, I'm strictly focusing on the main career card, as I think the career talent part will be the easiest to come up with.

 

If you're interested in helping (or already have something to start with), me a line.



#12 plutonick

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 12:34 AM

Sorry for the hijack, but I am desperate. Is there a quick formula to convert NPC and enemies from 1st and 2nd edition published adventures to 3rd?



#13 Emirikol

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 12:33 PM

We really could use an NPC compendium with 0, 5, 10 and 15 advances.  I've just been using some of the NPC's from various sources.  The "experts" in the GM's guide are ok in a pinch, but mostly not all that great.

 

jh



#14 plutonick

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 10:48 PM

I used to think that the white die next to the experts characteristics implied a 'training' in all skills governed by that characteristic, but then i remembered Player Characters can spent an advance for white dice in characteristics, so obviously this is the case with NPCs as well, and not 'training' effort



#15 Emirikol

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 01:18 PM

RESURRECTING THIS THREAD FROM 2010 - IT IS NOW 2012

 

I'm working on a "Reasonably Sane Conversion Document between 2e-3e" for LIBER FANATICA 10 (because we have BIG plans).  Any new feedback is welcome.  General, rough thoughts on the matter are listed below and fairly incomplete at this time:

 I'm putting together a side by side conversion for things that "actually" matter and am taking into consideration that an absolutely accurate conversion is not necessary, and that simple guidelines will be most helpful.

 

For the most part, monsters convert straight up, as do NPC's and characters (skills just need to match up).  Some elements are nonexistent between editions: party sheets, nemesis sheets, fate points, #attacks, henchmen, magic points, insanity points, etc.

 

Recently Ceodryn had a conversion list for checks, but I'm leaning more towards a tighter list that is simply 'more simple'.

Very Easy (+30%) -> Simple (0d)
Easy (+20% ->  Easy (1d)
Routine (+10%) -> Easy (1d)
Average (0%) -> Average (2d)
Challenging (-10%) ->Hard (3d)
Hard (-20%) -> Hard (3d)
Very Hard (-30%) -> Daunting (4d)
 

 

I think we can all agree that monetary conversions were deliberately sabotaged by FFG to reduce the ability for conversion (just kidding..I think ;0….), and that really doesn't matter, but it may be useful to have an idea what "rewards" a GM could give for scenarios.  I usually propose the value be whatever an average mercenary would make in a week:     2e:  35-80s    ======     3e: 250s (there is no range given in 3e)

 

Additional Consideration between the two systems are thus:

2e:  it took roughly twice or three times as many rounds to complete general combats at lower advances than it does in 3e.  That's perfectly ok.  We don't need to get a perfect match between systems.  We just need "close" so a GM can use his brain to still make it useful.

3e: fatigue and stress aren't in 2e.  That's ok.  Any 3e effect that may cause stress/fatigue should simply be moved towards using up an insanity point  (one or zero)   (stress) or ???? conversion of some other skill penalty for a physical (fatigue).  I'm not sure there are any of these kinds of things to convert, but it bears consideration.

3e:  has special actions.  There is no conversion necessary for 2e, or it could simply be a +5 bonus to a skill (weapon skill or whatever).

2e, 3e:  Some stuff just doesn't need to be converted.  FFG didn't have some mathamatician come in and evaluate how they changed the game.  Thankfully, they mostly just "did it."  Consideration of that will help keep us sane.

 

This is just some rough thoughts so far.  If any of you would care to share your experiences in conversion, they would be most welcome.

 

ROUGH DRAFT

Jay’s Guide to Conversion
Keep It Simple Stupid – This doesn’t have to be, nor is it possible to have a perfect conversion. Use bestiary/creature guide entries as much as possible for monsters and NPCs. For NPCs, also reference the Liber Fanatica Pre-Generated characters whenever possible. When converting a scenario, use the closest skill check equivalent with the closest difficulty equivalent.


