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What do people want/expect from a promo-type release?


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#1 talismanisland

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 03:55 AM

I was just musing about expansions after reading up on the Rio Grande English language version of  the "Treasure Chest" collection. For those that do not know, this is a special edition of 13 expansions for 7 Rio Grande/Alea games in one package.

Just to add that this is just a musing of mine and is in no way linked to any market research by FFG, though of course they might read these forums once in a while!

So, what about expansions? Let's assume (safely enough I think) that the current trend with Talisman expansions gives us the four corner boards. After this there might be another board or replacement boards or whatever, but what about cards?

The Treasure Chest mentioned above has 13 expansions for 7 games, so what happens if you do not own some of those games?

What would be the opinion if FFG released an expansion which added to all of the existing ones? Say, 6 characters, 10 Adventure cards, 10 Dungeon cards, 6 Treasure cards, 6 Quests, 6 Endings, 10 Expansion "X" cards etc.

What are the habits of Talisman players/owners? Are we generally a "buy anything no matter what" bunch or are we more discerning? I mean as a whole, as for myself I would (and do) buy anything and everything!!

I would therefore have a use for all of the cards menioned, but if you did not have the Dungeon for instance, you would have some cards that may not see the light of day. This could of course encourage you to purchase the relevent expansions...

Another idea could be player aids with exclusive content, like a set of Toad or Reaper dice along with some "bonus" cards in a small expansion. Perhaps an exclusive vaccum formed plastic card tray for use whilst playing along with some extra cards to go with it. Oddments are being made for other FFG games like resin House cards for AGoT and Arkham Horror dice.

Are you the type that feels their game is broken if they do not own everything? We have seen the reaction of some to the promo cards that were made for Talisman, but is that a general opinion?

Anyway, I think I will leave it at that - bad spelling and all! Remember that this isn't really about what cool things you might like to see released, more about how content could be released and the effect on players that do not own certain expansions. That said, it would be great to see what ideas we can dream up for cool stuff!!


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#2 Nemomon

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 05:46 AM

What would I see as a promo cards?

Generally I'm not against broken cards. promo stuff we can divide into many categories, for example normal promo stuff which only is promo, because it is marked as promo. It is nice to have them, as all other promo cards, but they could be in normal expansion too. And usually are, like Doppelganer/Mimic and Instructor/Academy. Nothing really unique. Or Crown of Command Alternative Ending..

Broken cards sometimes are nice too, 1 or 2 little more powered card among XXX of normal cards might be good.

Promo cards not always needs to be powerful, if for example they are using different theme of appearance. Drawing a card which is much more different than normal card is a joy too.

But personally I would like to see cards using different mechanics. Cards as for now, no matter of expansion, are made in the same way, nothing really new. Could be funny, if with every expansion we would get two promo cards, which could be a small expansion after owning all the expansion. I'll show some examples of new mechanics I would like to see as promo cards:

Attachment Cards

img169.imageshack.us/img169/7563/dolmocplugawca.png

attached to the other cards/zones in play and considered as a 1 single card.

WarZone Cards

Which can be used in any battle or psychic combat no matter of Character who is about to engage in battle or psychic combat, which are modifying the entire fight, its parameters or any other steps of it.


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#3 Lars Gnomish

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 05:48 AM

I own the base game, the Reaper expansion, and the upgrade kit (for the extra cards, option to have two of the same character, etc). 

The only thing I want, and the only thing I am willing to buy, is a more interesting board. I want a non-linear game board with more interesting options, and more opportunity for strategic play, and or, a new endgame, because the existing endgame is kind of underwhelming. 

I would consider buying 'replacement spaces' that cover existing spaces seamlessly. For instance, the current tavern is sort of lame, and a replacement tavern space that offers a greater range of opportunities would be much better.

I do not want the simple game mechanics of Talisman to be interrupted by too many rules variations. I do not want tons of text on the cards. I do not want more characters because I find every set of new characters gets more and more ridiculous and munchkin-y.  

A type of card that has not been used much in game yet, that I think would be quite useful, is an instant teleport card that transports your character to another part of the board, such as unwelcome spaces like The Glade, The Black Knight, etc.

 



#4 Velhart

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 08:03 AM

 

 

I would buy every expansion !

But i hope that talisman expansions will not be included in other boardgames(descent for example) as a big collector box with different games)

Talisman must be on his own.

I  really hope to see exclusive content.  i would buy a talisman tray box to hold your cards along with everything that's included. 

I also want to collect all the promo cards  without it, then it is not complete.

Another exclusive content that i want to see is a new  overlay for the middle region. to add some draw 2 spaces



#5 meggypeggs

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 08:10 AM

Being old skool and playing every edition, I will have to own every expansion...

