Jump to content



Photo

One complaint with Android


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 JackalopeJay

JackalopeJay

    Member

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 13 December 2008 - 05:37 PM

Disclaimer:  As a whole, I love this game and have had a great time playing it.

There is just one issue I have with the game.

This game is all about Theme and Storytelling and that is a great thing, but for some reason with the conspiracy puzzle, you get +4 victory points for completing a row, column, or diagonal.  These pieces can (and usually do) have nothing to do with each other except for adjacency.

This makes no sense in Theme or Storytelling.  It just seems tacked on for the Euro Game Crowd.  It would make much more sense if you got +4 victory points for making the connection between a faction and the conspiracy.  It also makes for an interesting strategy decision.  Do I make the connection to Mayor Wells and score +4 Victory points when my opponent has 7 Political favors stored up, or do I block the connection, not get the VP to make sure my opponent doesn't make the connection.

Just my 2 cents.  Its a small gripe in an otherwise great game.

JackalopeJay



#2 Dr Terror

Dr Terror

    Member

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 13 December 2008 - 08:54 PM

Just throwing my bit in - Played with my gf + friends today, she was a little behind in absorbing the rules, but she understood the "bingo" aspect of conspiracy tiles completely - allowing her to compete where the others were hording favors/baggage looking at the "bigger picture". This was great for that reason - ordinarily the "noob" in these kind of games fall way behind in VP's.

As for theme, not sure - maybe your character is "starting to make sense" of the conspiracy. How can your character know about the puzzle pieces that others have placed? For me its gossip & here-say, news media etc. Might be silly/non-canon but I like the way you can fill the gaps with your imagination. This game is like a good book for me, not everything has to be how & why - especially with a game so rich in theme as Android.

But, c'mon, Flying cars? :P:P:P



#3 Mike

Mike

    Member

  • Members
  • 378 posts

Posted 13 December 2008 - 09:24 PM

Dr Terror said:

But, c'mon, Flying cars? :P:P:P

Dude! It's 2000! :P



#4 futurescaper

futurescaper

    Member

  • Members
  • 12 posts

Posted 14 December 2008 - 04:03 AM

About flying cars:

DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency) has recently started a Personal Air Vehicle Technology research project.

Also, there were flying cars (Spinners) in Blade Runner. So there. :)



#5 Shuriken36

Shuriken36

    Member

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 16 December 2008 - 11:29 AM

Flavor wise, Kevin Wilson did an amazing job. It has a setting, story, characters, and mechanics that basically all make sense with each other. As for the conspiracy issue, It seems like you'd be getting points for seeing that everything is connected, which you'd do by obtaining bingo status.

 

Oh, as for flying cars, there have been prototypes already made. We'll undoubtedly get them before we get an elevator to the moon.



#6 Mike

Mike

    Member

  • Members
  • 378 posts

Posted 16 December 2008 - 07:20 PM

I wouldn't be so sure. The space elevator is fuelled by Nasa's Elevator:2010 project. There have been more advancements made than with flying cars.



#7 zwobot

zwobot

    Member

  • Members
  • 130 posts

Posted 17 December 2008 - 06:15 AM

In the books of  Arthur C. Clarke are space elevators a normal thing. I think i read it in the second book of the space odyssey circle. So those ideas are all taken from old scifi themes like blade runner etc.



#8 Eldil

Eldil

    Member

  • Members
  • 174 posts

Posted 17 December 2008 - 06:40 AM

Shuriken36 said:

Oh, as for flying cars, there have been prototypes already made. We'll undoubtedly get them before we get an elevator to the moon.

Flying cars are one of those things we probably could do, but probably shouldn't do.

Have you ever been sitting at an intersection, and the light goes green so you push on the gas, and the car stalls?

Now imagine that, only you're eight thousand feet in the air above a densely populated urban center, and your car is full of rocket fuel.

Congratulations. You're Slim Pickens.



#9 Joram

Joram

    Member

  • Members
  • 289 posts

Posted 17 December 2008 - 07:15 AM

Eldil said:

Shuriken36 said:

Oh, as for flying cars, there have been prototypes already made. We'll undoubtedly get them before we get an elevator to the moon.

 

Flying cars are one of those things we probably could do, but probably shouldn't do.

Have you ever been sitting at an intersection, and the light goes green so you push on the gas, and the car stalls?

Now imagine that, only you're eight thousand feet in the air above a densely populated urban center, and your car is full of rocket fuel.

Congratulations. You're Slim Pickens.

But if we had flying cars, then all of the trafiic rules would be different. You likely wouldn't even have intersections.

Probably you would just slide onto an "offramp" that would curve around and up (or down) allowing you to merge with a stream of traffic going in another direction. You would probably have periodic "offramps" that would go down to ground level, or close to it, which you would use when you were getting near to your destination.

