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How to handle the crappy M:TG comparisons to W:I....


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#1 Wytefang

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 11:34 AM

Okay, we've probably all ran into this either online or in person.  You know the type (heck, maybe you ARE the type, LOL): Know-it-All Magic:The Gathering gamer who can't stomach the mere possibility that another new card-game is in town (Warhammer:Invasion) and is stealing (gasp!) a good chunk of attention away from his or her precious Magic.

What's sad is that there's plenty of room for a huge variety of card games out here.  There's no need for any Magic fan to consider Warhammer: Invasion as a threat - they are both different games that fill a different niche.  Though these former (or current) Magic players will try to convince you that Warhammer:Invasion is nothing more than just Magic with different clothes on.  (Something we can all agree isn't the case. Similarities abound but there are far more differences than similarities.)

 

My suggestions for dealing with this particularly annoying type of gamer:

1. Point out the specific differences between the games rather than the shallow similarities

2. Showcase the factors that make an LCG far less expensive than a CCG

3. Explain that their beloved Magic isn't going anywhere any more than the newer Warhammer:Invasion isn't going away any time soon, either 

4. You could always just not bother even trying to go through the hassle of dealing with this particularly annoying brand of gaming elitism

5. If a disparaging know-it-all Magic fanboy comes around to denigrate W:I, just toss out some Black Lotus color copies and watch them scurry!  It's fun!  ;)

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Unfortunately the reality is that there will always be a subset of gamers for any hugely popular game that feel that only their game and their game alone can occupy its niche in its own genre.  You're probably not going to convince these gamers otherwise - they're a lot like the police horse in a downtown area with blinders on - they're probably never going to be able to see past their personal "blinders" to realize how awesome, cool, and unique this NEW card game is. 

 

 


"SHOW ME WHAT PASSES FOR FURY AMONGST YOUR MISBEGOTTEN KIND!"

 

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#2 LordMalinari

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 11:55 AM

Wytefang said:

 

My suggestions for dealing with this particularly annoying type of gamer:

1. Point out the specific differences between the games rather than the shallow similarities

2. Showcase the factors that make an LCG far less expensive than a CCG

3. Explain that their beloved Magic isn't going anywhere any more than the newer Warhammer:Invasion isn't going away any time soon, either 

4. You could always just not bother even trying to go through the hassle of dealing with this particularly annoying brand of gaming elitism

5. If a disparaging know-it-all Magic fanboy comes around to denigrate W:I, just toss out some Black Lotus color copies and watch them scurry!  It's fun!  ;)

 

 

Well said! And here's what I'd personally add to those great points:

1. Specifically mention the Capital mechanics and the three zones: their individual HP and the nuances of the distribution of power between them. Oh, and the fact there's NO mana screw and even cards you can't play at a certain time can be used as Developments.

2. In the UK, a playset of the Core Set will set you back less than the cost of a single box of the newest MTG expansion.

3. Nothing more to add.

4. But for every ten rejections you get, if even a single MTG fanatic converts to this delcious new LCG you end up with a new opponent. Do this eighty times, and you have yourself a league :D Of course, I highly doubt I'll be able to find eighty of these players, but you never know ;)

5. Haha, just pretend to have pulled one of them out of a pack of Zendikar, apparently it's already happened because of their "inserting hidden treasures" into Zendikar packs" gimmick :P



#3 dormouse

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Posted 14 October 2009 - 07:36 PM

I actually sit back with my former pro-tour M:TG roomate and LCG convert and laugh. Online I simply point out the differences while trying not to denigrate the important role Magic played in TCG's.


"words are like arrows, once loosened you cannot call them back"


#4 Wytefang

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 05:48 AM

Yeah, I get caught up in trying too hard to put Magic down in the more mundane slot that I have personally reserved for it - I've always thought it way too over-hyped but the other issue I've had with that game is that (in my experience - key phrase here) the die-hard MTG fans are almost always elitist jerkwads...  I can't say I've had too many positive experiences with Magic fanboys.  Sigh.


"SHOW ME WHAT PASSES FOR FURY AMONGST YOUR MISBEGOTTEN KIND!"

 

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#5 vermillian

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 06:08 AM

Any person that plays, extensively, any ONE game over others, and clamours and yells "this game is better than your game!" to the world. THAT is the elitist.

