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Patrol Wagon movement question


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#1 Arborshate

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 02:07 PM

Here's a question that came up while I was replying to the newbie question on movement, but I figured that this is a more "advanced" question, so I figured that I'd put it here: 

Come to think of it, here's another question.  One of our players in particular rushes off to the Police Station the turn after he gets the 10-toughness-equivalent to get the Deputy stuff, so this is quite relavent.  We know that the Patrol Wagon acts like a teleporter, allowing one to go from any area to any area without having to worry about formulating a path or evading intervening monsters, only having to deal with evading monsters at the starting area and evading or fighting monsters at the final destination.  As you'll recall, investigators are allowed to trade items (common, unique, spells) and money at any time that they're in the same area, except during combat.  However, would the Deputy (or whoever had the wagon at the time) be able to start at point A, go to point B, trade with an investigator there, and then go to point C? 

So, for instance, a Deputy having just been kicked out of the General Store decides that an investigator who just got hospitalized could make better use of that obligatorally-purchased Knife than she could, and wants to stop at St. Mary's Hospital before heading up to the Curiositte Shoppe.  Would this (Rivertown streets -> St. mary's Hospital -> Curiositte Shoppe) work with the Patrol Wagon?  We're currently playing that it does, but I want to know if there's anything in the rules that might interfere with this. 



#2 thorgrim

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 02:53 PM

Again its another one of those cards that can be read multiple ways. Does the term "normal movement" mean instead of the whole "Arkham Movement" section of the rules, or does it mean instead of moving from one location to another adjacent location?

 

I think though that if you give movement points along with the wagon, it is extremely overpowered. The way I read the card is that a single movement with the patrol wagon replaces your movement points. You cannot visit multiple locations in the same phase.



#3 MrsGamura

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 03:54 PM

 or read Tomes and drive!



#4 Arborshate

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 05:00 PM

thorgrim said:

Again its another one of those cards that can be read multiple ways. Does the term "normal movement" mean instead of the whole "Arkham Movement" section of the rules, or does it mean instead of moving from one location to another adjacent location?

I think though that if you give movement points along with the wagon, it is extremely overpowered. The way I read the card is that a single movement with the patrol wagon replaces your movement points. You cannot visit multiple locations in the same phase.

Well, that's doubly-harsh.  Not only would there be no stops in between, but one also couldn't use anything requiring movement points. 



#5 thorgrim

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 05:53 PM

That's the price you pay for being able to move practically anywhere with no need to worry about the distance from point A to point B and the monsters in between.



#6 Arborshate

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 06:38 PM

thorgrim said:

That's the price you pay for being able to move practically anywhere with no need to worry about the distance from point A to point B and the monsters in between.

I guess that I'm sort of playing Nodens's advocate here when I say:  I thought that the price was 2 gate trophies, 10+ toughness of monster trophies, or 1 of one and 5 of the other.  



#7 Tygr

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 07:14 PM

I think you don´t have to use Patrol wagon, it´s like normal item. You can choose you will move normally, then you can spend the movement points and trade "on the way" with other investigators.



#8 thorgrim

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 07:21 PM

I just think it far too easy for an Investigator with 4 movement and the patrol wagon to trade with one Investigator in Arkham, one in Dunwich, one in Kingsport and then head back to Arkham to have a fight, then the very next turn return the equipment to the rightful owners and still have an encounter.

 

Otherwise you could also do such things as have investigator A running the board with the patrol wagon collecting cash from other investigators, just to drop all that cash off at investigator B sitting at the curiositie shop during each movement phase. Investigator B then goes looking for items each encounter phase, and the very next movement phase investigator A gets the item, takes it to wherever it is needed, picks up any cash gained in the last encounter phase, then rinses and repeats.

 

I think it much more logical that to be able to move to virtually ANY location regardless of what's in the way, you can't repeatedly do it in the same phase. While it is a car, compared to other investigators walking, it is still only 1926, cars weren't that speedy and reliable to be able to travel between three different towns in the time one person walks a mile or two.

