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Rethinking Achievement Points


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#1 Morph

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 12:09 AM

I like what RT has done with Endeavours, but I'm less keen on Achievement Points. Using them to determine when an endeavour has been completed seems a litle too abstract for me. I think achieveing the endeavour should come about by... well actually achieving the endeavour through game actions, not just reaching a certain amount of points.

With plenty of rules referring to the gaining of achievement points (through talents, ship modifications etc.) I don't really want to abandon them all together, so maybe I could use them in a different way. My thought was, rather than APs going towards completing an endeavour they go towards an increase in profit factor. In effect APs now show how far a crew has gone beyond their endeavour.

So to do this.... individual objectives are no longer worth APs, However bonus APs can be awarded by the GM if PCs achieved an objective particulkarly well. APs are still awarded for overcoming challenges based on the difficulty of the challenge (as explained on page 278, using table 9-40). In addition APs are awarded for ship components, talents etc. The APs awarded for these are given on succesful completion of the objective, rather than when working towards the objective.

e.g. A Main Cargo Hold normally gives 125 APs towards completing a trade objective. Under this system it gives 125 APs upon completing a trade objective (in this case probably through delivering cargo).

When 1000 APs have been reached the Rogue Trader may make a Commerce roll. If the test is failed they must wait again until 2000 APs have been reached and make a Commerce roll at +10%, then if that is failed wait until 3000 for a Commerce test at +20% and so on. Whenever one of these tests is passed the Rogue Trader has converted all their increased business into profit. The Profit Factor is increased by 1, but the current AP level is reduced back to 0.

Any thought on this? Good idea, or am I giving the initial idea of APs a hard time?



#2 Edith The Hutt

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 07:36 AM

I share your concerns and would much rather APs be a measure of how well the endeavour has gone rather than whether than how much more needs to be done. My own rules fit my campaign a bit better than they might fit better but I intend to run with:

500 Achievement Points = a +1 increase to your profit factor

And each task or problem is scaled by GM fiat using the RAW as a guide.

I'll also allow misfortunes to occur and thus an endeavour to prevent a loss of PF would be represented by a flat loss of profit (or an inevitable loss about to occur) which the endeavour would be making up for.

Obviously for missions not focused on making money this would work much less well.



#3 dragonmarkeddm

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 08:31 AM

Achievment points are more of a way to track when certain milestones have been achieved. In addition they allow the PC's to influence how much profit they make from an endeavour by equipment and side quest that can lead to greater profits. No matter how many side quest are taken or what equipment is possessed, the individual side quest and equipment boons should never be able to complete the endeavour on their own. There are certain steps that are mandatory requirments (the big achievment point award objectives that are most likely solved by in game mechanics and roleplaying unless the endevour is running in the background) that are used to move an endeavour in a logical directions as directed by the GM. All the Achievement points do is show how much longer until the end, but unless the basics as set by the GM aren't meet, the endevour will never be completed, or the end results will at least be greatly different than originally planned.

In that respect, I think the achievement points system works pretty good. But I think your system can work as well.

 



#4 Dalnor Surloc

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 12:20 PM

I think that you need a to keep an eye on the Endeavour in terms of both the Plot and Achievement Points.  You shouldn't allow the PCs to complete an Endeavour until they have wrapped it up in terms of the plot.  The point of getting a lot achievement points is to boost your profit factor not to short cut the adventure.  Conversely achievement points are a good milestone determining if the PCs have done enough to wrap up an Endeavour.  After all the PCs may have decided to try different things than I'd expected.  I awarded them points for that.  Maybe if they have enough points, and if plot wise it makes sense they can be done.



#5 Morph

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 10:08 PM

Dalnor Surloc said:

I think that you need a to keep an eye on the Endeavour in terms of both the Plot and Achievement Points.  You shouldn't allow the PCs to complete an Endeavour until they have wrapped it up in terms of the plot.  The point of getting a lot achievement points is to boost your profit factor not to short cut the adventure.  Conversely achievement points are a good milestone determining if the PCs have done enough to wrap up an Endeavour.  After all the PCs may have decided to try different things than I'd expected.  I awarded them points for that.  Maybe if they have enough points, and if plot wise it makes sense they can be done.

 

OK, on a re-read I'd completely missed the fact that every 100 APs over an Endeavour's objective they gain a PF. That nakes a bit more sense now, and I might rethink how I handle them.



#6 0ddb411

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 12:10 PM

We use Achievement points as effectively a 'group xp' which only really affects profit factor.  You don't complete Endeavours by gaining Achievement points, it's vice versa.  You can never 'get enough achievement points to complete this endeavour'.






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