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#1 Lomax

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 01:49 AM

I am not certain whether I have overlooked something, but it seems a little harsh that only the ministrorum and the nobility can afford to live for a month on their monthly salary. Assuming you take the worst possible  accomodation and provisions, only these two classes would be able to get through the month. And should the nobleman dare to try and upgrade his lifestyle to medium, he would be broke after 2/3 of the month.

That is not considering how much stuff like Rotgut or Lho Sticks cost, something Guardsmen abuse fairly regularly. Imagine a soldier who can only afford to get drunk once a month, and who has to throw away 2/3 of his pay to do so. And playing card games with Lho Sticks as currency is actually far more costly than playing with real gelt.

I think the amenities pricing needs an errata. Urgently.



#2 Darkshroud

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 02:21 AM

What you've mentioned was hotly debated when Dark Heresy first came out, some view it as a defining reason behind high crime rates in Hives, others that it's blatantly filled wih mistakes.

Myself? Well personally I view it differently. Taking the accommodations costs as example I view it as "tourist" prices for Acolytes needing to stay somewhere for a night or two. It does say GMs should set prices as they see fit but if you want a more structured view just adjust the prices to the cost being per week instead of day and it makes a more affordable price. I will admit a lot of prices are blatant misprints though (in fact I think some got fixed in the errata).

Hunt around though, plenty o people have done adjusted price lists for all the gear & services in the book.



#3 Brother Domis

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 04:55 AM

Here's how I figure it.

One throne gelt is worth about $5.

Weaponry, armor, gear that grants a combat advantage like photogoggles or rebreathers, leave the prices as they are.  They're priced that way for game balance, and really, the prices are reasonable.  Why is a bolter a tool of the wealthy and elite?  Because it costs $80 to fire.  A rebreather costs $250, which is a bit cheaper than modern scuba gear.

For other things, especially food, lodging, and intoxicants, use the dollar amount to figure it out, adjusting as necessary for location.  You can probaly get a pack of lho-sticks for half a gelt in fairly prosperous areas (you can get cigs for $2.50 in the gas stations around here,) but they might run you 2 gelt a pack in a warzone.  10 gelt a pack is just stupid, and should have been caught before publishing.  Prices for other drugs should also be adjusted so that someone could theoretically afford to be addicted to them, rather than having to spend all their income on 3 hits a month.

So anyway, a gelt is five bucks, set prices accordingly.



#4 Nikitas

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 05:50 AM

Warhammer Fantasy had the same problem, the developers use ridiculous prices to balance the game against adventurers and make the situation worse by including an income chart. My solution was a wholesale revision of the prices and incomes. I'm still working on it, but here is a portion of my changes:

Social Class

Thrones per Month*

Rank Increase

Outcasts (Scum)

200^

20

Drudging Class

300

30

Military Class (Guardsmen)

500

50

Supine Class (Arbitors, Pyskers)

700

70

Learned Class (Adepts)

1000

100

Trading Class (Assassin)

1200

120

Spiritual Class (Tech-Priests, Clerics)

1500

150

Nobility

5000

500

General Goods and Services

Item

Cost

Item

Cost

Rent*

Accommodations*

Lower Class

125

Low Grade

20

Middle Class

300

Mid Grade

45

Upper Class

600

High Grade

90

Lordly

1250

Lordly

200

 

 

 

 

Provisions^

 

Meals^

 

Low Grade

15

Low Grade

5

Mid Grade

30

Mid Grade

10

High Grade

75

High Grade

30

 

 

 

 

Medical Services

 

Transportation

 

Poor

10

Low Grade

2

Average

25

Mid Grade

10

Good

50

High Grade

75

Excellent

150

 

 

Drugs and Consumables

Item

Cost

Item

Cost

Beverages

Narcotics

Amasec (Bottle)

5

De-Tox

 

Recaf

.75

Frenzon

 

Rotgut (Bottle)

2.50

Injector

 

 

 

Lho-Stick (Pack)

1.50

Miscellaneous

Obscura

 

Ration Packs (1 Day)

10

Slaught

 

Medikit

 

Spook

 

Sacred machine Oil

 

Stimm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#5 Snidesworth

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 05:55 AM

Alot of the basic commodity prices are ludicrously inflated. I also suspect that the income of each social class is what you end up after living expenses have been taken care of.



#6 Nikitas

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 06:00 AM

Hmm... that didn't work.

Monthly Income

Outcasts (Scum)  200 (Base)
Drudging Class  300
Military Class (Guardsmen)  500
Supine Class (Arbitors, Pyskers)  700
Learned Class (Adepts)  1000
Trading Class (Assassin)  1200
Spiritual Class (Tech-Priests, Clerics)  1500
Nobility  5000

Goods and Services

Rent

Lower Class    125   
Middle Class    300
Upper Class    600   
Lordly    1250  

Accomodations

Low Grade    20
Mid Grade    45
High Grade    90
Lordly    200

Meals

Low Grade    5
Mid Grade    10   
High Grade    30  

Medical Services

Poor    10
Average    25
Good    50
Excellent    150

Misc.

