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#1 Yooper

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 02:45 AM

 I am somewhat new to 40k, I just started with the release of DH.  So my question is, what EXACTLY is a space marine?  Why do half the posters here think they can't be roleplayed?  To me this looks way more roleplayable(?) than RT.

Thank You.



#2 taugundrone

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 02:57 AM

To answer your questions, A space marine is a 2.5 meter tall genetically engineered, brain wiped, kilmaimburn machine that carries a 25 mm bullet, semi-auto rocket-propelled grenade launcher pistol, as a standard sidearm. other include the assault rifle variant, the heavy machine-gun variant, and the variant that glues 6 of the assault rifles together. Many posters do not believe they can be roleplayed because they are BRAIN WIPED!!!!! How are they more roleplayable than soulless capitalists?



#3 Rant

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 03:10 AM

Not all Space Marines are brain wiped.  Actually MOST aren't.  I think the Grey Knights are the only ones that do it as an all the time practice but I could be wrong on that. 



#4 Savage

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 03:27 AM

Brain wiped? Really? Never heard of that being done to them before. Intensive training and hypno-indroctination yes, but not brain wiped.

If they were brain wiped then they would be personality devoid and non-roleplayable.

And they're only about 2.1m tall (7').



#5 macd21

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 03:29 AM

 

 

 

Yooper said:

 

 I am somewhat new to 40k, I just started with the release of DH.  So my question is, what EXACTLY is a space marine?  Why do half the posters here think they can't be roleplayed?  To me this looks way more roleplayable(?) than RT.

Thank You.

 

 

Space Marines are the most elite forces the Imperium has. They are extremely rare and are regarded almost as living warrio-saints by the majority of the population.

The problem many people have with them is that they see them as 2-dimensional characters with limited roleplaying options. Space Marines are soldiers who are dedicated to killing the enemies of mankind. They also kind of stick out. There are a lot of adventure stories that they are completely unsuitable for - such as going undercover in a heretical cult (they kind of stick out) or negotiating trade agreements with merchant houses - but that's what Dark Heresy and Rogue Trader are for.

Many people are under the mistaken impression that marines are without personality, but this isn't really the case. Even the most 'standard' of marines (like the Ultramarines) have concerns such as honour, glory, ambition, remorse, comradeship, hate, anger etc - y'know, like other humans. Other chapters are essentially different cultures - the Space Wolves are basically vikings, the Black Templars are religious crusaders, the Dark Angels are a mysterious order or warrior-monks with dark secrets. Now combine all of the above into one roleplaying group...

Ultramarine: Come brothers, let us advance upon the enemy using attack pattern delta, for the glory of the Emperor!
Space Wolf: **** attack pattern delta, let's just charge! Raaaaargh! (runs straight at the enemy camp).

Ultramarine: No, wait, we should...

Black Templar: Before engaging the foul xenos I must complete the ritual of clensing, to prepare myself for the coming battle... (kneels in the mud and starts praying)

Ultramarine: But... attack pattern delta... and where is Brother Angelus?

Dark Angel: - (is not present, sneaked into the enemy camp the night before, slit their throats, took the intelligence data they were meant to recover and sold it to a Rogue Trader in exchange for the location of a certain someone his Chapter Master has ordered him to assassinate...)



#6 Kanluwen

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 03:52 AM

Brain wipes aren't used on Astartes, as far as I'm aware. They're far too valuable.

They're used on failed Aspirants/serfs before their conversions to Servitors(if they can't be salvaged for another purpose), criminals before their conversions to Servitors, or on rare events on Guard units deemed too valuable to terminate after exposure to taint.



#7 Aajav-Khan

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 04:30 AM

macd21 said:

Ultramarine: Come brothers, let us advance upon the enemy using attack pattern delta, for the glory of the Emperor!

Space Wolf: **** attack pattern delta, let's just charge! Raaaaargh! (runs straight at the enemy camp).

Ultramarine: No, wait, we should...

Black Templar: Before engaging the foul xenos I must complete the ritual of clensing, to prepare myself for the coming battle... (kneels in the mud and starts praying)

Ultramarine: But... attack pattern delta... and where is Brother Angelus?

Dark Angel: - (is not present, sneaked into the enemy camp the night before, slit their throats, took the intelligence data they were meant to recover and sold it to a Rogue Trader in exchange for the location of a certain someone his Chapter Master has ordered him to assassinate...)

  . I would have made the last lines something like this:

Raven Guard:-( Is not present, sneaked into enemy camp the night before and killed them. )

Dark Angel: When none of the others were looking, took possession of a certain data crystal. It might contain information of an individual the Chapter has been pursuing for quite some time...)

