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The Rainiest Place in the Empire >> More Details on Stromdorf & Its Environs


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#1 ynnen

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 01:57 AM

The Gathering Storm is officially “on the boat” and headed our way from the printers. With the campaign adventure set close at hand, I wanted to share a bit more information about Stromdorf, which is situated in arguably the rainiest place in the Empire. In an earlier diary, I shared some details about what goes in within Stromdorf’s walls. In this diary, we’ll take a closer look at the region around Stromdorf.



#2 schoon

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 05:12 AM

Very nice diary. I'm liking the "atmospherics" for Stromdorf, and it looks like it's been well thought out from the initial snippets we've seen.



#3 Gallows

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 07:49 AM

I look forward to this campaign pack and see what direction FFG is going with the campaigns. Hopefully you have a sequel in the works as well



#4 orangefruitbat

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 04:04 PM

Nice and evocative, but...

As a map-fanatic, I'm distressed to say that the maps (both on the web previews and in the core rulebook) have some interesting discrepencies from the map of the Reikland in "Death on the Reik" (DOTR). However, many of these changes could be rationally explained by a creative GM as more than simple inaccuracies of cartography.

1) Auerswald has migrated from the east side of the River Teufel to the west side.

1a) Maybe the original town sunk into the swamp, or was abandonned due to an infestation of plague rats...

2) Stromdorf apppears where the town of Steche used to be. (Stromdorf is admittedly a better name).

2a) The von Jungfreuds hated the old name and legally changed it a decade ago, causing confusion to travellers to this day.

3) A road has been added between Ubersreik and Auerswald not present in DOTR.

3a) The road has always been there, but was in such poor shape that earlier map-makers didn't realize that a road was present along the riverbank.

4) The eastern road to Nuln travelled from Ubersreik to Stimmigen, Dunkelberg and finally to Nuln. It was well south of the Great Forest (now subsumed into the Reikwald), in the relatively open land between the woods and the Grey mountains. The new text suggests that the road goes through Stromdorf and then skirts along the Reikwald, eventually making its way to Nuln.

4a) The area used to be farmland but had been depopulated by goblin raids from the Grey Mountains. It is reverting to back to forestlands.

 

Anybody else have map observations or suggestions?

 



#5 Lexicanum

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Posted 18 February 2010 - 06:21 PM

 For most intents and purposes, 1st edition material is similar to an alternate dimension, a parallel universe of WFRP.

There are signifcant differences in the history, setting and events between the three editions, such that maintaining a strict geographical adherence seems a bit excessive. It is nice that overall the maps stay similar, but one should realize that comparing those two maps is in effect similar to comparing maps from parallel universes.



#6 orangefruitbat

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 12:26 AM

I understand all the changes to the setting and history, and the havoc that can play on older material (see e.g., Sylvannia, Bretonnia). However, I cannot think of any changes to the setting that would necessitate a change in physical geography of the Old World.

None of the changes I've noticed are show-stoppers, but they are irrating to a GM like myself who wants to combine material from DOTR with the Gathering Storm box. For example, the detailed hex map in DOTR, which may be the finest and most useful map of the Reikland ever produced (the GS looks to have far more attractive maps). As such, I find it helpful to identifical all the discrepencies, and see how I can reconcile the the two.

Consider a party that is in Auerswald who needs to head to Ubersreik, but lacks a river boat. If they are relying on the map from the GS, then they figure they can take the road. The GM (who is relying on the hex map in DOTR) observes that no such road exists! I could simply say that the road doesn't exist - find a boat. However, if I have taken a moment to think about this issue, I can provide a more compelling answer - the road used to exist, but washed out in the storms of '13, or that the forest grew unusually fast and simply covered over the track, etc., which can lead to a better story.

 



#7 GravitysAngel

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 05:32 AM

 Even in the "real world", Medieval maps were often not in agreement on many things, especially details.  It's very believable for one person to have a map that shows a town on one side of a river, and another person to have a map that shows the same town on the other side of the river, or a third person that shows the town but doesn't even show the river, or a fourth person with a map that shows the river but not the town!



#8 ffgfan

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Posted 19 February 2010 - 09:35 PM

This news and the earlier one about Stromdorf were really good. I'm really exaited about this campani and it looks like march and april will be my WFRP months. First the Gathering Storm is comming with all does maps and other stuff. And the GM Toolkit - my personal must have becouse i love too make sessions for my friends. Yes the world can be soo beautifull.



#9 Mikael Hasselstein

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 02:23 PM


 

Why is it that the "The Rainiest Place" in the Empire is on the lee-side of a mountain range. I'm no meteorologist, but wouldn't the rainiest place be further north near the sea - Nordland or someplace?



#10 GravitysAngel

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 04:37 AM

Mikael Hasselstein said:


 

Why is it that the "The Rainiest Place" in the Empire is on the lee-side of a mountain range. I'm no meteorologist, but wouldn't the rainiest place be further north near the sea - Nordland or someplace?

 

Definitely a good point.  The Empire is one giant basin, so it's possible that the prevailing winds swirl a bit, causing incoming clouds to pass from the Marienburg area, circle around, and dump their rain near Stromdorf as they come up against the higher ground and mountains.

 

I live in Portland, Oregon, which gets a lot of rain, even more than Seattle per year.  We're in a valley.  Clouds come via the Jet Stream from the ocean, with enough energy to make it over the Coast Range, but then they come upon colder air from the Columbia Gorge or the higher plateau at the foot of the Cascade Range, and they dump all their precipitation.  So perhaps Stromdorf is in a river valley.