Amasec (Bottle)    5
Recaf    .75
Rotgut (Bottle)    2.50
Lho-Stick (Pack)    1.50



#7 Graspar

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 06:03 AM

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0122.html

 

 



#8 Headhanger

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 09:50 PM

Snidesworth said:

...I also suspect that the income of each social class is what you end up after living expenses have been taken care of.

That's how I see it.

I don't think that your get your Imperial Guard bounty and have to pay for your corpse starch rations.



#9 Ikkaan

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 10:38 PM

Well, another go would be that the money a noble gets is just the money he would earn if he worked himself as an advocat, etc.

Realistically nobles would exploit a lot of peasants for very little money while squeezing the most gain out of their work. Forgive me if i reuse an internet phenomenon:

1. Be a noble
2. Let your peasants work their a**es off
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

As for lower classes, yes, everyone is poor! Either you get shady or enter lifelong service for someone that provides food and shelter or you don´t survive. Plus, children´s  work and big families supporting each other may also work.

Ah, well, it doesn´t sound nice.



#10 col huckenbein

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 06:41 AM

I've had a few ideas on the idea of costs and wages, etc.

Firstly, the idea of indenturement comes to mind. This is basicaally contract slavery: The worker signs a contract promising to work for a umber of years. Food and lliving accomodation are supplied to the worker, but he is not paid. I can imagine workers in the 41st millenium operating in similar conditions: working in a manufactorum, living in manufactorum supplied accomodation and eating in manufactorum canteens (with their children attendeing manufactorum schools) etc.

Secondly, there appears to be the assumption that workers should be able to buy things. This is a relatively new idea: not until the 1920s (and Fordism) were workers supposed to afford things like cars and other consumer items. Workers should simply not be able to afford that much. Drugs, etc would almost certainly force workers to turn to crime (look up the use of opium in Victorian London for ideas)

The way i have always thought of the warhammer 40000 universe is not earth in the year 2000 with technology 38,000 years into the future, but earth in 1800 38,000 years into the future.

just my two thrones.



#11 Darkshroud

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 11:25 AM

col huckenbein said:

I've had a few ideas on the idea of costs and wages, etc.

Firstly, the idea of indenturement comes to mind. This is basicaally contract slavery: The worker signs a contract promising to work for a umber of years. Food and lliving accomodation are supplied to the worker, but he is not paid. I can imagine workers in the 41st millenium operating in similar conditions: working in a manufactorum, living in manufactorum supplied accomodation and eating in manufactorum canteens (with their children attendeing manufactorum schools) etc.

 

Funnily enough i've seen some fluff to that effect, though it was harsher in that a whole familly name is contracted to work for some noble house factory though they are paid a measly wage (about enough to drown their sorrows in some rotgut booze on Fiday night ).



#12 Sanzionita Magnus

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 04:00 PM

that's my go at the problem: the problem does not exist.

point one: every one planet in the Calixis sector have an economy on it's own, so you can't keep with everyone on one only rulebook. on that planet a lho cost this much and on one another two times and so on.

pont two: why bother with prices when there's a galaxy to save fron the lure of chaos?? who cares if you have something to shatter your lungs with or not? use your time better finding out who's behind that strange mood in Stalenum Hive, nobody cares if you eat this or that or drink or sleep well. bring your skin back home or you'll have to face your inquisitor's rage!!

 

well, that's my idea...



#13 Victus

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 04:07 PM

Sanzionita Magnus said:

that's my go at the problem: the problem does not exist.

point one: every one planet in the Calixis sector have an economy on it's own, so you can't keep with everyone on one only rulebook. on that planet a lho cost this much and on one another two times and so on.

pont two: why bother with prices when there's a galaxy to save fron the lure of chaos?? who cares if you have something to shatter your lungs with or not? use your time better finding out who's behind that strange mood in Stalenum Hive, nobody cares if you eat this or that or drink or sleep well. bring your skin back home or you'll have to face your inquisitor's rage!!

 

well, that's my idea...

 

Right... There are to man different planets to bother about the cost of everything (juste keep iun mind to keep the prices of guns relativelly balanced). So Grab your nuts and fight chaos, it's not time to check on the cafeteria's menu!



#14 Kage2020

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 04:31 PM

col huckenbein said:

 

The way i have always thought of the warhammer 40000 universe is not earth in the year 2000 with technology 38,000 years into the future, but earth in 1800 38,000 years into the future.

 

 

That's cool enough.  I go the other way myself, trying to discerns the means in which high technology can be obscured by the appearance of "retrotech."  Thus that scroll isn't a scroll, but rather an advanced computer that just happens to have an "e-paper" user interface.  The rituals of the Adeptus Mechanicus hide the knowledge behind rote forms, rather than represent bumbling idiocy.  More sci-fi than fantasy, if you will.  

Not saying that it is better, just different...

That might be just me, though.

As to why bother with prices?  Why do the guns have prices?

Kage



#15 Da Boss

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 11:10 PM

I must admit I can't recal the last game I ran (in various systems) that I bothered with money....................

Even in my last WFRP campaign  - the players were not worrying about finding enough money to live - just their fights against Chaos, their interactions with important NPCs and political groups like the local Dwarfs, the Wizards Guild and the temple of Sigmar, their romances, friends and enemies etc etc............

not saying its the way to go but I personally just don't worry about it that much........................

same last time I ran Inquistor style game - money was irrelavant






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