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Individual profit factor


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#1 mrobfire

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 05:47 PM

I'm confused. Each character sheet has a place to record the characters profit factor. Are characters other than the rogue trader supposed to earn profit independently? Are they supposed to get a share of the PF from endeavours and then everyone pools their PF to get the dynasty's PF? This is bugging me since I was going to play a character motivated by making his fortune but I'm not sure how he's supposed to go about making money for himself, not just the dynasty.



#2 MILLANDSON

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 01:29 AM

The Profit Factor is the same for all the characters, it's a group thing, not just for the RT.


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#3 mrobfire

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 07:37 AM

I understand that on the level of playing the game the profit factor is shared between all of the players. However, it seems like in the actual setting the Profit Factor ultimately "belongs" to the rogue trader. The other characters are advisors that could, in theory, be fired and left with nothing. I'm not sure then how to roleplay a character who wants to be independently wealthy and sees working for the rogue trader as a good stepping stone towards achieving that goal.



#4 Cynr

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 08:54 AM

mrobfire said:

I understand that on the level of playing the game the profit factor is shared between all of the players. However, it seems like in the actual setting the Profit Factor ultimately "belongs" to the rogue trader. The other characters are advisors that could, in theory, be fired and left with nothing. I'm not sure then how to roleplay a character who wants to be independently wealthy and sees working for the rogue trader as a good stepping stone towards achieving that goal.

During GenCon 2009, I got to meet Ross and ask pretty much the questions along this line. My thought was "I am the Rogue Trader. I am the Captain and you are now in the airlock to take a space walk sans suit!"

Ross explained that the other characters not only represent advisors and business partners for the Rogue Trader, but they are also the leaders and figure heads of their respective areas of expertise or are rare specialists. You don't like your Astropath, fine! Submit form XYZ and wait a number of years until another licensed one is sent to you. Your Navigator is a pain; tough, your family has a hereditary agreement to only use House Whatever navigators and it will be a few years until the next one is qualified. Or.... You can't stand your Missionary/Explorator/Void-Master, but if you fire them (or fire at them!) then the Faithful will mutany/the tech-priests all stop working/your crew revolt and take the ship from you. Hmmm.... fire the Seneschal and lose the guy who does the books for your business and makes all the contacts for you??  The Arch-Militant a bit to tough and scary.... just think of the problems if your Number One leaves with your secrets to be someone's Number One.

Basically, no group ever works perfectly together, but each of the RT characters has literally a lifetime invested and losing them changes the entire dynamic or even the ability for the RT ship to function properly.  Not to mention, losing one affects things like Profit, etc.

-Cynr



#5 mrobfire

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 09:14 AM

Ok, that makes a lot of sense. The RT can't actually get rid of one of the characters because it would destabilize his dynasty. At the same time the characters can't leave because they're dependent on the RT's wealth (Unless they're noble born or some such and have +1 profit factor but that's still pretty insignificant in comparison).

 

Hmm... seems like it's time for some subtle intra party backstabbing. This is going to be so much fun.



#6 MDMann

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 11:23 PM

Your RT might not (sensibly) stab your Missionary, but the Explorator might...



#7 Gregorius21778

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 02:53 AM

In addition to the things already mentioned:

Why we in our "captial market" based world a pretty much used to simply fire people we do not need any longer, the world of an RT (or perhaps the 40K as whole) is pretty much more based on "fealty". If you do "fire" one of your scion (your trusted men), it reflects bad on you. The ratings, that is one thing. But those oath-sworn to you, that is something different. They are not only under your command, you have to care and provide for them as well. Otherwise, you will lose status. Either for being such a thankless and unloyal leader or for the fact that in firing you admitted that  youwere hiring untrustyworth or incompetent men. Or even more worse, that you are yourself to incompetent to know whom you put trust in. So, getting rid of one of your "officers" should be something you do not do lightly... unless, you are lawless pirate scum anyway... but this case, this might happen to you any time as well...



#8 Dalnor Surloc

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 08:02 AM

I explained it to my PCs this way:

While it may seem that the Rogue Trader himself is the captain and master of his ship it's not entirely true.  In order to crew a vessel a Rogue Trader must make certain compromises...

Explorator- The leader of the tech priest contingent.  He/she is charged with not only the care of the machines on board, but their proper use.  In return for it's services the cult requires a voice in the ship's council, and a tithe of profits or 1st choice of any technology found.

Navigator-  The Navigator houses know fully well they hold the key to interstellar travel.  As such they charge dearly for their services.  In general 5% of all profits, and a seat on the ship's council.  Of course many Navigators often can't be bothered with the mundane day to day running of the ship.

Astropath-  The Adeptus Astra Telepathica holds the key to interstellar travel.  Crossing them cuts off a Rogue Trader from communication with the rest of the galaxy in and out of port. Given their powers, knowledge, influence it is rare the highest ranking Astropath is not given a seat on the ship's council.  Of course many often can't be bothered with the mundane day to day running of the ship.

