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Linear d6 System


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#1 vgunn

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 08:21 AM

 I'd love to see how this system compares to some others out there. It seems very light and this is a concern for me--I don't want it too abstract.

As far as crunchiness how does it match up with Cinematic Unisystem (Buffy and Angel) for example? Or True 20? How is combat in the game?

Please give me some more details on the system. 



#2 pumpkin

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 08:25 AM

 

I'm not familiar with the systems you mention but i can tell you the linear D6 system is pretty abstract. Its very elegant IMO but certainly abstract and limited in crunchiness; it suits the flavour of the game very well though.



#3 vgunn

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 08:49 AM

 Can you tell me how combat works?



#4 pumpkin

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 09:20 AM

 

There are no grids, ranges basically boil down to rather neatly called things such as a cricket's hop, a stone's throw (effectively equating to close, medium etc) and various weapons can simply reach to a certain range.

There are then a few traits used, scrap (fighting) scamper (dodging) throw etc depending on what you want to do.

Because there is very little variance in a specific roll that someone makes (basically each trait has a grade or level and "most" rolls you will succeed at your grade, rarely you will succeed at a higher grade level, and rarely you will succeed at a lower grade level by dice roll alone). Size is also a factor both in your ability to withstand damage (the bigger you are the more damage you take but also dish out) but also in how easy you are to hit.

So to fight, both combatants would make a scrap test for instance, and whoever gets the higher scrap grade wins. which will normally be the one  with the higher scrap trait to begin with....which will normally be the evil adult!

the system values then basically make it so that the kids are worse at scrap than most of the baddies, but better at scampering and throwing, so kids find it naturally hard to hit an "adult" and do any damage because the adult is big and strong whereas the adult find its hard to land a blow on the kids because they are small and pesky! Kids find it easier to hit adults with missile because both their throwing is superior but the size of the target is also "big".

because of the small variance in the roll itself, the system is designed for the PCS to get grade increases by other means, kids can assist each other, which means a grade increase, so team work is vital if a group of kids wants to take down an adult, like wise finding a big stick or a sword will increase the kids scrap trait making them more likely to hit and wound an adult etc etc

the whole system really promotes teamwork within the players and thinking to try and find real advantages in combat rather than just going toe to toe, but it is pretty abstract with its movement and ranges and weapon/ armour statistics etc is pretty thin on the ground (but ample enough for the games concept.)

hope that helps (a bit!)

 



#5 vgunn

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:05 PM

 I am much more interested in the system than the setting. Looking to port it over to a fantasy game, I think the grade levels actually work in favor of it. For example, Hobbits as a low grade level vs Elves at a much higher one. My biggest concern is a lack of randomness (from what I've heard from others. I love the team work aspect and believe it would work very well.

What are your biggest issues with Linear d6? Are there any changes to the system you recommend?

Thanks again for your responses!



#6 pumpkin

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 11:20 PM

 

I don't have any major issues with the system, but that's because it fits the game concept very well. Individual characters (kids) are pretty weak compared to the NPC baddies (adults) at least physically, so the team work and other ways of finding advantages to help with grade increases works really well.

I do think the lack of randomness could cause issues if you try to apply it to a different type of adventure medium, but for the setting in Grimm and the kind of stories they game tries to portray, it's perfect.

I'm not saying it can't work in a standard fantasy concept (certainly the abstract combat stuff has been ported to WFRP V3 with relative ease), but in a standard fantasy setting the PCs aren't normally going to be individually much weaker than the NPCs, so the team work aspect and need to find external advantages rather than relying on raw stats becomes less vital, and that really is what is at the heart of the grimm rule set.

 



#7 vgunn

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 04:13 AM

Well, one of the things I have been struggling with is the ability for a Hobbit to be a contributing member of an adventuring group that has very powerful Elves and Men. Making the design of the game from the Hobbits point of view (children in the eyes of Men and Elves) could work very well. 



#8 vgunn

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 04:24 AM

 With a specialty, listening to a podcast of actual play, you get to throw 2d6 instead of one. Do you keep the higher result of the two dice?



#9 pumpkin

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 11:04 AM

 

I think that will be the same as the extra dice you get in team work, but yes, you only keep the total of your "best" overall roll, you don't add the dice together



#10 vgunn

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 11:11 AM

What about any house rules, revisions or ideas to improve issues with the system? 



#11 pumpkin

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 11:24 AM

 

Nope.

 

We haven't use it for any type of long term campaign so there's never been much need to change it, ya just pick it up create some characters and go off and play a few sessions every so often.

 

 



#12 GameBearOR

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 08:33 PM

I DO have some problems with it - and maybe I am doing something wrong with my group. I keep seeing people write about how simple and elegant the L6 system is, but we are finding it a bit wieldy.

The basics that Pumpkin outline are true: in a melee combat both opponents would make Scrap tests, but it is not as simple as the one with the higher result will be the winner.

Say Johnny wants to hit the guard and he has Scrap of 4. How hard this will be is determined by the guard's Scrap (as his defense trait), which is, say a 5. So Johnny needs a 5th grade result to hit the guard, but his normal Scrap ability is only 4. Yes, he would roll a single D6 – but he would need to get a 6 to Boost, raising his result from 4th Grade to 5th Grade. He would then get to reroll the 6 to try and get additional 6 results which would raise his final result even higher. Sounds simple – He would hit him, right? But first we must start calculating in the modifiers, which is where we get bogged down.