Its ok to like a game. It is just incredibly frustratingly curious how SO many people play JUST ONE GAME...

Death to the "one game player" mentality. Play moar games naoh!



#6 Duke_of_the_Blood_Keep

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 11:30 AM

 Personally I like the fact that Magic players don't like this game cause I don't enjoy M:TG. Can wait to get my copy of this, it should arrive tomorrow, maybe Saturday, hopefully. The comparisons to M:TG are annoying because for people like me they put you off W:I because what's the point if its just, as they say, a Magic-clone with a Warhammer body. I always preferred WOTC's other card game any way, the Star Wars TCG :) Anyways, glad i read all of the FFG material and the PDF rulebook and came to my own conclusions and bought the game. 



#7 jogo

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 03:20 AM

vermillian said:

Its ok to like a game. It is just incredibly frustratingly curious how SO many people play JUST ONE GAME...

Death to the "one game player" mentality. Play moar games naoh!

Yeah. I have often to talk to people, asked about boardgames, just saying "Settlers", what is extremly annoying.



#8 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 10:21 PM

I just bring up that WoW Card Game is what Magic has been trying to be for YEARS....then they go storm off into a corner or out the store to smoke. Problem solved and you get to laugh at a grown man/nerd rage. The WoW Card game sells beter than magic at my store currently. 

But I have moved on to LCGs after call of Cthulhu. I like the simple mechanics yet hard to master tactics and strategy for the Warhammer LCG. Eric Lang is the master of choice he obviously studied the fan favorite Settlers of Catan. And even if not then he is living proof the great minds think alike.



#9 jogo

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 02:56 AM

I dont get what you want to say with the two last sentences.



#10 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 17 October 2009 - 06:31 PM

Me?

I am saying Settlers is a great game for the same reason that Invasion is. They both are simple mechanics but require many tough choices to win. I am saying Mr. Lang has learned that you don't need complex games with tons of special rules to make a game tactical. 



#11 Ruvion

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 10:43 PM

darkkami said:

 

....you don't need complex games with tons of special rules to make a game tactical. 

 

 

That is very true...you don't need to go further than the fan favourite "Go" to see how complexity does not necessarily equate to tactical brilliance for a game.



#12 Killer Power

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Posted 18 October 2009 - 11:13 PM

Poor Wytefang... BGG is hard to chew these days, isn't it? ;o)

I've read many of your tries to convince those M:TG players, that WH:I isn't just a M:TG clone. Thumbs up for this endurance!

 



#13 dormouse

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 08:41 AM

If you only have ever played one CCG game you will compare every other CCG game to it. They lack the proper references to be able to see it as a unique game. It does have some strong similarities to Magic... they are just completely dwarfed by the numerous differences.

They both have a fantasy theme // One is well thought out and comprised of a coherent mythos and the other is a hodgpodge universe with only slimmest of threads holding the pieces together.

They both involve inflicting unblocked damage to win the game // One is a set amount of damage in total while the other is a set number of regions with a number of damage that each player has direct control over.

They both involve personalities that operate as your main method of attacking and defending // every other part of this is different from a mechnical and gameplay perspective. One their is no restriction to using a personality the turn it comes into play, if it attacks or defends during one combat there is nothing to prevent it from doing so during the next, damage is persistent, the characters themselves control not just your ability to attack or defend but your ability to gather  resources and draw cards.


"words are like arrows, once loosened you cannot call them back"


#14 Wytefang

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 03:17 PM

Killer Power said:

Poor Wytefang... BGG is hard to chew these days, isn't it? ;o)

I've read many of your tries to convince those M:TG players, that WH:I isn't just a M:TG clone. Thumbs up for this endurance!


Thanks for the support - they don't bother me all that much.  They're just annoyingly arrogant (as they always seem to be) about their favorite game.  ::: shrugs ::::  I see it for what it is and I'm okay with it.

 

 


"SHOW ME WHAT PASSES FOR FURY AMONGST YOUR MISBEGOTTEN KIND!"

 

W40K: Conquest LCG Facebook Page - https://www.facebook...35904116588456/

 


#15 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 05:54 PM

 Just point out that it took them how long to come up with a quest system, allies system, and trap system. Then point out the WoW TCG was first to introduce landfall. WH Invasion was first to introduce the quests and allies, and Yugioh was first to introduce traps. Then ask who is coat tailing who now? LOL Magic actually had to redo how they ran the game because of the pressure from other games. 

