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#1 David Spangler

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 02:23 AM

I have to admit I've never been as attracted to Napoleonic warfare and battles as I have to those of the American Civil War. My favorite scale for Napoleon has been strategic (I keep trying to conquer Russia!). However, this looks like an interesting series--and it is a series according to the rule book.  It appears that each game in the series will be devoted to the battles between Nappy and a particular nationality, with this first one being Napoleon vs the British with later games covering French vs Italians, French vs Russians, etc.  I'm really not as familiar with this era or warfare--as I said, I'm more an ACW fan myself if we're looking at 19th century warfare--so I'm wondering how much difference there is or was between the way the different nationalities fought.  How different will each game of the series be from the others?



#2 Nematode

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Posted 24 February 2010 - 09:23 PM

I have to agree with you on this one.  American Civil War has a lot more interest to me too.  About the same period/tactics though.  Could very well be that this game could be used very effectively to model at least some Civil War battles.  Hope there's a good community for mods on this one.  Could be interresting.



#3 pomakli

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Posted 27 February 2010 - 04:21 AM

Nematode said:

American Civil War has a lot more interest to me too.  About the same period/tactics though.  Could very well be that this game could be used very effectively to model at least some Civil War battles.  Hope there's a good community for mods on this one.  Could be interresting.

Wait a little bit!

I think if this game sells well; there could be a civil war variant in 2011!

BR



#4 Lord Mykal

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 05:43 AM

having always been a Napoleonic fan I can assure all those ACW fans that the Napoleonic period was and still is the period that gave birth to modern war. Most ACW commanders cut their teeth on Napoleon's stratagies if not his later tactics! If you like the ACW battles then step up and realy show your ability to Comd and Control truley combined tactics. This series looks at tactical battlefield action only where as Napoleon really mastered the Strategic and Grand Tactical aspects of total war. So this may be a great intro to the period.

Bon chance!



#5 El Mikel

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:38 AM

From the ACW reading that I have done, one of the problems was that many of the commanders had been schooled in Napoleonic strategy and tactics and were slow to adapt to the changes in firearms.  So you should all be right at home at Waterloo, just think of it as Gettsyburg, but without so many hills and woods     

The lack of adaption, I find interesting, 'cos almost the same lack of thought can be applied to the WW1 trenches, because the Europeans failed to learn from the later trench warfare of ACW  

For some interesting comparisons on the combat differences, I can highly recommend checking out the Design Diary entries at SimmonsGames.com

e.g. http://www.simmonsga...anuary2009.html

Also the uniforms were much sooooo much more colourful, so you'll need more than blue and butternut when you paint your minis. Oh and a good magnifying glass!

 

 



#6 Bazookajoe

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:13 AM

The major differences between the periods were at the operational and strategic level. Railroads and telegraph allowed rapid mobilization and redeployment within and between theaters while coordinating the movement of army groups with greater strategic impact by the command authority. This was a RMA but not completely capitalized on by either side until Lincoln appointed Grant CiC. Battlefield tactics remained similar to the Napoleonic period with a reduced battlefield utility of cavalry as a melee weapon. Cavalry acted as recon and dragoons (dismounted infantry). Cavalry became more directly effective later in the war with the introduction of the repeater rifles. The technological advancement of weapons had a battlefield impact in higher casualties but not a strategic or operational impact since both sides fielded similar weapon systems. 

The main impact on later wars was demonstrated by the Prussians against France in 1870 (rapid mobilization and superior doctrine overcame superior weapons). WWI was a throwback to the ACW in that both sides learned the lesson of 1870 while having similar weapon systems and industrial capacity of relative parity (unlike the ACW). The result again...high casualty rates but for little strategic impact.

Interestingly, whereas ACW commanders studied Napoleonic battles, they studied Jomini for their "art of war". The later Prussians, of course, developed along Clauswitzian principles.

I often used the AH game Battle Cry to simulate Napoleonic battles using 10mm or 25mm figures. With tailoring and tweaking for national troop differences and commander capabilities, the historical battles often finished along historical lines. More recently, I've been using TOI boards and terrain with 10mm troops to wonderful effect combined with a simplified version of the old GDW "System 7" rules plus Battle Cry cards. This new game looks very similar to that hodge-podge.

I look forward to future reviews of this new game.

 

 



#7 kaufschtick

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 04:00 AM

El Mikel said:

The lack of adaption, I find interesting, 'cos almost the same lack of thought can be applied to the WW1 trenches, because the Europeans failed to learn from the later trench warfare of ACW  

 

 

I think that the Napoleanic era may have had some impact on the earlier stages of the ACW, but as far as I'm concerned, the end of the ACW was the time period that I would call the first modern war.

You had your first breach loaded carbines in the ACW, the introduction of the gattling gun & trench warfare, along with aerial observation by way of balloons.

I could see this series of games jumping into the ACW at some point as an expansion though. The two time periods are so similar, it just makes the most perfect sense.



#8 Lord Mykal

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 07:55 PM

Bazookajoe  - "I often used the AH game Battle Cry to simulate Napoleonic battles using 10mm or 25mm figures. With tailoring and tweaking for national troop differences and commander capabilities, the historical battles often finished along historical lines. More recently, I've been using TOI boards and terrain with 10mm troops to wonderful effect combined with a simplified version of the old GDW "System 7" rules plus Battle Cry cards. This new game looks very similar to that hodge-podge."

Thats really interesting you've adapted Battle Cry to Napoleonics as when I bought BC I thought wow thios has Napoleonic potential! However never got around to doing it with minis and I thinkthats a great idea. I think Battle Cry was great! They left it hanging I thought. Expansions with bigger boards and nore troops and then include a campagn system would have been great.

Hope they look at those options with Napoleon's Battles! 



#9 Bazookajoe

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Posted 26 April 2010 - 08:44 AM

I also liked BC. By blending board game play with miniatures, in some ways, it was as groundbreaking as AH's "We the People". Being a long time Napoleonics freak, I couldn't resist playing around with the system. As the ultimate CW campaign game-meld, we used Eagles games "The American Civil War" for the strategic/operational level and BC for the tactical fights (battles).

I'm sure BoN can be adapted to CW play quite easily. However, as the tactics were so similar, I doubt I would spend the money for a CW series game. I would however, be very interested in a Franco-Prussian War version! The FP War has fascinating subject matter for exploration via wargaming,  including RMA via weapon systems and doctrines, plus the final clash between Clausewitz and Jomini.  I personally feel it has been unjustly ignored by wargamers (more due to the lack of a decent game) though is the subject of much study at war colleges.  






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