 

...even Timescape if it came out...and keep it in the origanal celofane wrapping to boost its value



#6 Dam

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 08:20 AM

My key atm/still is more characters. Adventure and Spell cards are very nice of course, more endings wouldn't be bad (Horrible Black Void!!! ).


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#7 StormCaller

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 08:36 AM

Velhart said:

 

 

I would buy every expansion !

But i hope that talisman expansions will not be included in other boardgames(descent for example) as a big collector box with different games)

Talisman must be on his own.

I  really hope to see exclusive content.  i would buy a talisman tray box to hold your cards along with everything that's included. 

I also want to collect all the promo cards  without it, then it is not complete.

Another exclusive content that i want to see is a new  overlay for the middle region. to add some draw 2 spaces

 

I agree,

It getting more and more like a collection where the more is the better! :D :D



#8 JCHendee

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 08:39 AM

talismanisland said:

I was just musing about expansions after reading up on the Rio Grande English language version of  the "Treasure Chest" collection. For those that do not know, this is a special edition of 13 expansions for 7 Rio Grande/Alea games in one package.

Just to add that this is just a musing of mine and is in no way linked to any market research by FFG, though of course they might read these forums once in a while!

So, what about expansions? Let's assume (safely enough I think) that the current trend with Talisman expansions gives us the four corner boards. After this there might be another board or replacement boards or whatever, but what about cards?

The Treasure Chest mentioned above has 13 expansions for 7 games, so what happens if you do not own some of those games?

What would be the opinion if FFG released an expansion which added to all of the existing ones? Say, 6 characters, 10 Adventure cards, 10 Dungeon cards, 6 Treasure cards, 6 Quests, 6 Endings, 10 Expansion "X" cards etc.

What are the habits of Talisman players/owners? Are we generally a "buy anything no matter what" bunch or are we more discerning? I mean as a whole, as for myself I would (and do) buy anything and everything!!

I would therefore have a use for all of the cards menioned, but if you did not have the Dungeon for instance, you would have some cards that may not see the light of day. This could of course encourage you to purchase the relevent expansions...

Another idea could be player aids with exclusive content, like a set of Toad or Reaper dice along with some "bonus" cards in a small expansion. Perhaps an exclusive vaccum formed plastic card tray for use whilst playing along with some extra cards to go with it. Oddments are being made for other FFG games like resin House cards for AGoT and Arkham Horror dice.

Are you the type that feels their game is broken if they do not own everything? We have seen the reaction of some to the promo cards that were made for Talisman, but is that a general opinion?

Anyway, I think I will leave it at that - bad spelling and all! Remember that this isn't really about what cool things you might like to see released, more about how content could be released and the effect on players that do not own certain expansions. That said, it would be great to see what ideas we can dream up for cool stuff!!

talismanisland said:

The Treasure Chest mentioned above has 13 expansions for 7 games, so what happens if you do not own some of those games?

It's definitely a gamble, where marketing strategies are concerned.  Some people might look into other games the don't have after seeing what's in the Treasure chest. Others might not buy it, considering the cost when part of most of that package doesn't pertain to what they own.  Overall, it doesn't look like a good idea. 

talismanisland said:

What would be the opinion if FFG released an expansion which added to all of the existing ones? Say, 6 characters, 10 Adventure cards, 10 Dungeon cards, 6 Treasure cards, 6 Quests, 6 Endings, 10 Expansion "X" cards etc.

Better, and not the same.  That is centered on one game and spread among expansions based in one game. It's stil a little iffy, but a better strategy, considering people who would buy it would already have the base game, and most of the components might be usable one way or another.  And yet still, I would buy a full expansion rather than this.

talismanisland said:

What are the habits of Talisman players/owners? Are we generally a "buy anything no matter what" bunch or are we more discerning?

Discerning, for me.  I like to hear want others think of a new expansion, mostly when something insightful is related.  However my wife leans the other way sometimes, but only based on what she's experienced in previous editions.

talismanisland said:

Another idea could be player aids with exclusive content, like a set of Toad or Reaper dice along with some "bonus" cards in a small expansion. Perhaps an exclusive vaccum formed plastic card tray for use whilst playing along with some extra cards to go with it.

That's a maybe. Well priced extension (rather than expansion) materials would be more intriguing than a hodge podge.

talismanisland said:

Are you the type that feels their game is broken if they do not own everything? We have seen the reaction of some to the promo cards that were made for Talisman, but is that a general opinion?

Never.  All additions are additions and never required.  Even among players groups I've seen from the sidelines, they don't always play ever add-on they have in every game.  Maybe most of the time, but not always.  I don't think the idea of "the games incomplete" is created by the release of an expanion.  People who have that attitude are usually thinking of what was there in a previous edition. They already percieve the game that way inspite of if/when an expansion is released for the current edition.