Iron Hands: Is also not present. He is busy executing the auxiliary PDF unit for "cowardice and incompetence". Apparently the scary Xenos were a bit too much for the recruits.

Salamanders: Went to the local village to see if there is something he could do to help the civilians.

White Scar: Is sulking because he could not bring his bike with him on this mission. Do the locals have any horses on this planet? Might as well follow the Salamander...

 



#8 Kanluwen

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 04:35 AM

Why would the Iron Hand be executing the local PDF for cowardice and incompetence?

Makes no sense. They're not called "Iron Hands" because of discipline, they're called it because of the vast amount of cybernetic and augmetics they replace their standard body with...



#9 facepalm

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 04:59 AM

Here's a comparison...

If you know about the Halo games...

They are a thousand groups of a thousand 9 foot Master Chiefs on steroids.

I think that does them justice.

Oh and they have more personality (most of the time)



#10 Aajav-Khan

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 05:13 AM

Kanluwen said:

Why would the Iron Hand be executing the local PDF for cowardice and incompetence?

Makes no sense. They're not called "Iron Hands" because of discipline, they're called it because of the vast amount of cybernetic and augmetics they replace their standard body with...

     The point is that the IH are really fanatical about avoiding and purging "weakness". In the flesh or the mind. In their Chapter this manifests in the heavy application of bionics and closely mirrors the beliefs of the Mechanicum. This part is actually a nod for the Iron Hands novel. It contains a scene where the Marines come across a group of shell schocked Guardsmen and curse them for being "weak". They them promptly execute them. 

       The Iron Hands are not "nice Marines" by any definition.



#11 LETE

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 05:27 AM

facepalm said:

Here's a comparison...

If you know about the Halo games...

They are a thousand groups of a thousand 9 foot Master Chiefs on steroids.

I think that does them justice.

Oh and they have more personality (most of the time)

 

Kinda pasty-looking, too.

 

L



#12 Mjoellnir

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 05:56 AM

Meet a few of the honourable battle brothers of the Blood Ravens chapter:

And no, they are not mind-wiped, there are only two chapters that definitely do that. One are the Grey Knights, who really try to purge everything human about themselves to give demons no way to manipulate them. The others are the Dark Angels who do that to battle brothers that find out to much about the history of their chapter before being introduced to the inner circle. 



#13 Savage

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 06:25 AM

facepalm said:

They are a thousand groups of a thousand 9 foot Master Chiefs on steroids.

Once again...they aren't 9' tall. They're 7'.

But 'Master Chiefs on steroids'...yeah, that sounds about right.



#14 macd21

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 06:44 AM

Yooper said:

 I am somewhat new to 40k, I just started with the release of DH.  So my question is, what EXACTLY is a space marine?  Why do half the posters here think they can't be roleplayed?  To me this looks way more roleplayable(?) than RT.

Thank You.

Also, this:

http://www.spacemarine.com/#/en/trailers/



#15 John24

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 09:22 AM

Rant said:

Not all Space Marines are brain wiped.  Actually MOST aren't.  I think the Grey Knights are the only ones that do it as an all the time practice but I could be wrong on that. 

As I understand it, yes the Grey Knights are the only Space Marines to get brainwiped.  Mind, the Brain wiping is voluntary, if you get invited to join the grey knights you have to go thru it, not sure what happens if you refuse the wipe, but I'm pretty sure you can refuse.  The Grey Knights get brain wiped at the start of their training because they deal directly with Chaos and Demons, and anything from their pasts can feasably be used against them.  So to prevent the Demons and Chaos in general from tempting them / using their pasts for psycological warfare the Grey Knights basically erase their own pasts.

At least thats how I understood it from the explanation given in the Grey Knights novels. 



#16 LuciusT

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 10:36 AM

Yooper said:

 I am somewhat new to 40k, I just started with the release of DH.  So my question is, what EXACTLY is a space marine?  Why do half the posters here think they can't be roleplayed?  To me this looks way more roleplayable(?) than RT.

Thank You.

What is a Space Marine? A Space Marine is a biologically altered super-soldier dedicated to the defense of the Imperium. They are created from pre-adolescent human males, who are implanted with a series of genetically engineered organs which alter human growth and development. The process, which takes years and which not all survive, ultimately creates a 7'+ tall warrior who is superhumanly strong and and tough (like crush skulls barehanded strong and shrug off small caliber bullets naked tough), doesn't need to sleep, is virtually immune to poison and disease, oh and spits acid. Equiped with power armor and bolters as standard wargear, they are the front line soldiers of the Imperiums wars.