SKILL CONVERSION CHART (NEED THIS IN EXCEL SO YOU CAN SORT EACH ONE ..DO THIS LIST TWICE, ONCE WITH EACH IN ALPHABETIC ORDER)
WFRP2 WFRP3
Academic Knowledge Education (advanced)
Animal Care Animal Handling
Animal Training Animal Handling
Ballistic Skill Ballistic Skill
Blather Guile
Channeling Channeling (arcane) or Invocation (divine)
Charm Charm
Charm Animal Animal Handling
Command Leadership
Common Knowledge Folklore
Concealment Stealth
Consume Alcohol Resilience
Disguise Guile
Dodge Blow Coordination
Drive Ride
Evaluate Intuition
Follow Trail Nature Lore
Gamble Guile
Gossip Charm
Haggle Charm
Heal First Aid, medicine (if relevant)
Hypnotism Charm
Intimidate Intimidate
Lip Reading Observation
Magical Sense Magical Sights
Navigation Intuition
Outdoor Survival Nature Lore
Perception Observation
Performer Tradecraft
Pick Lock Skullduggery
Prepare Poison Medicine
Read/Write Education
Ride Ride
Row Athletics
Sail Athletics or Ride???
Scale Sheer Surface Athletics
Search Observation
Secret Language Education
Secret Signs Guile
Set Trap Skullduggery
Shadowing Stealth
Silent Move Stealth
Sleight of Hand Skullduggery
Speak Language Education (illiterate unless 2nd point spent)
Swim Athletics
Torture Intimidation
Trade Tradecraft
Ventriloquism Guile
Weapon Skill Weapon Skill
..
OTHER EQUIVALENT CONVERSIONS
Characteristics: straight bonus conversion (50% str = 5 blue dice)
WS/BS = skill == if there is a bonus to this from advancement or career it translates as follows:
+5 or 10% = TRAINED yellow
+15 = Trained plus specialization
+20 = 2nd specialization or 2nd training (depending on career advances)

WFRP2 WFRP3 Equivalent
Movement n/a
Magic points n/a
Attacks n/a (or multi attack actions if appropriate such as rapid fire and double strike)
Fate Points n/a
Insanity Points Each 6 equals a temporary insanity or stress
Disorders Insanities (permanent)
n/a (talents?) ACTION CARDS
Talents Talents
Wounds Use actual WFRP3 rules for wounds
Skills Taken = Yellow
+10 = Spec
+15 =spec
+20 =Spec or fortune die to characteristic, or talent, or action
Etc.
Difficulty p.89 P.50 phb (see my chart)
Very Easy (+30%) Simple (0d)
Easy (+20% Easy (1d)
Routine (+10%) Easy (1d)
Average (0%) Average (2d)
Challenging (-10%) Hard (3d)
Hard (-20%) Hard (3d)
Very Hard (-30%) Daunting (4d)

Skills: Go with chart on left
Money Money (use mercenary income per week)
Items Go straight up with equivalent. Money is irrelevant.
Magic items Bonus white dice instead, also see item quality (black or white)
Weapons Straight up
Armor Suit Only
Drunk rules p.115 See WFRP3 intoxication rules
Poisons N/A – WILL HEED HOUSE RULES
Disease As close as possible
Spells Go as close as possible
Combat Mods’p131 Combat mods in wfrp3 (page #)
Witch Sight Magic Sight
Trappings Convert straight up

Bestiary p.227 CONVERT STRAIGHT UP
NPCs from Bestiary CONVERT STRAIGHT UP (combatants will need conversion or use pre-gens in Liber Fanatica…NEED ADVANCED CAREERS FOR BASIS AND PAGE NUMBERS)

CAREERS Convert as close as possible (just change name of career and use closest equivalent if necessary)

NO CONVERSION NECESSARY
n/a Stance
n/a Fatigue
n/a Stress
Fate Points n/a
Insanity Points n/a
Movement n/a
Strength bonus n/a (determines blue dice)
Toughness bonus n/a (determines blue dice)
Armour Points n/a (suit only)
n/a Shame Rules for Social Actions

Rewards per scenario (per month) – Based on Mercenary Pay
35-80s/month 75s-250s/month
 

 

jh



#16 Yepesnopes

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 07:29 PM

The post is quite long, so I will give my comments split in small pieces.

Converting 2e to 3e is going to be a titanic effort, but this does not mean it cannot be done.

Emirikol said:

Recently Ceodryn had a conversion list for checks, but I'm leaning more towards a tighter list that is simply 'more simple'.

Very Easy (+30%) -> Simple (0d)
Easy (+20% ->  Easy (1d)
Routine (+10%) -> Easy (1d)
Average (0%) -> Average (2d)
Challenging (-10%) ->Hard (3d)
Hard (-20%) -> Hard (3d)
Very Hard (-30%) -> Daunting (4d)

The problem here is that the proficiency level of PCs is not at the same level between the two editions (also the philosophy of the two games is just way too different), therefore translating difficulties is not straight forward. For a PC of the 2nd edition, to succeed in a Very Hard test was nearly impossible at the beginning, since most PC start with skills around 30% in their expertise fields, and around 15% outside their expertise field. Therefore, the possibility to succeed a Very Hard test is 0% (I don't remember if there was a rule where 01 or 01-05 was always a success). On the other hand an starting character in the 3r edition, at the very beginning of his life, will have probabilities at succeeding a Daunting check (4d) between 25 and 34% in their fields of expertise, this is a huge difference. Even for Heroic (5d) checks, 3d edition starting characters have chances of succeeding between 16 and 23%.

This arises because of the different philosophies between the two games. In terms of mathematics, a more correct way of converting editions will be to start as "Very Easy (+30%) -> Easy (1d)" and add a challenge die for every step of difficulty, so "Very Hard (-30%) -> XXXXX (7d)". In this way, starting characters will have similar success ratios at low difficulty tasks, and a very proficient character in the 3rd edition will have around 46% of succeeding a 7d check, very close to a very proficient 2nd edition character which would have something around 50% probabilities at succeeding a "Very Hard" check.


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#17 ragnar63

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 08:58 PM

Hi all,

Jay is right about Liber Fanatica's plans. More on that later.

I agree with Yepesnopes about task difficulties. Having played 2nd edition Pathes of the Damned I have been looking at converting it to 3rd edition. Most of the conversion is simple, particularly with the stuff on this thread. However for the skill roll difficulties I came up with this table which worked reasonably well. I have stuck to FFG's idea of not going above 5 challenge dice, using misfortune dice above that. However there is no reason that the Very Hard dice roll could not be six challenge dice, GM's preference.

Difficulty: 
Very Easy (+30%) Simple (0d)
Easy (+20%) Easy (1d)
Routine (+10%) Average (2d)
Average (0%) Hard (3d)
Challenging (-10%) Daunting (4d)
Hard (-20%) Heroic (5d)
Very Hard (-30%) Heroic+ (5d + 2 Misfortune dice or 6 d)

All the best,

Ralph



#18 gruntl

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 10:56 PM

Yepesnopes said:

 

This arises because of the different philosophies between the two games. In terms of mathematics, a more correct way of converting editions will be to start as "Very Easy (+30%) -> Easy (1d)" and add a challenge die for every step of difficulty, so "Very Hard (-30%) -> XXXXX (7d)". In this way, starting characters will have similar success ratios at low difficulty tasks, and a very proficient character in the 3rd edition will have around 46% of succeeding a 7d check, very close to a very proficient 2nd edition character which would have something around 50% probabilities at succeeding a "Very Hard" check.

 

You are of course correct in that the games use very different philosophies. In my opinion this makes a straight conversion more or less impossible (or rather pointless). If you really want to convert 2nd ed. skill tests to 3rd ed. you should focus on making the 2nd ed.binary result scale (success/failure) into a 3rd ed. "branching" result scale (success with comets, success with boons, success with banes, …, failure with banes, failure with chaos stars).

I tend to use Ceodryns scale that Emirokol posted, and then spend some time on actually thinking through what will happen to the players and story when the dice show a "branching" result. Success may be easier to achieve in 3rd ed., but it very often comes with a price (even a 5th rank PC will have a ~40% risk of getting at least one chaos star on a Daunting check).

So I suggest that a general skill check conversion method should include a recommendation to figure out how the skill check can be expanded from a binary test into the 3rd ed approach.



#19 Yepesnopes

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:20 PM

gruntl said:

So I suggest that a general skill check conversion method should include a recommendation to figure out how the skill check can be expanded from a binary test into the 3rd ed approach.

Very good observation here. In 2nd edition you only have the option to achieve different degree of success (more or less direct translation to the number of hammers) , but no easy way to convert boons and banes o Chaos Stars and Comets.

hammers + comets could be translated as a critcal success in warhammer 2

failure + chaos star could be translated as a critical miss in warhammer 2


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#20 Emirikol

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:18 AM

Add dice per step.  That would be fine, but I think you're on to something when you talk about the philosophies of the games.  In 2e, you were expected to fail a couple times before success.  In 3e, you're expected to succeed, but "how" you succeed is the difference (hence the 80+% chance to succeed at 1difficulty).  3e focuses more on the consequences of your attempt rather than succeed/fail, so that's where I have the idea that higher fail chances in 2e aren't really worth5,6,7 purple dice (each with terrible consequences of failure)

Because of the time to roll and evaluate has also been lengthened, trying a 2e approach of fail, fail, fail, succeed could take an entire game session.  I think a happy medium is the way to go on the skill checks and it's just understood that there is no "perfect conversion."  Some casualties of conversion will simply have to be adjudicated by the GM.

 

I did forget to add the "epic 5d" difficulty.  I'll squeeze that in.

 

Good feedback.

 

Thanks,

 

jh






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