#9 Tons-Home-rules

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 05:32 PM

I’m of the “no matter what” crowd. I just balance that by having very few active games. On the computer, when I was playing EverQuest, I got every expansion, period, the end. When I quit EQ, and now that I’m playing City of Heroes, it’s the same thing. Every Expansion (City of Villains, the upcoming Going Rogue) as well as every optional purchase pack (Martials Arts booster pack, etc…) gets purchased soon as the cash is there. And, well, the family often sends cash for Christmas and birthdays, so I have a nice nest egg for entertainment.

 

So, as long as Talisman is my current board game, I’m getting every expansion / pack. However, if the game loses my interest (say, every future expansion focuses on PvP, which I despise), then I’ll stop Talisman altogether, and move on to Game B.
 



#10 JCHendee

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 02:53 AM

THR does mention one thing that I would probably grab most of.... well, maybe where Talisman is concerned... BOOSTER PACKS.

It think there's very limited potential for such in Talisman, since it has limited mechanics hence not a lot of opportunity for true variation.  But packs of just cards based dominantly in the Adventure, Spell, Purchase decks would be something I would buy blindly at times.

It certainly worked well for Runebound, from what little I know of that games fan base. And need we really mention MTG as well.... or any number of other games that used the small pack of cards approach?



#11 Velhart

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 03:08 AM

JCHendee said:

 

THR does mention one thing that I would probably grab most of.... well, maybe where Talisman is concerned... BOOSTER PACKS.

 

 

Very interesting.

Booster packs would be a good solution to get new adventure cards.. BUT  there is one thing i want to be certain..( a booster pack must contain a complete collection of cards( or in other words) ...the same cards must be always in the pack.

This way, people can buy a booster pack to get the cards, that they don't have yet. On top of that, it's not expensive.. 

I will not like it, if i must buy 50 + packs because the cards are random, and to complete a 150 card collection for example, with a lot of doubles..

so a solution for that would be..:

Dungeon booster version 1, dungeon booster version 2 etc

Adventure booster version 1, adventure booster version 2 etc



#12 JCHendee

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 05:54 AM

Excellent points, V.  No MTG costly "collector" card hunting nonsense for Talisman!!!

Although I could see something like boosters based on Expansion or Base Game that would include a mix of cards specific to that expansion or base.

Example:

  • Base Booster 1: 12 Adventures, 5 Spells, 3 Purchases, 1 Character
  • Dungeon Booster 1: 12 Dungeon, 5 Spells, 3 Treasures, 1 Character

Or something like these... you get what I mean

 



#13 Velhart

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 06:11 AM

Nice idea's JC !

That is a lot better, and different type cards will be added.

I am only not sure about characters ( a character card will not fit into a little booster pack...

But maybe they can make a separate package for that, or they make the package larger (starterdeck size?), so the character card + the figure will fit in the package..



#14 meggypeggs

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 07:31 AM

Guys, the idea of a booster pack with random cards is a doomed one.

 

I played MTG for a long time before realising that you had to buy boxes of the stuff to compete! The thrill was to have the chase cards but it was an expensive thrill! I really dont want Talisman to head that way to be honest.

 

I am happy with the expansions we have...one board then one small expansion idea and so on...

 

The only card game I play now is LCG Warhammer and thats only because im garenteed the same cards as everyone else...a fab idea.

 

Im sorry if my opinions have upset the apple cart



#15 Velhart

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 07:50 AM

meggypeggs said:

Guys, the idea of a booster pack with random cards is a doomed one.

 

I played MTG for a long time before realising that you had to buy boxes of the stuff to compete! The thrill was to have the chase cards but it was an expensive thrill! I really dont want Talisman to head that way to be honest.

 

I am happy with the expansions we have...one board then one small expansion idea and so on...

 

The only card game I play now is LCG Warhammer and thats only because im garenteed the same cards as everyone else...a fab idea.

 

Im sorry if my opinions have upset the apple cart

But we are not talking about random cards..

I don't want it neither..

The idea is that every boosterpack has the same cards..

But i like it the way it is..

If small expansions like reaper contains a lot of cards with 4 figures, then i have also a nice box with a cover



#16 Lars Gnomish

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 08:22 AM

 

Three words: NO RANDOM BOOSTERS!!! That's a great way to kill off the game, if you ask me. The reason MTG and other CCGs have been so successful is because they work on the principle of everyone buying their own card decks (which is an incredibly lame mechanic for a game, btw, since odds favour the wealthy). Talisman is a board game, and it only requires an investment from ->one person<- to play. There is no incentive to keep buying packs to keep up with the Joneses. Nor is there any reason why someone who doesn't own the main board would invest in random boosters. 