 



#9 Arborshate

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 08:09 PM

thorgrim said:

I just think it far too easy for an Investigator with 4 movement and the patrol wagon to trade with one Investigator in Arkham, one in Dunwich, one in Kingsport and then head back to Arkham to have a fight, then the very next turn return the equipment to the rightful owners and still have an encounter.

Otherwise you could also do such things as have investigator A running the board with the patrol wagon collecting cash from other investigators, just to drop all that cash off at investigator B sitting at the curiositie shop during each movement phase. Investigator B then goes looking for items each encounter phase, and the very next movement phase investigator A gets the item, takes it to wherever it is needed, picks up any cash gained in the last encounter phase, then rinses and repeats.

I think it much more logical that to be able to move to virtually ANY location regardless of what's in the way, you can't repeatedly do it in the same phase. While it is a car, compared to other investigators walking, it is still only 1926, cars weren't that speedy and reliable to be able to travel between three different towns in the time one person walks a mile or two.

Well, first of all, the Patrol Wagon was made before any of the expansions, in particular the big box ones.  Also, I don't know how well logic would apply, anyway.  After all, it's possible to travel to a location, then activate a Motorcycle to read a Tome.  In fact, it's possible to camp a location while recieving no movement points (i.e., Speed 0, or Speed 1 and one of those -1 movement point effects), but then use a motorcycle or some maps in order to sit there and read a book.  

Also, in your example, the investigator doesn't need any movement points if he has the Patrol Wagon. 

Also, we never really have that problem.  Either that player gets 10+ toughness of monster trophies early because his character was already well-equipped, or he gets the deputy stuff later in the game, by which point he has already accrued considerable equipment.  He also tends to play Jenny Barnes, and Deputy Barnes gets at least $2 per turn, so there's no cash-collecting, either.  Of course, I do see your overall point, since Deputy McGlen might go around collecting money to hand off to Monterey Jack, or even Bob Jenkins.  

Ia Fhtagn! 



#10 jhaelen

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 09:53 PM

Tygr said:

I think you don´t have to use Patrol wagon, it´s like normal item. You can choose you will move normally, then you can spend the movement points and trade "on the way" with other investigators.
That's how I'm playing it.



#11 Mike

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 12:21 AM

I would got with Tygr's interpretation. Consider the situation: if you allow one stop in between start and end, you have to allow multiple stops, too (everything else would just be a house rule). Coming from this corner, it is possible for a single investigator to visit every location on all boards and all streets during his movement phase. Considering that every movement phase has the same length for all investigators, that would mean the investigator in question would be at all points in all towns (and by extension in the world) at the same time!

This might not be impossible for Great Old Ones, but for a 1920s Ford T it definitely is - even with a Flux capacitor.



#12 MrsGamura

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 09:18 AM

You just choose your route...the longest or shortest way then move and if there happens to be investigators between point A and B guess you guys are trading

...but it does replace your normal movement so no reading tomes and other things that require movement points to use...
 
if you did not allow trading like this via the Patrol Wagon you would only be able to trade at points A and B while using the Patrol Wagon!
 


#13 Mike

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 10:38 PM

Well, what if I choose a route that leads through all locations? Will you tell me I must choose between shortest or longest way? Because if you do, you are constructing a house rule again, as nothing on the card even remotely implies such a thing.



#14 thorgrim

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Posted 06 December 2008 - 11:42 PM

I don't think there is a "choosing your route" with the patrol wagon. You simply move from location A to Location B, no detours, no stops.

 

If you had to choose a route with patrol wagon, the card would clarify that you automatically evade all creatures along your route. Since the card does not say this, if you are playing it that you choose a route, you thus have to evade every monster in your path.

 

It doesn't work like that. You move from one location to one other location.