About the real topic, I haven't played the game yet, but it does seem to me that the OP has a good point. I'd rather have bonus points for linking people to the conspiracy, rather than just making a row of tiles that might not connect anyone.



#10 alterego2012

alterego2012

    Member

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 21 December 2008 - 05:23 PM

I would agree that it doesn't make much "Thematic" sense, but I think that it makes sense from a "Gameplay" standpoint - it keeps the Conspiracy relevant to the game.  If you draw a bad piece, that piece isn't instantly a waste - it could be used to complete a CRD (column, row, diagonal).  If the person/group that you want linked in the Conspiracy has been blocked, then you could focus on the CRDs.  If your character isn't as good at the puzzle, it still gives you a chance to jump in and get 4 points from it.  It also forces the players contributing to the Conspiracy to make a similar choice JJ outlined in the OP - do I make this connection and give someone else a shot at completing a CRD, do I complete a CRD myself and risk having my connection blocked, etc?

JJ, I actually think that your VP idea sounds pretty cool, and I'm agreeing with you that it doesn't make much thematic sense, but I do think that it can contribute positively to the gameplay.  Perhaps you could try your variation a couple of times and let us know what kind of a difference it makes on the game?  Perhaps one of the FFG Team could shed some light on why CRDs are in and other ideas (like JJ's) are out?  Perhaps I should go to bed, because I've gotten less than 4 hours of sleep a night for the past 5 nights?  How do I know that I'm not asleep right now and this is all just a dream?

Yep, definitely tired.

alterego2012



#11 Quill

Quill

    Member

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 22 December 2008 - 04:20 AM

While we have only played one game, the row/column/diagonal was the MAJOR component in one players overwhelming victory.  I agree that it does not make thematic sense (other than the investigator becoming obsessed with uncovering the conspiracy).  In the end, I believe it was poor play choices of the rest of us (allowing the player to be in a constant position to complete the rows (along with a bit of luck.)

It was just annoying to see this element be such a dominant factor in the victory of the game (completing a link "feels" better.



#12 Allen Doum

Allen Doum

    Member

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 22 December 2008 - 10:42 AM

It seems to me that the 4 point tiles provide an incentive to complete the conspiracy instead of dead-ending all of the paths. If the conspiracy is completed, then there will also be more victory points scored by all players, which compensates for one player getting the 4 tiles.



#13 Bleached Lizard

Bleached Lizard

    Member

  • Members
  • 774 posts

Posted 22 December 2008 - 01:19 PM

Allen Doum said:

 

It seems to me that the 4 point tiles provide an incentive to complete the conspiracy instead of dead-ending all of the paths. If the conspiracy is completed, then there will also be more victory points scored by all players, which compensates for one player getting the 4 tiles.

 

 

Surely that would actually be *more* the case if the 4VP chips were awarded for completing paths between the conspiracy and orgs rather than just getting 5-in-a-row?



#14 ColtsFan76

ColtsFan76

    Rules Guru

  • Members
  • 1,040 posts

Posted 23 December 2008 - 12:36 AM

Bleached Lizard said:

Allen Doum said:

 

It seems to me that the 4 point tiles provide an incentive to complete the conspiracy instead of dead-ending all of the paths. If the conspiracy is completed, then there will also be more victory points scored by all players, which compensates for one player getting the 4 tiles.

 

 

Surely that would actually be *more* the case if the 4VP chips were awarded for completing paths between the conspiracy and orgs rather than just getting 5-in-a-row?

The point is if you connect a Conspiracy path, you are probably already getting additional VP for that connection (otherwise, why complete that particular path).  You don't need motivation to extend paths.  But if you have no motivation to extend the path, you can get extra points by completeing "tic-tac-toe" which might give other players points since the Cnospiracy ling was established, or won't give them points because you screwed them.



#15 Kalidor

Kalidor

    Member

  • Validating
  • 105 posts

Posted 26 March 2009 - 09:36 AM

How about the above (or in another thread?) suggestion stating that only 1 of the +4 VP tile can be earned on any given turn?

That seems a fair comprimise...no?



#16 Paul Grogan

Paul Grogan

    Member

  • Members
  • 451 posts

Posted 26 March 2009 - 08:56 PM

As people may have seen from my other posts, I also do not like the simple +4VP for finishing a row of 5.  It is easy points, granted for doing nothing special.  This is out of balance with the other points.  There are a few suggestions:

1. Only 1 conspiracy token is awarded per turn if any row of 5 is completed.  This fixes the situation with a player easily being able to get 8 or 12VP for doing very little.

