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LCG Set Rotation?


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#1 Unifiedshoe

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 02:30 PM

Just curious what the rotation policy for the various LCG's are? I demo'd AGoT and CoC a while ago and loved it but never got around to picking it up. Now there are so many chapter packs that it seems daunting to get into the game. Will these be phased out over time? If not are they being kept in print?



#2 vermillian

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 03:30 AM

Just to throw in any form of contribution: I don't know. Lol.

Someone 'important' perhaps mumbled "not for a long while" in regards to rotation, but that could have just been me imagining things and not remembering past events correctly.

AFAIK one of the CoC BPs is already out of print or hard to find...



#3 Unifiedshoe

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 09:42 AM

I went to online and looked at picking up the chapter packs of AGOT. Since I only have the core set I put 2 of each pack in my cart since it's what I would want to play with and it was $338 even after the 30% the retailer was offering. Even if I were only getting 1 each that seems like a steep amount for a new player to look at. Obviously they aren't all necessary to play, but it brought up the idea of rotation and how much people should need to get involved competitively.

If the packs are being kept in print then there can be any number of them out there and dedicated players will get them eventually. It would be nice though if there is no rotation planned for whole cycles to be repacked together so new players can pick them up. If that's not going to happen then how about reprinting core cards from each cycle as a new 1 per card pack?

Anyways, anyone with an official word on the subject?



#4 Lars

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 09:57 AM

if you are trying to get them all at once it might be a bit staggering, but if you cut your purchase down to 4 CPS a month thats only $40 at a time. we've had people catching up to CPS at various times. they are doing fine and soon it will get easier to catch up.



#5 FangsFirst

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 07:32 PM

Actually I think this is my biggest concern for LCG's; aside from the Core set, it's hard to know what to get when you come in mid-stream, which is a concern when recruiting players. The main reason that CCG's have a block-type structure is to help encourage people to buy new product, but it also ties themes together and helps to reset the playing field while still working with the core of the game.

For instance, if you wanted to get in to Magic and wanted to play with the current stuff, I could tell you exactly what you'd want to buy for any tournament type, and this is pretty easy to find on the main site. Of course you'd have to pour gold down the wizard chute to catch up even at the best time for Type 2 block rotation, but it's at least easy to explain.

The LCG's already have the chapter pack rotation set up for rotation naturally, there's very clear divisions and the story arcs link together themes as you'd expect out of a block of expansions. What I think would help these games (and new ones) tremendously is for FFG to post different official play types, for example perhaps you could name a tournament 1 meaning only the current cycle of packs while 2 might mean the current and previous packs.

I imagine it's much easier for FFG to go back to print, but if new players have to wait for an old pack to go back to print chances are they'll move on to something they don't have to wait for. I also don't think FFG will want to continue to make every pack indefinitely, that just seems untenable for both them and for retailers trying to stock the product.

Another side effect of the new 3x packs is that, I'd imagine, there's going to be less extra stuff printed. This has been stated as a desired trait, but I think this will also mean that you'll have less extra packs lying around for new players. Having stuff sell out so it doesn't just sit on the shelf always makes retailers happy, and it'll be a lot easier to catch up under the new theme, but once the set sells out new players might have to wait and that's about the worst thing possible for something you're excited for.

From what I've seen, FFG is looking to be more hands off when it comes to local play, and I think that's a good thing, but I think at least having official formats is a good starting place that people can work with and go from there. Also, I think these games are going to explode even more than they have, especially with this new announcement, and one of the things that can help drive that is a healthy tournament scene. The thing a healthy tournament scene needs more than ever is guidelines, from all of my experience. I'll drive across town for a tourney for a game I like, but there's nothing more disappointing than getting there and finding out your deck's illegal.



#6 Mig el Pig

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 08:08 PM

Yes, but you also have to remember that a magic block(3 sets) is around 530 diffrent cards (and type 2 is 2 blocks and a base set of around 400 cards which makes for a total of nearly 1000 and up to 1500 diffrent cards for legal type 2 deck construction)

 

While the AgoT lcg currently has around 600 diffrent cards ( and it will take them 3 more years of battlepacks(20 new cards every month) to reach a 1000) so I don't think they will get into the  problem of to cardpools that have gotten to big to handle in the near future)

 

 



#7 Lars

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 01:35 AM

Mig el Pig said:

Yes, but you also have to remember that a magic block(3 sets) is around 530 diffrent cards (and type 2 is 2 blocks and a base set of around 400 cards which makes for a total of nearly 1000 and up to 1500 diffrent cards for legal type 2 deck construction)

and that it costs waaaaaaaaay more for a complete set then any LCG (new or established) costs.



#8 FangsFirst

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Posted 07 January 2010 - 04:02 PM

I think you both misunderstood my intent. I did not mean to compare the two in number of cards or in money investment. On the contrary, I like the LCG's smaller card pool as not as many random 'trash" cards have to be thrown in to the pool without much design thought simply to match an expansion's pattern.

My intent is simply an easy way to identify what would be playable in the current environment. If it's everything, so be it, but I can tell you that looking in to AGoT, it can get very confusing as to what is good or interacts with what easily, without having to do a bunch of internet searches or just buying everything. While buying everything is certainly cheaper than in a CCG, it is still a heavy expense a year down the line to start, and that's part of what is helping LCG's to explode. Having suggested formats, maybe even just "Core plus small box expansion plus current arc of packs" can help to make it clear what a person needs to start.

It can also then be used as a jumping off point to larger formats where even more arcs are allowed, sort of how you can step from Type 2 to Extended, all the way to Type 1. One of the biggest enemies that a game faces is confusion as to what product to buy. One of the best things Magic has going for it is the ease of which product you need to buy for what format. I don't want to copy Magic wholesale, that's part of why I love LCG's, all the little differences; rather I think it simply wise and prudent to study what works and see if it can be adapted.



#9 Lars

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 04:15 AM

well they already have this in essence. At gencon they had a Core Set only showdow and as part of the storyline leagues there is a deck building restriction of Core Set plus any two chapter packs (ore 1 expnasion) of your choice.

 

You could run a few storyline leagues a month and change the chapter pack selections(and/or bump them p to 3) it would be a fun way to purchase new chapter packs/round out your collection. In fact a few months before the Martell expansion came out we had a Treaty of the South Tourney in which every player had to run the treaty and a certain amount of Martell cards. This allowed everyone to a) start getting excited for martell again and b) get familiar with the martell cards already out there.

 

Remember, in the end you can play the LCG any way you want. No one is forcing you to go to GenCon and play in the national champs, when you apply for and recieve a league kit no one is looking over your shoulder, so determine how you want to run thigns with your play group and go with it.



#10 JerusalemJones

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Posted 08 January 2010 - 07:19 AM

One of the things they initally announced in regards to the LCG format was that the wouldn't do reprints of the Chapter Packs. Unless we hear otherwise, this is probably safe to work off of, even with the announced changes.

As far as picking up older stuff, our store is able to still get most of the Chapter Packs and Asylum Packs, and still keeps a decent amount of back stock (at least by our standards). New players can still get into the game, and most of us playing the games (at least, in our metas) don't buy 3 of the cps, and many only buy 1. Which is one of the reason why the announced change will benefit many players, and will also bring the cost down which I think will also encourage more people to pick them up.

I hope that they put off rotation for a long time. Proper design of the cards will help ensure there isn't a need for rotation, and the larger sets every six months might allow for balance for new player to work against older cards.



#11 Rogue30

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 07:15 AM

JerusalemJones said:

One of the things they initally announced in regards to the LCG format was that the wouldn't do reprints of the Chapter Packs.

Asylum packs are being reprinted. If people want to buy, why not to reprint?

JerusalemJones said:

I hope that they put off rotation for a long time. Proper design of the cards will help ensure there isn't a need for rotation, and the larger sets every six months might allow for balance for new player to work against older cards.

I agree absolutely. Besides LCG philosophy is different. You must buy Core Set, so rotation would be silly (CS excluded).






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