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Steve Clarney once more


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#1 oldthrashbarg

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Posted 29 January 2010 - 02:16 AM

Hello people,

Several apologies if this has already been dealt with. As I understand it, Steve Clarney (from the LCG core set) was meant to be Miskatonic, but was misprinted as Agency and has been FAQ'ed to stay that way. However, I was wondering if FFG ever printed new corrected cards of Clarney as a Miscatonic character, and if it is in any way possible to get hold of such cards. He just seems much better as a Miskanonic man.

Thanks!



#2 jhaelen

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Posted 31 January 2010 - 10:40 PM

oldthrashbarg said:

Several apologies if this has already been dealt with. As I understand it, Steve Clarney (from the LCG core set) was meant to be Miskatonic, but was misprinted as Agency and has been FAQ'ed to stay that way. However, I was wondering if FFG ever printed new corrected cards of Clarney as a Miscatonic character, and if it is in any way possible to get hold of such cards. He just seems much better as a Miskanonic man.
Maybe we'll get a new version of him in Secrets of Arkham.

I wouldn't count on it, though. We play him as a Miskatonic char around here, btw., because we also think he works a lot better for Miskatonic.

What FFG _really_ should have done is to admit the card was in error, reprint the correct version and offer to exchange it for buyers.



#3 PRODIGEE

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 01:19 AM

I don't share your opinion on this aspect.

The card is well tuned in an Agency deck and, even if it was a design mistake, you have to keep playing it as a Agency character, as the card is now bleu boarded. Of course, miska got lesser characters, but you d'ont need it badly, as a lot more interesting character (dreamers and investigators) are in the miska faction right now.

Twila and Randolph give some power to the faction and, if you add characters like the bounty hunter, you do'nt need extra stuff to play the game ... So, I'll consider him as a miska traitor who decide to join the heavy guys from agency.



#4 jhaelen

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 09:04 PM

PRODIGEE said:

The card is well tuned in an Agency deck and, even if it was a design mistake, you have to keep playing it as a Agency character, as the card is now bleu boarded. Of course, miska got lesser characters, but you d'ont need it badly, as a lot more interesting character (dreamers and investigators) are in the miska faction right now.
I beg to differ! I don't have to play it as an Agency card, unless I'm playing in an official tournament, which in my case means never.

Currently I don't see any other Miskatonic card that would be a satisfying replacement for what Steve Clarney has to offer. None of the alternatives you listed seems to cut it.

Negating toughness is a lot more beneficial for Miskatonic than for Agency, since Agency sports some characters that have toughness themselves. Willpower is also highly sought after in the Miskatonic faction. Ditto the combat icons. I don' think I'd ever build a Miskatonic deck without Steve Clarney.

Steve Clarney is so important for Miskatonic because he's an unusual character for that faction.

He's also clearly an Indiana Jones rip-off. Why would Indiana Jones be part of an Agency faction? That doesn't make any sense story-wise.



#5 MechSpike

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 01:34 AM

Sorry to jump in here, but most of the things that happen in this game don't make much sense...Cthulhu sporting a shotgun, Deep Ones going insane etc.



#6 Hellfury

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 02:09 AM

*Cthulhu walks in to the smoking parlor*

"Say hello to my little Ftagn, Mutha&5$@!"

 



#7 oldthrashbarg

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Posted 10 February 2010 - 05:00 AM

MechSpike said:

Sorry to jump in here, but most of the things that happen in this game don't make much sense...Cthulhu sporting a shotgun, Deep Ones going insane etc.

 

I don't think that's true at all. While I agree that there are loads of examples of incongruity, the game obviously attempts to conform to some sort of pattern that fits the theme. I agree that Clarney makes much more sense as a Miskatonic University character.

Why shouldn't Deep Ones go insane?

 



#8 FredhoT

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 01:19 AM

I  also agree Steve Clarney should come back to Miskatonic University faction, where is is more useful and well themed.

I just easily figure out how difficult it is for FFG to correct that.

That said, one possible way to do it may be to just create a new Steve Clarney card (with a different sub-title), affiliated to MU, with some difference (icons, gametext,...), like for instance for the forthcoming Richard Upton Pickman which becomes Neutral (and was originaly a Syndicate).

 



#9 PearlJamaholic

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 02:21 AM

jhaelen said:

What FFG _really_ should have done is to admit the card was in error, reprint the correct version and offer to exchange it for buyers.

as if that would ever happen, haha.

 

i think steve should be miskatonic not  just cause he seems very powerful as agency but because miskatonic loses so much not having him. how much willpower does miskatonic have, none. and while miskatonic doesnt have much wounding, they are a good support faction and steve would have made that even more evident.

agency and cthulhu have easy ways to wound things, this extra punch shouldnt have been given to agency. its kinda  like the slavering gug. the one thing shub doesnt need is wounding, but it costs a good deal to get it cause the faction is strong without it. i feel the same way about steve. as an agency character removing toughness should be a bit more expensive.

i really feel they should reprint this card as miskatonic, or errata it.



#10 Rince

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 06:55 AM

 I just purchased the core set and also noticed the misprint, which is very disappointing.

Previously, I praised FFG for its high production values, but lately, my opinion is changing rapidly. Letting a card be printed with the wrong faction and therefore disrupting the balance of a large portion of the core set indicates an alarming amount of incompetency within FFG. It is such an obvious mistake that it should have caught the eye of any competent tester, if play testing indeed took place...

Mistakes like this (and the latest fiasco with the Mansions of Madness expansion, in which interconnected rooms were printed on opposite sides of the same card, therefore rendering them utterly useless) makes me doubt FFG as a competent producer of quality games.



#11 dboeren

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 04:44 AM

You're entitled to your opinion of course, but these two events are nearly two years apart.  You might need more evidence to support that conclusion.  I'm not saying FFG is perfect, or that they haven't made other errors, but I do question whether their errors are that much greater than other comparably-sized game companies.

Both seem to be printing errors to me, the games were most likely playtested normally and the problem came in at the printers stage.  So any anger should probably be rightfully directed at that portion of the company and not the playtesters or designers.

I haven't followed the Mansions of Madness issue as I don't own the game, but you're free to house rule Steve Clarney back to a Miskatonic character if you like among your group of friends.  Personally, I wouldn't object to that, although I don't see the error as that big a deal either.  They've had about two years of development for all the factions since then and I think any slight imbalance it may have created can be assumed to have been corrected with new cards or faded into insignificance with the larger card pool.



#12 dboeren

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 05:14 AM

OK, peeked in on the Mansions of Madness issue.  There's been an announcement here:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=2930

Everyone gets free updated pieces for the game to fix the problem and also a free copy of the Arkham Horror "Dance of the Damned" novel.

Sounds like a decent response to me.

 



#13 Rince

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:02 PM

Perhaps I was a bit too harsh; you're right. 

Nevertheless, I do see this issue as a sign of incompetence (maybe not as serious as I first thought, but incompetence nonetheless). Mainly because I don't see other companies make the same kind of mistakes as FFG does.  I play Magic the Gathering for four years now, and I have yet to see a single grammatical mistake printed on the hundreds and hundreds of cards they release each year (let alone a real screw up, like Steve Clarney). And Steve Clarney is not the only mistake FFG made; there are other game play and grammatical errors in nearly every expansion block. 

On the other hand, FFG's response for the Mansions of Madness error was more than adequate. However, if they were more careful they could avoid these embarrassing situations and save the, probably substantial, money they need to spend on correcting them. I just hope FFG learns from these mistakes because despite my harsh word, I do like them a lot and wish to buy their products in the future.

And as for the Steve Clarney issue being "faded into insignificance" by the myriad of Asylum Packs. Well, for the messas perhaps, but unfortunately it won't help me. As I mentioned, I play MtG and--for obvious reasons--I do not want to get into another costly card game (in my estimation LCGs can be as much expansive as CCGs if you get into them). So, I began playing CoC as a "side adventure." I bought the core set and will likely buy the Secrets of Arkham expansion, but this is where I draw the line. I do not wish to buy into the endless cycle of Asylum pack. So, unfortunately, my occasional playing partners and I will be affected by this issue.



#14 Rince

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:02 PM

 

Sorry, for some reason my message has been sent three times.

 



#15 Rince

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 08:02 PM

Sorry, for some reason my message has been sent three times.



#16 TheProfessor

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 02:08 AM

Rince said:

Perhaps I was a bit too harsh; you're right. 

Nevertheless, I do see this issue as a sign of incompetence (maybe not as serious as I first thought, but incompetence nonetheless). Mainly because I don't see other companies make the same kind of mistakes as FFG does.  I play Magic the Gathering for four years now, and I have yet to see a single grammatical mistake printed on the hundreds and hundreds of cards they release each year (let alone a real screw up, like Steve Clarney). And Steve Clarney is not the only mistake FFG made; there are other game play and grammatical errors in nearly every expansion block. 

On the other hand, FFG's response for the Mansions of Madness error was more than adequate. However, if they were more careful they could avoid these embarrassing situations and save the, probably substantial, money they need to spend on correcting them. I just hope FFG learns from these mistakes because despite my harsh word, I do like them a lot and wish to buy their products in the future.

And as for the Steve Clarney issue being "faded into insignificance" by the myriad of Asylum Packs. Well, for the messas perhaps, but unfortunately it won't help me. As I mentioned, I play MtG and--for obvious reasons--I do not want to get into another costly card game (in my estimation LCGs can be as much expansive as CCGs if you get into them). So, I began playing CoC as a "side adventure." I bought the core set and will likely buy the Secrets of Arkham expansion, but this is where I draw the line. I do not wish to buy into the endless cycle of Asylum pack. So, unfortunately, my occasional playing partners and I will be affected by this issue.

I think WotC has made their fair share of mistakes on MtG cards.  I'm sure as a player you are aware of the frequent Errata that are produced for every Magic release, for one reason or another?  It happens - it's a shame, and I wish it could be prevented, but unfortunately game companies are run by humans who have human flaws, and these things are going to happen.  The more popular the game, the better the play-test sessions, and the fewer the mistakes.  Call of Cthulhu is not nearly as popular as MtG, so doesn't have the same level of support.  However, with the addition of new players (like you!) more resources can be applied to the game.  So thanks for joining our cult!  :-)

I enjoy playing Miskatonic, so I was very unhappy that Steve changed teams.  But, there is enough other cool stuff for Miskatonic that it didn't prevent me from having fun building decks and continuing to support the University in games.

Regarding the financial cost, I moved from CCG to LCG when the current version of CoC released.  I now spend $15 per month and I have a full playset of every card that is legal to play.  That's much less than I used to spend on CCGs.



#17 dboeren

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 06:56 AM

I've never played Magic, so I can't say for certain what sort of errors they have or how often.  I have heard that they generate a decent amount of errata though.  Whatever.  Magic is almost a thing unto itself.  FFG is mainly a boardgame company so that's probably the closest comparison.

For example, a couple of games I've been following lately...

War of the Ring is a reprint with updated rules for better balance.  Most everything is going well, but a few people have reported missing models in their box.  And some people have claimed that wording is unclear in a couple of rules.  Frankly, this is impossible to prevent, SOMEONE will always say your wording is unclear no matter how you write it, because someone is always trying to bend the text to say something different than what it really does.  But one or two of them have a legitimate point which may be updated in the next print run.

