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Where is my Albatross two seater?


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#1 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 10:41 PM

 The Albatross C planes were among the most used planes of the war. Manfred Von Richthofen himself flew a Albatross CIII before he got picked for Jasta 2. And yet we got a Roland CII and a Hansa-brandenburgh CI made by UFAG but no Albatross plane. And no, my really thick biografy about the red baron never even mentions Roland but have several pictures of the Albatross CIII.

The albatross C class was important for the Luftstreitkräfte for the greater part of the war. Roland was also a fine plane of course but I want an Albatross as the next central powers 2 seater. a CX or CXII works as well as the CIII if it is needed for balancing up the allied 2 seater.

I did purchased a Reveresco Albatross CIII and have ordered a SRAM  CXII for my games but we really should have an official Wow model here.

To be honest is the speed of making more WW1 models a bit slow for my taste, obviously are we buying the planes as soon as they comes out, the older series are impossible to find so how about making the series to include more types of planes? There are really a lot of planes to choose from so that shouldn't pose a problem and since we buy out the stuff you make we can afford more planes faster than we get now, everyone would be happy...

Anyways, I just thought I should make a little lobbying for my favorite 2 seater (my favorite scout is Fokker DVI BTW, I want it badly and have ordered one from SRAM, too bad it takes at least 6 weeks to get the stuff from them).

 

Richthofen completed his training and started flying a two-seater Albatross C.III in April 1916. He scored his first victory over Verdun, but received no official credit. Regardless, the Red Baron was proud of his win, the first of many.



#2 IRM

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 05:35 AM

There's a number of 2-seaters that could/should have been done by now IMO, like the British FE2 and BE2 , French Voisin and German LVG (not sure about it's full name). All of them (or upgraded versions) were used until at least mid-1917 (long past their useful lives in the case of the allied planes).

In the case of the Albatros 2-seater (and pretty much all of the German 2-seaters for that matter), I think that since the game stats would be fairly close to the more recognisable (at least to the casual gamer) Roland anyway, they just stuck with that for now. Having broad types works well enough for game purposes, it's just pernickity folk like us that need to have the exact planes I did pick up a pair of Hannovers as generic Roland replacements from late 1917 myself. Nice-looking planes.

I don't know if you've spotted yet, but there's been some information about plane stats for the forthcoming booster packs posted up at the Aerodrome site. Spad VIIs are to use the B deck and the Bristol Fighters are to use the H deck with an added Immelman card (but have a special rule that prevents the rear gunner from firing during the Immelman and the cards before and after).



#3 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 08:17 PM

IRM said:

There's a number of 2-seaters that could/should have been done by now IMO, like the British FE2 and BE2 , French Voisin and German LVG (not sure about it's full name). All of them (or upgraded versions) were used until at least mid-1917 (long past their useful lives in the case of the allied planes).

In the case of the Albatros 2-seater (and pretty much all of the German 2-seaters for that matter), I think that since the game stats would be fairly close to the more recognisable (at least to the casual gamer) Roland anyway, they just stuck with that for now. Having broad types works well enough for game purposes, it's just pernickity folk like us that need to have the exact planes I did pick up a pair of Hannovers as generic Roland replacements from late 1917 myself. Nice-looking planes.

The Hannover is a nice plane (I assume we are talking CLIIIa, right?) but it is not the same type of plane like the Rolands, CL planes (Halberstadt CLII is probably the most famous of them, I have one of those myself) are made for strafing and scouting. They are a lot smaller than the larger C class that can take bombs and solve a lot more types of missions