Why can't they be roleplayed? A Space Marine is a militant monk and has been since about the age of 10. Their typically "peacetime" day is divided between prayer and live fire exercises. Their only time outside of their fortress monestaries is spent on the battlefield (or enroute to or from new battlefields). In short, they don't have a big social life. The common perception of a Space Marine, with a lot of justification, is of a psychotic killing machine with the social skills of a particularly violent pre-teen, who has been indoctrinated in the worst and most violent xenophobic philosophies of the Imperium. Not really a lot of room for investigation, intrigue and drama there. However, Black Library has a number of novels with Space Marine protagonists, showing them in a more "playable" light.

All in all, my vision of a Space Marine roleplaying game would be a seriously military focuses game... lots of preparing for combat,having  combat, and gearing up for the next combat. Not a lot of investigation, intrigue or scheming like in Dark Heresy. Not a lot of wheeling and dealing like in Rogue Trader.



#17 MILLANDSON

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 12:06 PM

John24 said:

Rant said:

 

Not all Space Marines are brain wiped.  Actually MOST aren't.  I think the Grey Knights are the only ones that do it as an all the time practice but I could be wrong on that. 

 

 

As I understand it, yes the Grey Knights are the only Space Marines to get brainwiped.  Mind, the Brain wiping is voluntary, if you get invited to join the grey knights you have to go thru it, not sure what happens if you refuse the wipe, but I'm pretty sure you can refuse.  The Grey Knights get brain wiped at the start of their training because they deal directly with Chaos and Demons, and anything from their pasts can feasably be used against them.  So to prevent the Demons and Chaos in general from tempting them / using their pasts for psycological warfare the Grey Knights basically erase their own pasts.

At least thats how I understood it from the explanation given in the Grey Knights novels. 

You don't get "invited" to join the Grey Knights, they are an entire chapter in their own right with their own geneseed and the like.


~Yea, Tho I Walk Through The Valley Of The Shadow Of Death, I Shall Fear No Evil~

 

Posts/views/opinions are in no way representative of FFG, and are entirely my own.


#18 Hellebore

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 12:18 PM

Before the indication that the grey knight geneseed was a product of traitor geneseed from those that remained loyal, my pet theory was that they were in fact a successor chapter to the Custodes. The custodes couldn't relinquish their role as guardians of the Emperor, but they still wished to fight to protect His domains. They created the grey knights for this purpose.

I also like to think that the custodes send their recruits on decades long crusades to weed out the weakest until only the strongest, battle hardened individuals remain. Thus you don't get the impression that the custodes haven't actually fought anything for the last 10,000 years.

 

Anyway, that's OTT.

In the original background a space marine was a psychologically brain washed criminal (hence why the Terran Marines are like that).

 

They can be roleplayed but the areas they will actually be required to do that are going to be very specific.

 

Hellebore



#19 John24

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 04:48 PM

MILLANDSON said:

 

 

You don't get "invited" to join the Grey Knights, they are an entire chapter in their own right with their own geneseed and the like.

 

Ahh, thanks I had forgotten that, it's been awhile since I'd read the books.  Next time I'll be sure to do some more research before I post.



#20 Kanluwen

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Posted 28 February 2010 - 05:05 PM

Hellebore said:

Before the indication that the grey knight geneseed was a product of traitor geneseed from those that remained loyal, my pet theory was that they were in fact a successor chapter to the Custodes. The Custodes couldn't relinquish their role as guardians of the Emperor, but they still wished to fight to protect His domains. They created the grey knights for this purpose.

I also like to think that the Custodes send their recruits on decades long crusades to weed out the weakest until only the strongest, battle hardened individuals remain. Thus you don't get the impression that the Custodes haven't actually fought anything for the last 10,000 years.

 

Anyway, that's OTT.

In the original background a space marine was a psychologically brain washed criminal (hence why the Terran Marines are like that).

 

They can be roleplayed but the areas they will actually be required to do that are going to be very specific.

 

Hellebore

Honestly, that new development with Garro and the Half-Heard is why "Flight of the Eisenstein" is one of my favorite Horus Heresy books to date. It's right up there with "Legion" and "Descent of Angels".

The original background for Space Marines, if you'll recall, was a ripoff of the Sardukar from Frank Herbert's "Dune" novels. Heck, I think they mentioned that Arrakeen Prime was one of the "primary training worlds of the Imperial Space Marines" at some point in a White Dwarf back in the day.






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