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The intricacies of spawning.


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#1 EpicSausage

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 03:07 AM

As it suggests in the Scenario Book, as a marine player opens any door I pause the game and lay out the newly-discovered area, placing all monsters / items etc etc for that area.

Now let me throw a scenario at you to help better understand my situation:

Our lone Marine is standing in a T-junction, with his back to the (closed) door he just came through. The Invading player plays a spawn card, however is unable to place the creatures anywhere along the T corridor as there are no "blind spots".. so places them behind the door, in the room the Marine was previously in as they are not in line of sight (due to the closed door).

Which option would you favour:

1) I state I'm playing a spawn card, and grab the miniatures from the box. Place them on the board for the player to see, behind the door.

2) I state I'm playing the spawn card... and don't put anything on the board as technically the Marine can't see the figures.

 

Now, we're trudging I think between "board game" and "realism". With option 2) the player knows there are more invaders around.. but no idea where. Spooky huh? However with option 1) it can lead to a "obviously we won't backtrack that way" or "look, the invaders are taking the another way around".

How do "you" deal with this situation? :)

-Ben



#2 shnar

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 04:44 AM

The game is hard enough on the marines, I would just play them visible, especially since you're probably just going to open the door and pounce on the stupid marine who closed the door in the first place.

The other reason is to keep bookkeeping down. If you have an "invisible" unit on the board, you have to add all sorts of tracking to make sure you moved it appropriately, etc. Just putting the figure on the board is a much simpler way to play.

-shnar



#3 Steve-O

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 06:40 AM

Per the rules as written you are required to place the figures on the map.  So #1 is the official answer.  If you want to use #2 you can, but I agree with Shnar that the game is hard enough for the marines to win without unseen units moving around god-knows where on the map.  Also, bookkeeping and the potential for cheating would make this kind of rule a nightmare.  Hopefully cheating isn't an issue with your friends, but bookkeeping is still a problem.



#4 shnar

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 08:34 AM

If you want to add a little mystery, you could borrow a page from Space Hulk and use "blips", an unknown marker that the marines know something is there, lurking around the corner, but just not sure exactly what it is until they see it.

Without giving it a whole lot of thought, here's how I would play it:

 - The Invader puts the spawn card face down and puts a blip marker on it (something marked #1)
 - The Invader puts a sister blip marker (i.e. marked number #1) on the board out of LOS
 - Blips get 3MPs, that's it.
 - Once a blip is in LOS of a marine (by any means), it's revealed for what it is (i.e. flip the spawn card and put the correct figure on the board).

I'm not sure if I'd do 3 different blip marker sizes (i.e. 1x1, 1x2, 2x2) or just a 1x1 blip and when it's revealed it surprises the marines with what it is (then you have to get into placement rules if it's revealed in an area it does "fit" in).

-shnar



#5 FragMaster

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 08:21 PM

Wargames have tried to make "hidden units" rules work for 2 decades and it didn't work that well without using an umpire/judge who actually knows the units' locations. It simply doesn't work good. I don't think you are going to have any fun if you actually play with hidden units.

If you want a more "realistic" explanation I have two words for you: Motion Scanners.

The marines know where are the Invaders because they have motion scanners. "Realism" problem solved.

Also, DOOM is so hard that any home rule that you add that helps the Invader is overkill.



#6 Steve-O

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Posted 11 February 2010 - 01:14 AM

shnar said:

I'm not sure if I'd do 3 different blip marker sizes (i.e. 1x1, 1x2, 2x2) or just a 1x1 blip and when it's revealed it surprises the marines with what it is (then you have to get into placement rules if it's revealed in an area it does "fit" in).

I'd say if a blip token is revealed in a positon where the figure cannot fit, it is removed from play.  That way the Invader is encouraged not to move blips where the corresponding figure can't fit.  This looks like a pretty simple house rule for those who are interested in hiding invaders, the only problem I foresee is that most of the spawn cards have two "spawn choices" on them (and some of those choices involve more than one fig.)  Does the Invader make this choice when he plays the card, as normal, or when it is flipped?  And if we go by normal rules, how do we prevent him from "changing his mind"?






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