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Designer Diary on Card-Based Combat


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#1 David Spangler

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 05:10 AM

Corey, I'd appreciate it if you'd do a Designer Diary about combat and why you are using cards rather than dice, the advantages cards give you, and so on.  Dice are being used in such innovative ways in WFRP; I 'm wondering if they couldn't be used in equally innovative ways for combat in a game like this, or even better a dice/card combination with cards setting up the visual/tactical feel of the combat and dice resolving it but perhaps in a way similar to WFRP.

I have no doubt the card-based resolution will work well; while I found it a bit clunky and confusing in Starcraft, I found card-based combat worked very well in MEQ. So I can see the technique evolving and getting better.  But it can still lack some of the tension and thrill that comes when the dice are rolling, so it would still be nice to get some of your design thinking here about this, if you have the time.  Especially as this seems now to be a trend in FFG game design with the new Horus Heresy using cards instead of dice for combat resolution.



#2 Stefan

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 09:43 PM

David Spangler said:

Corey, I'd appreciate it if you'd do a Designer Diary about combat and why you are using cards rather than dice, the advantages cards give you, and so on.  Dice are being used in such innovative ways in WFRP; I 'm wondering if they couldn't be used in equally innovative ways for combat in a game like this, or even better a dice/card combination with cards setting up the visual/tactical feel of the combat and dice resolving it but perhaps in a way similar to WFRP.

I have no doubt the card-based resolution will work well; while I found it a bit clunky and confusing in Starcraft, I found card-based combat worked very well in MEQ. So I can see the technique evolving and getting better.  But it can still lack some of the tension and thrill that comes when the dice are rolling, so it would still be nice to get some of your design thinking here about this, if you have the time.  Especially as this seems now to be a trend in FFG game design with the new Horus Heresy using cards instead of dice for combat resolution.

 

WFRP?



#3 broken

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 02:14 AM

A quick Google yields "Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay", but not how its dice system is innovative.  Presumably: 0 sided dice!



#4 Graf

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Posted 17 December 2009 - 01:16 PM

David Spangler said:

Corey, I'd appreciate it if you'd do a Designer Diary about combat and why you are using cards rather than dice, the advantages cards give you, and so on.  Dice are being used in such innovative ways in WFRP; I 'm wondering if they couldn't be used in equally innovative ways for combat in a game like this, or even better a dice/card combination with cards setting up the visual/tactical feel of the combat and dice resolving it but perhaps in a way similar to WFRP.

I have no doubt the card-based resolution will work well; while I found it a bit clunky and confusing in Starcraft, I found card-based combat worked very well in MEQ. So I can see the technique evolving and getting better.  But it can still lack some of the tension and thrill that comes when the dice are rolling, so it would still be nice to get some of your design thinking here about this, if you have the time.  Especially as this seems now to be a trend in FFG game design with the new Horus Heresy using cards instead of dice for combat resolution.

 

You got an answer:

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1004

 

Thanks to Corey Konieczka - I think it doesn't happen very often that a designer is answering to a question upcoming in a forum in the way he did.



#5 blarknob

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 08:38 AM

I'm very much looking forward to the card based combat system.

 

I absolutely love the combat in starcraft and hope this system lives up to it.



#6 YourBestFriend

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Posted 25 December 2009 - 09:02 AM

blarknob said:

I'm very much looking forward to the card based combat system.

 

I absolutely love the combat in starcraft and hope this system lives up to it.

Be aware that the card based system in this game is VERY different than StarCraft. Instead of making decisions about which card to play, players are making decisions about how they use their special abilities and which units to damage. Combat plays much faster as the focus is building your empire; combat is simply one avenue towards winning the game.



#7 blarknob

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Posted 28 December 2009 - 08:20 AM

 I realize that.  I just wanted to point out my affinity for card based combat.



#8 Taki

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 11:03 AM

Sorry mate, dice are better.  The odds are easier to calculate, there's fun rolling them, and it s easier to deal with a single die being missing compared to losing one of these cards.  Your odds go straight up in flames with missing cards as all the cards are different so you have very little clue about what s gone out of the set so it s hard if not impossible to replace and also hard to notice one is missing.

In final analysis,

Dice > Cards



#9 Stefan

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 08:43 PM

Sorry, mate, cards are better. The odds are steadier to calculate, there's fun not rolling them, and it's easier to deal with you sucking on the card-combat-system than loosing all because of a dice-roll. Your odds go straight up in flames with dice rolling bad results, and there is no guarantee for a middle ground outcome as it is with cards. And with cards, there's actually a strategy to learn, instead of simply rolling a hand of dice.

In the final analysis

Cards > Dice



#10 coobe

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 09:23 PM

i agree with Stefan. Cards are more fun to me and so much cooler than dice... But everyone has his own opinion !

 

So far i love all ive read about the game and its components



#11 broken

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 06:59 AM

All it comes down to is the fact that the dice required to simulate the number of different outcomes they can put in a deck of 30 cards would be incredibly inconvenient.  It doesn't matter if you like dice or cards, a single deck of 30 cards is WAY easier than rolling multiple dice per unit.



#12 Asylur

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 08:26 AM

And consulting multiple tables and charts to allow for the variation that is desired.  I think it's not the number of dice, but the constant chart flipping (and advantage to those who can memorize them all?) that they were really trying to eliminate.

I am drooling over this game and can't wait for my pre-order to come in!

If anyone is looking for a good pre-order, www.thewarstore.com has the game for $69.99 (pre-order ATM).






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