A Few Acres of Snow is a wargame using a deckbuilding mechanic something like Dominion, except you get the cards primarily by conquering regions on the map.  There's been a big fuss over a supposedly near-unbeatable strategy for the British side involving a specific opening and keeping your deck as small as possible to cycle a specific card.  The designer of the game just put out some errata/changes to specifically address this issue.  The game worked really well in general, and is otherwise highly rated, but had a problem in this one degenerate case.  Sloppy playtesting?  Players not playing the game in the spirit it was intended?  You make the call.

I could name others, but mainly the "complaints" are just people wanting games to be other than what they are.  Flash Point (firefighting game) doesn't include rules for tracking the players oxygen supply.  It's not intended as a simulation, it's supposed to be a fun quick game.  Elder Sign (another FFG title) is too easy, there should be difficulty levels or rules for ramping up the difficulty.  OK, possibly legit, but it's not that hard to adjust it by simply starting with some Doom tokens in play - basically giving less time to deal with the Great Old One before they show up.

Unclear rules = misprints in most people's minds, and half the time "unclear" just means that it was perfectly clear already and they were trying to twist what it said into something else.  Or if nothing is unclear, they'll complain about how the rules are arranged, it should have been explained in a different order or they had to flip around looking for the answer.  Every game has questions, complaints, and so forth.  As long as they're minor or the company deals with them well it doesn't really bother me.

Back to Clarney...  It's true that if you stick with the Core set or only pick up minimal expansions that he won't fade into insignificance, it's not really fair to assume that most players will want to collect more of the game.  Personally, I feel like he should have been errataed back to Miskatonic and replacement cards made available.  Maybe if it had happened today it would have gone that way, I think FFG has learned something about better service since then, but it's too late to change it at this late date.  And that's why if someone wanted to play him as Miskatonic I wouldn't object to it since I know it was originally a misprint.

 



#18 jhaelen

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 09:53 PM

Rince said:

And as for the Steve Clarney issue being "faded into insignificance" by the myriad of Asylum Packs. Well, for the messas perhaps, but unfortunately it won't help me. As I mentioned, I play MtG and--for obvious reasons--I do not want to get into another costly card game (in my estimation LCGs can be as much expansive as CCGs if you get into them). So, I began playing CoC as a "side adventure." I bought the core set and will likely buy the Secrets of Arkham expansion, but this is where I draw the line. I do not wish to buy into the endless cycle of Asylum pack. So, unfortunately, my occasional playing partners and I will be affected by this issue.

There's two simple solutions for you:

- Forget about CoC and continue playing MTG

- Treat Steve Clarney as belonging to the Miskatonic faction

If you'd like to make it known to FFG that you aren't satisfied with the quality of their products, this forum is _not_ the right place. You should use the User Support link at the bottom of the page for that.



#19 Penfold

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 12:09 PM

 You can't possibly have played MtG long if you think WotC doesn't make mistakes, not just in game design/balance, but in editing and copywriting. Check out the list of errata there are tons of little fiddly things caught after the fact. Part of what gives the impression though is Magic uses a rotation which removes most of the cards from circulation so it is easy to forget unless you play in the format where "everything" is legal.

But these things happen. We either learn to accept it or we just become more frustrated and avoid games that otherwise for these oversights is remarkably well done and a ton of fun.

I hope you'll stick around and play the game, it is crazy fun. ;)

 

FYI - I've never found Miska really got the short shrift by losing out on Clarney in the Core Set, even if that is all you play. It is certainly frustrating, but ultimately it does not affect game balance in a meaningful way.



#20 Hellfury

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 09:25 PM

jhaelen said:

If you'd like to make it known to FFG that you aren't satisfied with the quality of their products, this forum is _not_ the right place. You should use the User Support link at the bottom of the page for that.

Why is it not the right place?

FFG reads the forums religiously. Whenever I see Damon Stone at FFG Event Center he is reading these forums on his iPad constantly.

Just because they do not respond here doesnt mean that they dont read them. Thats what these forums are for, is free consumer feedback in an interface they entirely control.

Now if you want a response to criticisms pointed towards FFG, then post at BoardgameGeek. Christian Peterson cannot help himself from trolling there.






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