2. Make the conspiracy tokens worth less.  I'm now ruling that they are only worth 3, but may even drop this down to 2, since there are plenty of other good things and ways of getting VP from the conspiracy itself.  The free favour / baggage on the back of the puzzle pieces, plus the bonus on the front of the puzzle piece is far superior to placing a random piece of evidence on a suspect that might do absolutely nothing for you

3. Only give conspiracy tokens away to someone who completes a row of 5 as long as they are actually linking up two sides.  I'm not really sure what I mean here, so I'll shut up now.



#17 Rasiel

Rasiel

    Member

  • Members
  • 142 posts

Posted 13 April 2009 - 01:10 AM

This rule is like it is because not all detectives can get favors so easily, so there is usually no point for you to make a connection to earn 4 extra points if this usually give other players a lot more VP

But even if your character isnt very good at conspiracy or gaining favors, you can give some piece to it to cut off a link and/or earn points... if it was only for complete connection, it just give some detectives easy VP, because they needs to connect that anyway... I remember when i played louis, most of points was from favors i had, but i also make that favors be connected to earn VP... with 4 VP per connection, it could be so much easier to win ...

Of course, you can make conspiracy VP tokens reward for "not making a connection", for those who doesnt want to make it.... but it wouldnt be so easy ...

Anyway this is a bad rule, it looks good for thema, but not for its game purpose.... Now it is usually not cumulative, you have to choose if you make a connection, or if you complete a row/col/diagonal instead ...



#18 angus of one

angus of one

    Member

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 06 October 2009 - 08:58 AM

Sorry for bringing up a REALLY old post.

Last weekend was the first time I played the game. For the most part, I was given the basic understanding of the rules, however I just kind of played along not expecting to win, but to take in the game so I could play better next time.

Out of all the complaints I have (most are nitpicking complaints), this is the biggest one. Thematically, it doesn't make sense that a conspiracy is completed halfway through a story, and that's what happened during our game. The 4 VP for a row or column basically encourages everyone to get those puzzle pieces on the board ASAP. Additionally, during this game, a lucky player was able to start their turn with 3 open spots that would complete a row/column. Just for being next in line, he got 12 VP for doing absolutely nothing (didn't connect anything). Thematically, you could write this off as the character screwing the rest and being part of the conspiracy and covering up any loose ends, but 12 VP for being the lucky person to go next just doesn't make sense to me.

I like the idea of limiting the scoring this way to once per turn. For example, once you finish a row or column, you get your one +4 VP chip. You may place more puzzle pieces on your turn, but you cannot receive any more VPs from completing rows/columns. Additionally, if maybe you are lucky enough to place one piece to finish both a row and a column, you can get two +4 VP chips (I can live with that).



#19 Bleached Lizard

Bleached Lizard

    Member

  • Members
  • 774 posts

Posted 06 October 2009 - 12:43 PM

angus of one said:

Sorry for bringing up a REALLY old post.

Last weekend was the first time I played the game. For the most part, I was given the basic understanding of the rules, however I just kind of played along not expecting to win, but to take in the game so I could play better next time.

Out of all the complaints I have (most are nitpicking complaints), this is the biggest one. Thematically, it doesn't make sense that a conspiracy is completed halfway through a story, and that's what happened during our game. The 4 VP for a row or column basically encourages everyone to get those puzzle pieces on the board ASAP. Additionally, during this game, a lucky player was able to start their turn with 3 open spots that would complete a row/column. Just for being next in line, he got 12 VP for doing absolutely nothing (didn't connect anything). Thematically, you could write this off as the character screwing the rest and being part of the conspiracy and covering up any loose ends, but 12 VP for being the lucky person to go next just doesn't make sense to me.

I like the idea of limiting the scoring this way to once per turn. For example, once you finish a row or column, you get your one +4 VP chip. You may place more puzzle pieces on your turn, but you cannot receive any more VPs from completing rows/columns. Additionally, if maybe you are lucky enough to place one piece to finish both a row and a column, you can get two +4 VP chips (I can live with that).

What if a player places a corner piece that creates three 5-in-a-rows?  Should they get 12VPs?

Check out the link in my sig for a variant that tempers the conspiracy puzzle a whole lot, and is a hell of a lot more thematic.



#20 Tsugo

Tsugo

    Member

  • Members
  • 286 posts

Posted 07 October 2009 - 04:22 AM

Bleached Lizard said:

What if a player places a corner piece that creates three 5-in-a-rows?  Should they get 12VPs?

According to the rules they would.  And that's exactly what can happen if you don't control the conspiracy or consider where you are going to place leads.

I don't disagree that the conspiracy puzzle provides many benefits and can seem overpowering.  For us, the puzzle is typically completed after about 2/3 into the game.  But not everyone goes after puzzle pieces all the time.  Depending on which investigator I'm playing, I will wait until there are several pieces laid out.  I am also guilty of taking advantage of a nearly complete row, column, or diagonal for the extra VP.  It's just another strategy.  






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS