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More 3e commentary.. why not who else will listen?


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#1 Ares

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:08 PM

So 3e is in full swing in some of the game stores that I frequent which I think is great. I am starting to get some traction with the rules.. finally.

 

I got the chance to test it just before it was released and went into the session looking at all the cards in front of me thinking, hey.. I gave up MtG like 15 years ago (was it even out then?). Then I saw the crazy dice and imaged what a waste of time this session would be for me and my friends. Turns out I had a blast. It was a little chunky here and there but in the end I was really surprised. I played 1e for years and years and reluctantly changed over to 2e a number of years ago. Anyway, here are some of my banes and boons..

 

Firstly, this is a game for GMs. I mean, lets face it this system allows great GMs.. or storytellers rather to thrive. We have played with converting our 2e campaign over to 3e and have been using some of the dice just to see what we get and the results are amazing. For me as a GM, it is like having a story, knowing a story, and this system allows me to really share it with my players.. and depending on how well they roll, I get to share it even more. I feel like we are all on a journey instead of me being the GM with 3 players.. the segregation is over.. lol.. well to some degree.

 

The fact that I can only play with 3 players and only one of them can be 'the thief' (lest I drop another $100) is crap. I won't lie, FFG has done some awesome things with the box set and with time hopefully we will have a few dozen more careers but.. hopefully this will get remedied soon. Moreover, I have no use for the cardboard standups whatsoever other than for coasters or kindling. Seriously, I have been gaming for so long that just the investment in figures alone would by hundreds of these sets. A cardboard thief is useless to me.. and my 3 players. I read this is one of the reviews too but again, save the money on the cardboard figures and the flappy cover and give me some hardback books with easy to find rules.

 

Mechanically the game is pretty sound. Once you are able to get an idea of where to find what you need, things move a little smoother. I have spent a lot of time just troubleshooting trying to make characters, figuring out WTF an advanced skill is and where it goes and where it can be found in the book, not to mention a number of other starting basic type things. Again, a little rough at the start but as you read it and mark the page, you start to get the flow of things down a little easier.

 

Anyway, I guess my main issues with is system is really the limit on players, well cards at purchase, and the general waste of product that veteran gamers will not need and hate to pay money for, and lastly the setup of the main book and the difficulty in finding rules (in a softback that will be torn before I finish this diatribe). Suggestion? Put together a veteran's gamer box for a little cheaper without the useless bits.. hell even if the books are the same if they are hardback I'd buy it, even if only for the extra dice.. which reminds me, seriously only a handul of dice in the the expansion pack.. tsch..

After all is said and done though, 3e in my opinion is a huge step in the right direction in RPG.. Based on concept alone I'd give it 10/10 but I have to pay for it and beg my players to be paitient as I search for that one page with the 3 sentences about advancing stance bars so the rating would have to go a little lower. In the end, I am sure that there will be more expansion type materials and I hope they come with more dice, more careers, and far less cardboard greenskins.. Thanks FFG



#2 DagobahDave

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 02:58 PM

Ares said:

Anyway, I guess my main issues with is system is really the limit on players, well cards at purchase

 

You said it yourself: there's no real limit on the number of players. There's a limit to the number of sets of cards provided in the core set. The fact is, they can be shared.

The same goes for what you wrote about not being able to play two thieves in the same party. It's just not true that you're limited by the number of cards. The only things you need to know about a career during play are the types of talent sockets and the career ability. These can be easily copied by hand, or kept in memory. After the session, all of the thieves can read off the same career card to determine their next advances, just like in earlier editions where players would reference the career listed in the rulebook.

I think V3 intends for PC parties to be diverse. This is something that we see in some small-press games, and it's really clear that WFRP3's designers wanted to encourage it. If you disagree with the designers on this issue, you can make a few photocopies and you're ready to play your own way.

It's funny to me that you consider the cards to be essential to play, but you think the stand-ups are useless. We don't need cards. All of that information could have been included in a rulebook. The cards are a convenience. Certainly, the cost of the cards is far more than the cost of the three punchboard sheets that contain the tokens and stand-ups, and a couple dozen plastic bases.

Ares said:

Suggestion? Put together a veteran's gamer box for a little cheaper without the useless bits.. hell even if the books are the same if they are hardback I'd buy it

 

I don't think there'd be any savings for doing that. It might even cost more than the current set, unless all the books were hardbound into one volume. It sounds to me like the only thing you would ditch are the three sheets of punchboard and the bases, which probably don't cost very much compared to the dice, cards and books. Leaving out the punchboard sheets would mean that the game can't be played straight out of the box because players would be required to furnish miniatures. Of course, the GM could always keep track of combat on scratch paper, but that means more work for the GM and less convenience. That would seem really inconsistent to me, when the cards and the symbols on the custom dice are all intended to give you a lot of depth of gameplay in a convenient format.


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#3 kellylife

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Posted 12 October 2010 - 03:00 PM

 WOW, really nice posts. Thanks for sharing it. 

 

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