A - Unarmed reconnaissance monoplane aircraft (for example the Rumpler Taube and Fokker M.5)
B - Unarmed two-seat biplane, with the observer seated in front of the pilot.
C - Armed two-seat biplane, with the observer (usually) seated to the rear of the pilot.
CL - Light two-seater, initially intended as escort fighters - latterly mainly used for ground attack.
D - Doppeldecker - single-seat, armed biplane, but later any fighter - for instance the Fokker E.V monoplane was redesignated the D.VIII.
E - Eindecker - armed monoplane - initially included monoplane two-seaters. New monoplane types at the end of the war designated as "D" (single seat) or "CL" (two seat).
Dr - Dreidecker - triplane fighter (prototype Fokker triplanes initially "F")
G - Grosskampfflugzeug - Large twin engined types, mainly bombers (initially "K")
J - Schlachten - Armoured ground-attack aircraft
N - "C" type aircraft adapted for night bombing
R - Riesenflugzeug - "Giant" aircraft - at least three, up to four or five engines - all serviceable in flight

I myself have only a single Halberstedt right now together with a AEG GIV heavy bomber and a Junker JI to use for anything except Scouts after summer 1917. I have comparibly about 20 german scouts from the same period, the planes are really hard to find but are a very important  part of the game.

As for the argument that most people don't need the exact plane, the difference between the Roland and the later german C planes are rather big, in that case they should have scrapped one of the Albatross types instead because they look a lot more similar.

The fact is that we only have german 2 seaters from may 1916 to Aug 1917 and Allied from January 1917 to the end of the war. That just isn't enough. A allied 2 seater from 1916 (like the popular Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter) and a Albatross CX or CXII or a LVG CV as you suggested (July 1917 to the end of the war).

While I think it is nice that they add the SALM plane in the next expansion I think they should have added 2 more 2 seaters to the next set, there is a huge hole where there is no 2 seaters from and there are very few to find even if you buy the planes from other sources. Hannover and Halberstadt are the only 2 german 2 seaters used post 1917 if you don't count Junker JI or don't order the really expensive and fragile resin kits from companys like SRAM.

As I see it is the big holes in the timeline right now a german scout from 1916, a german 2 seater post 1917, a british or frensh 2 seater pre 1917 and a lot of planes from the eastern front, there we basicly only have Albatross DIII, the Hansa-Brandenburgh CI and Spad XIII right now, not a particularly fair mix. The Salm and Aviatic will will even out things a bit and I agree with those 2 but the choice of Nieuport 16 sucks, it has no german scouts to fight against, just balloons and Rolandss, and france already had Nieuport 17 that only arrived a few months later.

There is many holes to fill in yet and my question is still: Where is my Albatross C class plane?



#4 csadn

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 09:32 PM

You get your Albatros C when I get my Hanriot HD.1.... :)



#5 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 22 November 2009 - 11:08 PM

csadn said:

You get your Albatros C when I get my Hanriot HD.1.... :)

It is at least possibly to buy a metal Hanriot, the only Albatross C plane you can find is the CIII which was used at the same period as the Roland.

Revirescos Hanriot DI kit (1/144 of course)

Skytrex Hanriot DI kit



#6 IRM

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 02:57 AM

Thanks for the info, interesting stuff. I already knew the CLIIIa wasn't used as a bomber, but the game's not so specific regarding aircraft roles and since I only wanted one more type of German 2-seater to represent later war aircraft I decided to pick the one I liked the look of best.



#7 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 03:26 AM


IRM said:

Thanks for the info, interesting stuff. I already knew the CLIIIa wasn't used as a bomber, but the game's not so specific regarding aircraft roles and since I only wanted one more type of German 2-seater to represent later war aircraft I decided to pick the one I liked the look of best.

It is not a bad choice, there isn't any late C class plane except SRAMs Albatross CXII out there. But I recommend that you'll get a bomber also for the type of missions that the Hannover can´t handle. The reason I myself choose the Halberstadt instead was just nostalgia, it was one of the planes in Blue max 1st edition so I played it a looong time ago.

Wings of war is kinda bad with practical information. I wish they made a compendium with dates for when the plane was used, which planes that was used for what and by who and so on. Add a few scenarios and some info about the pilots and print it as a hardback, I would buy it. Fortunately for me are there Osprey publishing and Windsock datafiles that publishes books on the subject and of course the net, the classes was just cut and pasted from wikipedia but the information is good to have.