 

We have to consider Stature – Is Johnny bigger than the guard (perhaps it is a leprechaun!)? If so, then his initial Scrap trait goes up by one. Then we have to consider if Johnny is using a weapon – say a short sword. That also raises his initial Scrap by one. Also, weapons have Combat Points which have to be spent to alter Johnny’s personal defense or how much damage he is going to do, so we have to decide how he intends to use it. Now, does Johnny have any special abilities or Flaws that affect his Scrapping? Calculate those in. Has Johnny spent time Focusing before attacking, or is there Teamwork involved? That has modifiers.

Finally we let Johnny roll the dice…

Let’s say he does roll a success, now we need to determine if he actually does damage. Damage is not simply “when you hit you do this much.” Damage is done in what I call wound-sets, which is based on the person’s Stature. Kid-sized opponents do 4 points of damage per wound-set. His weapon automatically grants one wound-set of damage. Then, for every 3 grades that Johnny succeeded ABOVE the target (remember, that was the guard’s defense trait, which in this case was Scrap - 5th grade – I know, that seemed like such a long time ago, doesn’t it?), he does another wound set of damage. If he does 6 points above, 2 additional wound-sets. If 9 points above, 3 wound-sets, etc. Once we know how many total wound-sets of damage Johnny does, we add them all up. For instance, Johnny gets a 7th Grade result after calculating everything in the paragraph above, which unfortunately is NOT 3 grade levels above the target, so he does not do a personal wound-set. This leaves him with only the wound-set that the weapon did, and since Johnny is kid-sized that means a total of 4 points of damage. (Stature, remember?)

OHHHhh, but we need to deduct the guard’s Protection rating, which is determined by his own Stature. If the guard is bigger than Johnny – say Adult-sized – then his Protection rating is 5. So we deduct 5 points from Johnny’s damage result of 4 – and he actually ends up doing no damage at all. Yes, even tho we spent 10 minutes figuring out that Johnny actually DID hit the guard, he ends up doing no damage!

Whew! Guard’s turn.

Now, for the record let me say that I like GRIMM. My campaign is going very well and we are having a lot of fun. However, when I hear people talking about how simple and elegant the L6 system is I get one of those “head jerks back, one eyebrow goes up” kind of expressions. Maybe I have interpreted the rules all wrong – lord knows FFG is not known for their well-structured and easily-understood rulebooks. Please tell me if I have. I would LOVE to find out that it is all so much simpler so I can stop getting that bland look from my players while we spend time calculating their Scrap attempts (and don’t even get me started on Wrestling!).

 

Sarcastically yours

GamebearOR
 

 



#13 pumpkin

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 09:00 AM

 

It is much more elegant and simple than the majority of other RPG systems out there, IMO, to my statement in context, because many of the modifiers and additional combat options are far simpler than certainly most other games I play.

It follows the same basic combat roll as most games, in my opinion, where games mostly follow this mechanic:

1.player has a base chance to hit

2. situational modifiers add or subtract from this in some manner

3. player rolls against modified chance to hit

4. in some systems, if the hit is successful the target gets some kind of dodge or parry attempt.

5. Assuming the hit is made and not parried/dodged, then the player rolls damage

6. this damage is modified by things like toughness/stamina or some other natural resistance stat and possibly armour (although in DnD for instance armour is actually applied at point 2)

7. resultant damage is taken off the targets wounds, hit points or whatever else they are called.

The elegance comes from having the stature/scrap/scamper mechanic that you mention of limited natural variability such that in general without other modifiers the small person will find it easy to hit the big person but difficult to hurt them, whereas the big person will find the small person hard to hit, but will hurt them badly when they do. Most other games have an increased amount of variability build into that core mechanic, whereas Grimm builds in the variability almost entirely from the situational modifiers.

There is some maths to do when a difference in stature is involved, buts its pretty simple maths, and as in all probability you'll mostly be doing with kids trying to hit adults and vice versa, it should almost become second nature in applying those modifiers.

I don't think you are missing or misreading any of the rules by the way, you seem to have that pretty spot on! I'm just surprised you see Grimm combat as overaly labourious or complicated. What other RPGs do you play as a comparison?

 

 

 

 

 



#14 GameBearOR

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 05:22 PM

Well, I am old-school AD&D and 2nd edition. Also play CoC and CHILL (Mayfair edition) as well as New World of Darkness (Not Vampire, etc, but the mortal stuff). I have sampled numerous other systems and am somewhat of a system-buff - meaning i like to read different systems just to see whay they are doing differently. And don't get me wrong, I do not necessarily find Grimm overly complicated in it's system. As you say, much of it's mechanics derive from situational modifiers that are an attempt to be intuitive. However I just disagree when i read people describing it as simple and elegant in a way that misleads people to believe that it is a mechanic that seems to flow seemlessly into the storytelling without interrupting it. Most people who describe it only seem to describe the simplistic roll of a D6 and illustrate how it exemplifies testing at your natural ability level most of the time. You yourself disseminated the system down into two people rolling a D6 and the better roll winning when the topic-author wanted honest feedback about how well the system works.

"So to fight, both combatants would make a scrap test for instance, and whoever gets the higher scrap grade wins. which will normally be the one with the higher scrap trait to begin with....which will normally be the evil adult!"

I find the mechanics much for complicated than that, and so far the add-this/subtract-that nature of the Grimm mechanic has severely slowed down our sessions. I appreciate your verifying that we are doing it correctly. So few people seem to be familiar with this game that I am having trouble finding anyone to bounce questions and thoughts off of.

Do I think we will get to the point of doing this mechanic more seemlessly? Sure. Do I think that it is elegant? Aaaaaaaa, not so much. Personally I found nWOD's intuitive mechanics a lot more elegant and we all took to that system's intricacies much more readily.

Grimm is a lot more than Roll a D6 and see if you hit.

 

 

 






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