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Unclear: Duel Quests and rout icons for monsters


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#1 Graf

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 07:34 AM

Having properly read the rules, this questions seems pretty unclear: What happens in a duel quest (a hero is dueling a monster) if the monster picks a fate card with a rout icon?

The rules say for heroes: “If it is a rout icon, then the hero may prevent damage this round equal to the number of flags.”
But this rule is explicitly written only for heroes, not for monsters, and the rules keep on accenting that rules for heroes don’t apply to normal units.

There are three possibilities:

1) The rout icon prevents damage as it would do if a hero has picked the fate card.
2) The rout icon works as it would work in a normal fight – so the hero gets routed. But this would end a fight pretty soon, so I can’t believe this.
3) Nothing happens.

I think that the first possibility is the right one, but the rules don’t tell anything about it. Some suggestions?


(Maybe this quote might help: It’s about the special abilitiy of a unit and not about rout icons, but it might be comparable:
“If the neutral unit draws a card with a special ability icon in the
section matching the unit’s base shape, it triggers its special ability
(since, unlike a hero, it does not have the “deal 1 damage” option).”)
 



#2 broken

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 07:55 AM

Though I agree it is incredibly vague on this point, I would argue that all of the steps of the Duel sequence would apply to anything participating in a duel, and the word "hero" should generally be replaced with "hero or unit".



#3 Graf

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 10:26 AM

I agree - that's exactly what I think about it. But I hope FFG will clear this question in an upcoming FAQ. (I'm pretty sure there will be an FAQ in a game of this size and complexity).



#4 Taki

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 10:39 AM

I second that response.



#5 z22

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 06:39 PM

Pg 11: ".... Allied neutral units count towards this limit, but heroes are excluded (since they are not units)."

As mentioned above, and many other places, Heroes are never units.

Pg 28, under "“Duel” Quests", says Heroes on Duel Quests fight neutral units using the duel rules. It also says: "If the neutral unit draws a card with a special ability icon in the section matching the unit’s base shape, it triggers its special ability". This makes one believe that neutral units are considered Heroes during a Quest Duel, meaning, they use Rout symbols to soak damage.

Keep in mind, Neutral Units can use their special abilities during Quest Duels, and that the Razorwing's special ability is to rout UNITS, which can't affect a Hero because they are not Units.

I think that covers everything.

?

 

 



#6 Kias

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 07:52 AM

While I am not saying any of you are wrong here, I am curious about how it is a hero may become routed if special abilities (like the Razorwing's) or rout icons never apply to them. Since the rules mention routed heroes several times, there must be a way for them to be routed.

 

On the point of Razor Wings, and Im not sure how we can anwer this question without the game/cards in front of us, I would ask about the wording in other neutral special abilities and if they specify b/w heroes and units.

 

My opinion on the initial question though, is that nuetrals would temporarily act as heroes, meaning the rout would act as a "block one damage." However, on that same note, I would guess that special abilities applying to "units" will temporarily apply to "heroes" in these duels if no differentiation is made in any of the nuetral creatures' ability text (i.e. all of them read "...apply to unit...").



#7 broken

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:40 AM

z22 said:

Pg 11: ".... Allied neutral units count towards this limit, but heroes are excluded (since they are not units)."

As mentioned above, and many other places, Heroes are never units.

Pg 28, under "“Duel” Quests", says Heroes on Duel Quests fight neutral units using the duel rules. It also says: "If the neutral unit draws a card with a special ability icon in the section matching the unit’s base shape, it triggers its special ability". This makes one believe that neutral units are considered Heroes during a Quest Duel, meaning, they use Rout symbols to soak damage.

Keep in mind, Neutral Units can use their special abilities during Quest Duels, and that the Razorwing's special ability is to rout UNITS, which can't affect a Hero because they are not Units.

I think that covers everything.

?

@z22

Right, heroes are not units.  I don't think anyone contended that they were.  When I said "hero" should be replaced with "hero or unit" I only meant in the context of duels.

Why would your second point make one think that neutral units were heroes in a duel?  Wouldn't you assume that any time a unit was fighting and drew an orb it would resolve its special ability?  That doesn't necessitate that it is counted as a hero.

@Kias

It may be that heroes could become routed via special events and/or tactics cards.  It would be a little silly to let them be routed when dueling neutral units, since they only get to move once per year and a single unlucky card draw at the beginning of a duel would end their turn a little abruptly.

On the subject of neutral units' special abilities working on heroes during a duel, even when they specify "unit": of the three special abilities that only apply to units there is only really a case for the Hellhound special ability.  The Razorwing special ability only applies to "units with initiative 2 or higher", and since heroes do not have initiative (as far as I know) that counts them out.  The Dragon special ability applies to "3 triangle units", and since heroes have a circle base, that counts them out again.  The Hellhound special ability applies to "2 different standing units" with no other caveats, so it might apply.  The Giant, Beastman and Sorcerer have no such qualifiers.

 






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