Well, there is one central powers Wow C class plane that were used late, the Hansa-Brandenburg C.I/Ungarische Flugzeugfabrik A.G CI. It was used from Spring 1916 and until the end of the war. The engine was upgraded several times but I still wouldn't want to fly it in 1918. And since it only usable by Austria (and Poland) it won't do for western front games. So august 1917+ is still empty.

I will post pictures and a small review of the SRAM plane as soon as I get it (which probably will take another month, they make the kits after you order). I plan to change all struts and other parts where it is possibly to piano-wire. Resin is just too weak.



#8 csadn

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 12:07 PM

Pour Le Merite said:

It is at least possibly to buy a metal Hanriot,

Yes, but one has to build and paint it oneself, which is at this point Not An Option for me. :P



#9 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 04 December 2009 - 07:40 PM


csadn said:

 

Yes, but one has to build and paint it oneself, which is at this point Not An Option for me. :P

Well, the building part isn't that hard for the small planes as long as you use the right glue. Painting is more work unless you just spray it in brown but there is also decals available which you can put on instead of painting.

It is of course a matter of taste if you like doing things like this but it isn't hard or expensive. It takes me 10 minutes to put a plane together and another 30 minutes to paint it (not counting time when the paint is drying). For someone thats never done it before it would however take longer.

Why don't you just ask your fellow players if anyone can put it together for you? There is usually a Warhammer player in a Wow group or someone that made plastic kits as a kid. We have 3 guys that fixes up the planes for the guys who don't paint themselves, we thinks that the more planes we have the funnier will our games be.



#10 csadn

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 09:30 PM

Pour Le Merite said:

Well, the building part isn't that hard for the small planes as long as you use the right glue. Painting is more work unless you just spray it in brown but there is also decals available which you can put on instead of painting.

It is of course a matter of taste if you like doing things like this but it isn't hard or expensive. It takes me 10 minutes to put a plane together and another 30 minutes to paint it (not counting time when the paint is drying). For someone thats never done it before it would however take longer.

Well, I don't have glue, or paint This is due to my not having a space where I can safely glue and paint things all the well-ventilated parts of the house are also Well-Accessed By Cats, and there's no way in Passchendale I'm going to leave something with glue and paint where a cat can get to it. (Esp. as one of them is a feral-born male who, to put it mildly, quite literally sticks his nose into *everything*. Yes, he's an idiot. :) )

Pour Le Merite said:

Why don't you just ask your fellow players if anyone can put it together for you? There is usually a Warhammer player in a Wow group or someone that made plastic kits as a kid. We have 3 guys that fixes up the planes for the guys who don't paint themselves, we thinks that the more planes we have the funnier will our games be.

If you look at my profile, you'll see it says, "This Person Has Zero Friends".

This is, sadly, all too accurate.... :P



#11 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 06 December 2009 - 10:27 PM

 Well, glue and cats isn't a problem, the super-glue I use dries in 30 secs (I use Loc-tites gel superglue). There is still of course the chance that a cat gets hold of a model but the chance is the same with the Wow planes. Any other glue than fast drying super-glue in a gel just isn't good enough, the planes fell apart when you play. The fumes of the super-glue isn't that bad, just sit near a window to be sure. My worst incident with super-glue is to have annoying drops at the skin for a few hours, don't get it in your eyes when you glueing and you and the cats are fine. 

Painting is another matter, there is non toxic paints that are water-based but there is still nothing on earth that can keep a curious cat away. The best way (at least with British planes) is to spray paint them outdoors (preferably not in the winter) and then add a few details with the water-based colours, and the usually lighter colour under. A few water-based and a can of spray paint in the British brown is all you need then, it is not expensive or dangerous (I don't have any cats right now but have grown up with a lot of them, as long as you never leave any toxic up and preferably keep the drying plane in a small box that is hard to reach to avoid cat fur in the paint and you are ok).