As Wizards said "Magic needed a new look" and M10 was finally IN MY OPINION what Magic should have been all these years. The Zennedar (sp) set has amazing mechanics...but the ART oh the ART... MY EYES THEY BLEED. 



#16 dormouse

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Posted 20 October 2009 - 07:57 PM

lol. I've heard of some of the "new" mechanics (well since I quit last millennium) and it sounds like a game I'd be interested in picking up, except for FFG's LCG games. I just can't justify spending that kind of money on a game when I have strategically rich, but investment light alternatives available to me.


"words are like arrows, once loosened you cannot call them back"


#17 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 21 October 2009 - 02:59 PM

Just to be clear. I didnt buy the newest Magic set cause the art sucked. lol. That is pretty bad when your art turns people away after fixing Magic to how it should have always been. 



#18 Margalus

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 02:36 AM

Nice thread, i'm thinkin' about this a lot those days.

LordMalinari said:

2. Showcase the factors that make an LCG far less expensive than a CCG

A LOTTA less! Here players spends like 15/20 euros on each draft(and they play like two per week at our LGS). Whit that money you can buy the Core set with the Battle Pack, adding just some euros.

I don't play game cards since that much. I started with Pokem when i was a kid, Yu-Gi-Oh later on(hey i was a kid >.< !! ) and Magic since like 2-3 months. I like the game A LOT but i just hate that guys from the shop. They play ONLY Magic, some of them hates Warhammer's Lore(wtf how can you hate Warhammer's universe o.O ?? Ok if you don't like it..but "HATE" it's too much.. ) and they don't even play that good. Ok there's some uber players but no-one plays in real tournaments with real pros..so i guess they're still playing for fun..so why don't try War?

That's because they already are Magic addicts and, as you say, they can't see past their blinders. This happens also in music..i'm a metalhead but listen to ALL kind of music..and i can't absolutely stand people that listens to a genre or even GROUP only.

Well, about the thread..if you ask me how to handle a comparison between the two games with open minded people i think you could just make 'em try the game and they'll like it a lot.

If you manage to talk with the kinda guys i described..well, just give up. Theire stupid and can't be considered "gamers", just fanboys. Open minded people likes new games, things and such while close-minded people are just..close-minded!



#19 Darthvegeta800

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Posted 25 October 2009 - 12:40 AM

Margalus said:

Nice thread, i'm thinkin' about this a lot those days.

LordMalinari said:

 

2. Showcase the factors that make an LCG far less expensive than a CCG

 

 

A LOTTA less! Here players spends like 15/20 euros on each draft(and they play like two per week at our LGS). Whit that money you can buy the Core set with the Battle Pack, adding just some euros.

I don't play game cards since that much. I started with Pokem when i was a kid, Yu-Gi-Oh later on(hey i was a kid >.< !! ) and Magic since like 2-3 months. I like the game A LOT but i just hate that guys from the shop. They play ONLY Magic, some of them hates Warhammer's Lore(wtf how can you hate Warhammer's universe o.O ?? Ok if you don't like it..but "HATE" it's too much.. ) and they don't even play that good. Ok there's some uber players but no-one plays in real tournaments with real pros..so i guess they're still playing for fun..so why don't try War?

That's because they already are Magic addicts and, as you say, they can't see past their blinders. This happens also in music..i'm a metalhead but listen to ALL kind of music..and i can't absolutely stand people that listens to a genre or even GROUP only.

Well, about the thread..if you ask me how to handle a comparison between the two games with open minded people i think you could just make 'em try the game and they'll like it a lot.

If you manage to talk with the kinda guys i described..well, just give up. Theire stupid and can't be considered "gamers", just fanboys. Open minded people likes new games, things and such while close-minded people are just..close-minded!

 

Yugioh is actually a bit underestimated. Hardly to be ashamed of. I played it too in the past and it is a combo-rich environment.
A shame it seriously lacks lore and needs some visual improvements.
Regardless I quit for the same reason I quit L5R (in my eyes the or at least one of the best ccgs out there) not that long ago. Money.
LCG's are just far cheaper.
 






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