I'd be ok with a non-random booster decks to spice up the adventure deck when the adv. deck starts to get a little stale, but I don't understand why anyone would want more spell cards. In my 40+ games, we've barely scratched the surface of the current spell deck. We don't get much use out of the market deck either. What more do we need from the market deck, anyway? I can only think of two items:

  • a weapon that increases craft the way that a sword increases strength, and 
  • A kind of armour that protects you from psychic (craft) attacks just as normal armour protects from physical (strength) attacks

Also, as someone already pointed out, the play mechanic for Talisman doesn't offer much potential for variation. The game is already reaching the point where cards are starting to get absurd (regeneration rules, etc). Someone mentioned Runebound's huge number of expansions. True, but Runebound has a rules system allows for more flexibility and creativity. Characters and enemies in Runebound have more attributes than their counterparts in Talisman (Runebound enemies have stats for Ranged, Melee, & Psychic attacks plus variable Hit Points and skill checks). In talisman, for the most part, an enemy has 1 statistic: strength or craft. With each successful deck of adventure cards, Talisman's designers would have to come up with a bunch of special rules and exemptions to differentiate the enemies, and that just slows down the momentum of the game.  

Worst case scenario, the designers of Talisman introduce something like Runebound's 'character decks'. Those decks, which were kind of like individual spell decks, were a total disaster. My play group tried them once, and prompted retired the cards to the dust bin. I don't even want to think about them.

Something FFG could do is revise the Character Cards for Talisman to give each character a special objective, so that you have a character specific objective to get a talisman. For instance, a Wizard might need to gain and sacrifice 4 spells. A Warrior might need to sacrifice a magic sword. An assassin would need to kill another character. A theif would have to steal and sell 4 items from the market. A merchant would need to sacrifice 10+ gold. A ghoul would need to sacrifice 4 undead followers, and so on.  



#17 Frog

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 10:01 AM

talismanisland said:

Another idea could be player aids with exclusive content, like a set of Toad or Reaper dice along with some "bonus" cards in a small expansion.

I'd love to have a set of TOAD dice with a pair of TOADIFY spell cards packed in for good measure!  I would by that (probably multiple) in a second!

 

 



#18 Velhart

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 10:11 AM

I think that FFG must release as much expansions as they can, and add the cards what they want.

If someone get some dungeon cards in a expansion, and they don't own the dungeon, then it is the problem from that player and not FFG.

I think that you must see all the expansions as one big game.

But if a expansion will be released with a theme, then it would be nice that a lot of cards fits to that theme.

But other cards as normal adventure cards, and some dungeon cards etc, can still be added..

-

Let's skip the random boosters. i hate it too.

we are actually only talking about this, because people don't want to buy some expansions...( and then it will lead to this..)

If you are a Talisman Freak, then you buy everything

 



#19 talismanisland

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 10:32 AM

Oh my god, random boosters would kill it I think. Though if it did happen I would of course be drawn into the downward spiral, but I would hate myself for it!! Seriously though, I think with the advent of the LCG system, this will be the last thing on FFG's mind.

I like the idea of smaller themed decks though. Goblins, Dragons, Neutrals... I'd like that along with some plain old characters, that are less overgunned and more like the Fantastic Fourteen.


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#20 Tons-Home-rules

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 10:44 AM

I can’t see even a marketing standpoint for random boosters. At least with MtG, if you got more boosters, or if you were lucky, the ultra-rare card gave you an advantage against your opponent.

 

In Talisman, all random boosters would do is make your Talisman gameplay at Bob’s different than at Fred’s, and that’s only if the 1-2 (hey, they are rare, right) cards come up in the 400+ cards there will be by then.

The only conceptual way to make random boosters work (and I’m not advocating this, but this is the only idea that pops in my head right now) is if there were cards that said “Board Owner gets THIS freebie when card is drawn…” which, well, only lends to arguments.

“Lets play at my house using my Talisman board and deck.”

“No! We’re going to MY house, using MY Talisman.”

“Absolutely not. MY HOUSE and using…”

Yeah. That’ll end well.

Otherwise, random boosters just means the experience is that much different. Sure, I have all expansions, and Bob has the base Talisman only, so, at Bob’s house, the game is different. But my “I have them all” and the other guy’s “I have them all” Talisman gameplay is identical, barring home rules of course.

Now, themed expansion packs, that I could get into.

Anti-PvP Decks.
Dragon Decks.
Anti-PvP Decks.
Undead Decks.
Anti-PvP Decks.
Strong 7+ ST/CR Decks.
Anti-PvP Decks.
(see a pattern yet? Heh)

THAT I can get behind.

 

 


 






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