As for people to play with (you don't need friends, just people to play with, I don't even know 50% of the people in my campaign and only see them when we play Wings of war or Blue max), try to go to a local convention. They always have a billboard, put up a note that you look for players, or just join one of the games there. In the worse case scenario you just get to play a lot at the convention but almost any group have room for another pilot and Wow players exist all over the world.



#12 csadn

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 08:32 PM

Pour Le Merite said:

 Well, glue and cats isn't a problem, the super-glue I use dries in 30 secs (I use Loc-tites gel superglue). There is still of course the chance that a cat gets hold of a model but the chance is the same with the Wow planes. Any other glue than fast drying super-glue in a gel just isn't good enough, the planes fell apart when you play. The fumes of the super-glue isn't that bad, just sit near a window to be sure. My worst incident with super-glue is to have annoying drops at the skin for a few hours, don't get it in your eyes when you glueing and you and the cats are fine. 

Haven't been able to find that brand up here (OR, US); most of the stuff I can find demands a well-vented space, and has a side-effects list which reads like Gandalf's spellbook. :P

Pour Le Merite said:

Painting is another matter, there is non toxic paints that are water-based but there is still nothing on earth that can keep a curious cat away. The best way (at least with British planes) is to spray paint them outdoors (preferably not in the winter) and then add a few details with the water-based colours, and the usually lighter colour under. A few water-based and a can of spray paint in the British brown is all you need then, it is not expensive or dangerous (I don't have any cats right now but have grown up with a lot of them, as long as you never leave any toxic up and preferably keep the drying plane in a small box that is hard to reach to avoid cat fur in the paint and you are ok).

Well, it *is* Winter here, as I type this and it was 10 degrees F with wind chill this morning.... :)

Spray paints also require ventilation I learned that after a near-disastrous encounter with a can of paint and a closet.... :P

Pour Le Merite said:

As for people to play with (you don't need friends, just people to play with, I don't even know 50% of the people in my campaign and only see them when we play Wings of war or Blue max), try to go to a local convention. They always have a billboard, put up a note that you look for players, or just join one of the games there. In the worse case scenario you just get to play a lot at the convention but almost any group have room for another pilot and Wow players exist all over the world.

Actually, I do attend the local gaming con however, the mini-makers are all at the _WH40K_ table.... :P

I'll wait until I can put together a safe building/painting area.



#13 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 06:13 PM

Wall-mart have loctites products, they are one of the largest glue companies in the world. Check their web page  for retailers close to you: www.loctiteproducts.com/ The worst thing with my regular glue is that sometimes you get a little on the skin and it takes a few hours before it falls off.



#14 csadn

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 09:01 PM

Pour Le Merite said:

Wall-mart have loctites products,

I live in Portland we don't have Wal-Marts here (that commercial ecological niche is filled by Fred Meyer). :)



#15 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 05:47 PM


csadn said:

 

 

I live in Portland we don't have Wal-Marts here (that commercial ecological niche is filled by Fred Meyer). :)

Ah, sorry. I had the impressions they were everywhere, never been closer to US then Habana yet :) Still, there are other stores, just check the homepage (or ask about a similar super glue at any hobby store, just get a gel).



#16 Mayhemmac

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Posted 15 December 2009 - 01:32 AM

Go to WalMart dotcom, there are several stores in the Portland area.
Even Fred Meyer or Safeway will have Loctite glue, I have found it at Dollar stores and auto shops as well as Michael's Hobby Lobby even Jo-Ann's.
Also 1/144th scale is small enough to use small bottled paints which you should be able to keep from a cat long enough to dry. If you use the Acrylic paints,again sold in the stores listed above there is no smell and noxious fumes. Try it it is fun to do and you only get better with practice.






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