 

 

 

 

As has been already said, if you want to trade on the way, use your normal movement, or use the patrol wagon and move to the location occupied by the person you wish to trade with. I believe you cannot move to one location, trade with someone, then move to another location while using the wagon.



#15 ColtsFan76

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 01:23 AM

A Patrol Wagon is a "teleporter."  You move from Point A to Point B.  You can move to any Point B that you want on any board in the cities (i.e. not the OW) with the exception of the Kingsport Head on teh Kingsport board.  In this case, you can only "teleport" as far as the Harboside Streets area and then move normally on subsequent turns.

Using this piece of equipment is optional.  If you do use it, that is your entire Movement.  There is NO stopping along the "route" (as there is no route, you just physically move from Point A to B).  There is NO Movement points allocated for the reading of Tomes.  There is NO trading except at Point A and/or Point B.

This has been clarified in the past.

 In regards to the "teleportation" and routes, from the FAQ in DH:

Q:When using the Patrol Wagon, do you need to find a route to your chosen destination that is free of monsters, or do you simply relocate your investigator to the chosen location?

A:You simply relocate your investigator to the chosen location, ignoring monsters that would be passed through. However, if you begin or end your movement in a space with monsters, they must still be evaded as usual.

 From the FAQ in KH:

Q: When an investigator uses the Patrol Wagon, must he find a route to his destination that is free of monsters, or is he simply relocated there?

A: Such an investigator is simply relocated, ignoring monsters along whatever figurative “route” is taken. Investigators who begin or end their movement on spaces where there are monsters must evade them as usual, however.


#16 MrsGamura

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 07:57 AM

Mike said:

 

Well, what if I choose a route that leads through all locations? Will you tell me I must choose between shortest or longest way? Because if you do, you are constructing a house rule again, as nothing on the card even remotely implies such a thing.

 

 

How do you get from A to B if there is no route? Just teleport? So where going to have a teleporting 1920s Patrol Wagons just so investigators cannot trade Food?

Thematically I could see not being able to trade in route using the Patrol Wagon because it’s moving and in order to trade you have to stop but Teleporting? Sure they have Flux Stablizer (or what ever Kate’s thing is called) but she a Scientist.

 



#17 thorgrim

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 10:12 AM

I believe Coltsfan means the game mechanic of the item is a teleporter, not that the police have amazing technology for 1926 to immediately appear where they want.

 

Using the patrol wagon you have the sirens/lights on full and are using back streets/making illegal turns/using your officialness to claim right of way and speed to get to your destination.



#18 jhaelen

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Posted 07 December 2008 - 10:40 PM

Arborshate said:

However, would the Deputy (or whoever had the wagon at the time) be able to start at point A, go to point B, trade with an investigator there, and then go to point C?
Isn't that exactly the question that was asked in the other thread?

I don't see how it would be possible when using the Patrol Wagon instead of standard movement to visit more than one location. You can only trade with any investigators at your target location; intermediate stops are not possible.



#19 ColtsFan76

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Posted 08 December 2008 - 12:21 PM

MrsGamura said:

Mike said:

 

Well, what if I choose a route that leads through all locations? Will you tell me I must choose between shortest or longest way? Because if you do, you are constructing a house rule again, as nothing on the card even remotely implies such a thing.

 

 

How do you get from A to B if there is no route? Just teleport? So where going to have a teleporting 1920s Patrol Wagons just so investigators cannot trade Food?

Thematically I could see not being able to trade in route using the Patrol Wagon because it’s moving and in order to trade you have to stop but Teleporting? Sure they have Flux Stablizer (or what ever Kate’s thing is called) but she a Scientist.

 

"Teleporting" is just a means to describe the action.  The theme is that you are moving too fast to stop and chit chat. 

You move from Point A to B.  If you want to trace a route, go for it.  But it has no bearing on the game.  You don't encounter monsters, you don't trade with others.  You just keep moving.






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