 



#11 Mikael Hasselstein

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 05:18 AM

GravitysAngel said:

Definitely a good point.  The Empire is one giant basin, so it's possible that the prevailing winds swirl a bit, causing incoming clouds to pass from the Marienburg area, circle around, and dump their rain near Stromdorf as they come up against the higher ground and mountains. 

I live in Portland, Oregon, which gets a lot of rain, even more than Seattle per year.  We're in a valley.  Clouds come via the Jet Stream from the ocean, with enough energy to make it over the Coast Range, but then they come upon colder air from the Columbia Gorge or the higher plateau at the foot of the Cascade Range, and they dump all their precipitation.  So perhaps Stromdorf is in a river valley. 

 

Yes, but the coast range "...is thirty to sixty miles (50–100 km) wide and averages around 1,500 feet (460 m) in elevation above sea level" (thank you Wikipedia). So, rather than provide a rain shadow, I imagine that the coast range gives the clouds just enough lift in order to cause them to dump down on you - just like you say. Personally, I presume that the Grey Mountains are a little bit bigger than that, and that they cast a very significant rain shadow.  Now, I'lll grant you that it is along a river, but it is south of the Hagercrybs - so, if the Hagercrybs have any meteorological significance, they would also provide a rain shadow for anything coming from the north.

 

To also offer personal anecdotal evidence, I live in Colorado Springs - on the lee-side of the Rocky Mountains. The Rocky Mountains, in turn, are east of a large swath of territory - not unlike Bretonnia, though, granted the American west is quite a bit more arid than Bretonnia is.

 

 

But still, there seems to me no reason why Stromdorf would have more rainfall than, say Middenheim, which is not in the rain shadow of the Grey Mountains, but on the windward side of the Middle Mountains.



#12 Armoks

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 05:55 AM

 "Stromdorf lies near the confluence of three rivers, the wide Teufel, the angry Ober, and the lazy Tranig." That's why, IMO.



#13 Gallows

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 05:58 AM

Hmm just a question not completely related to this campaign... what year is it officially in 3rd edition?



#14 Mikael Hasselstein

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 06:23 AM

Armoks said:

 "Stromdorf lies near the confluence of three rivers, the wide Teufel, the angry Ober, and the lazy Tranig." That's why, IMO.

 

You believe that the rain comes from the rivers? If that's so, why would Nuln and Altdorf, which lie at the confluence of much larger rivers, not have greater rainfall?



#15 Armoks

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 06:36 AM

 It seems to be 2521: Rulebook p.94 "The political borders of the Empire, Circa 2521 I.C."



#16 Armoks

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 06:41 AM

Mikael Hasselstein said:

You believe that the rain comes from the rivers? If that's so, why would Nuln and Altdorf, which lie at the confluence of much larger rivers, not have greater rainfall?

Not really, but it's one of the explanations that I can accept becouse it is the fantasy world. 

Or maybe the rain is magical? 



#17 Mikael Hasselstein

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 07:27 AM

Armoks said:

Mikael Hasselstein said:

 

You believe that the rain comes from the rivers? If that's so, why would Nuln and Altdorf, which lie at the confluence of much larger rivers, not have greater rainfall?

 

 

Not really, but it's one of the explanations that I can accept becouse it is the fantasy world. 

Or maybe the rain is magical? 

I have an out-of-character explanation for this that isn't as generous to the game designers. So, sure, magic explains it.

 


#18 Mikael Hasselstein

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 08:09 AM

 

It has come to my attention, through mysterious ways (magic?), that I have been talking out of my rectum. Please disregard the above.



#19 Emirikol

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Posted 21 February 2010 - 12:21 PM

orangefruitbat said:

As a map-fanatic, I'm distressed to say that the maps (both on the web previews and in the core rulebook) have some interesting discrepencies from the map of the Reikland in "Death on the Reik" (DOTR).

 

 

Just pray that future materials get maybe better research  :)  We all appreciate the amount of work that goes into creating stuff..but wouldn't a little extra time spent looking at official wfrp material _already_ done would have saved a lot of work and also given better background material to embellish and expand upon?  

There is an INDEX to all that info afterall.  :)     

www.goblin-online.net/wfrpidx/index.html

 

As for rain, I live in Colorado.  It's dry here..but places like Aspen and Maroon Bells get tons of rain..otherwise eastern slope tends to be dry.  NBD that the game writers aren't meteorologists, but in reality, we don't know what the jet stream of the old world looks like so I can give them a break ;)  My guess is the jet stream looks like this:  @   

 

;)

 

jh



#20 mac40k

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 03:57 AM

Armoks said:

 It seems to be 2521: Rulebook p.94 "The political borders of the Empire, Circa 2521 I.C."

It's actually later than that, but the exact date or year of the setting is not specified. However, there is a bit of fluff in ToB that talks about a Chaos Cult based in Nuln that met for the last time on Hexentaag, 2522. So with that event being portrayed as having occured in the "past" of whatever the "present" is in the setting, it is at the very least late 2522. Many automatically assume that it is set earlier due to the fact that it does not take place in the same post-Storm of Chaos setting that 2nd ed did. I contend however, that rather than being placed in between the 1e and 2e timelines, that the Storm of Chaos has simply been retconned out of the setting.






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