Missionary-  Given the influence, power, and wealth of the Ecclesiarchy.  It is fairly common to see a Missionary on the ship's council as they are often instrumental in providing crew, funding, and cutting through red tape.  A scorned Cleric can stir up trouble and even mutiny amount the crew.

Senescal-  The ship's Seneschal is always on the ship's council if not always a voting member.  It is not uncommon for the Seneschal to be chosen by investors.  As a result some Seneschals have a vote and/or veto.

Void Master-  A Void-Master is a proven master of his craft and highly sought after.  It's rare they are not included in ship's council, and may or may not have a vote.  Often this is due to the relationship the Void-Master has with the ships crew.  While the majority of a ship's crews are unskilled.  Even the most automated imperial ship depends on the officers, and other skilled crew.  It's not uncommon for a Void-Master to bring this skilled crew with him, and for them to hold loyalty to him.  In some ships a void master represents the crew's interest and may have no vote, but posses veto power.

Arch-Militant- Every captain fears mutiny, and the Arch-Militant is responsible for the safety and security of the ship.  As a result they are always on the ship's council, and may have a vote.  It is common for the core of a ship's security to come with a Arch-Militant.  Often these mean and women were formerly under the command of the Arch-Militant and are very loyal to him.  It's not uncommon for an Arch-Militant who comes with a mercenary company, guard troop, or the like to exercise a veto over their use.


Note it's my intent that all of the PCs have voting rights on the ship's council.  This means unless you are an Astropath, or Navigator you need a back story that includes a reason why you have voting right similar to stated above.  If you fail to bring a back story you will not have any voting rights on the ship council.

Common Ships Council.
Rogue Trader V2,VV
Navigator V1,VV*1
Explorator V?, VV*2
Astropath V?
Arch-Militant V?
Senescal V?
Void Master V?
Missionary V?

V1- One vote
V2- Two votes
VV- Veto
VV*- Limited veto
V?-One or 0 votes

*1 Navigators generally have veto over any warp travel related .
*2 Explorators generally have veto over modifications of the ship.



#9 HappyDaze

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 01:06 PM

In an usual turn of events, it's also possible for a Rogue Trader to be a mere figurehead that offers nothing beyond his warrant to give the vessel soem official status.  The cohort of 'advisors' are really the ones running the show.


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#10 Halcyon

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 10:22 PM

As for your character seeking personal wealth you could look to the sidebar on page 34. "A typical Rogue Trader character who joins a Dark Heresy campaign should have an income of at least 1,000 Thrones per month."  So even if you get fired so left on a world while the RT seeks a new Void Master it is easy to assume your character would have amassed a good fortune during there travels. 



#11 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 04:16 AM

mrobfire said:

I understand that on the level of playing the game the profit factor is shared between all of the players. However, it seems like in the actual setting the Profit Factor ultimately "belongs" to the rogue trader. The other characters are advisors that could, in theory, be fired and left with nothing. I'm not sure then how to roleplay a character who wants to be independently wealthy and sees working for the rogue trader as a good stepping stone towards achieving that goal.

It doesn't really work that way. You could say that a Rogue Trader dynasty is like a corporation, and the Rogue Trader is the acting president of that corporation. However, the profit factor isn't just sheer monetary wealth, it is a mix of actual thrones and treasures, combined with favors, debts, contacts and other less tangible, but still useful resources. Many of these resources are supplied by the group rather than the Rogue Trader (for instance, the Rogue Trader will hardly bother keeping track of the vast network of contacts, favors and debts tied to his or her dynasty, since that would be the business of the Seneschal).

So you could say that the other PC's are a sort of executive investors in the "corporation". The Rogue Trader holds the Warrant of Trade, and so has the final say in any undertaking that his or her dynasty does, but that hardly gives the Rogue Trader any sort of power to blatantly abuse his elite inner cadre of advisors and "investors" that the other PC's make up like they were lowly ship ratings.

Now I haven't seen anything in the rules about this yet, but if I was the acting GM I would say that in the case of a PC wanting to leave the dynasty, then the dynasty would have it's profit factor reduced by a fraction of what the total group make up. So if the group consists of four player characters then one fourth of the current profit factor would be lost because it represents the PF that the lost member provided the group with.

Seems only fair since many aspects of the Origin Path actually contribute or penalize the groups profit factor if chosen, even if the player character is just an Arch-Militant or an Astropath. This clearly shows that the Rogue Trader isn't the one with absolute power over the profit factor in the group, since all PF is achieved through a group effort, the group have equal claim in the current PF.

That being said, some greedy Rogue Traders might try to abuse their inner cadre, and even wrestle themselves to a larger portion of the profit. But that Rogue Trader wouldn't be very longlived. Mutiny can get quite ugly for the captain if you get my drift.






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