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"Gothic" monsters


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#1 The Alchemist

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 02:09 AM

Yup. Yet another thread i managed to scavenge from the old forum that i created a few months ago(As "Xenpheart") and to which nobody replied beacuse the forum was, by then, dead and in a state of advanced decomposition.

Vampires. Zombies. Werewolves. Ghosts.
All those classic World of Darkness monsters that are for some unspeakble reason called "Gothic".
Some of tham could fit in very well into the frightning fairytale world of the Grimmlands.(When a child is bitten by a werewolf, does he become a cub? Worth checking...)

Did anyone ever try to state those beasties into Grimm therms? Fluffily? Mechanically?

I would love an answear.

Leonard.


#2 Bad Dog

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 05:45 PM

You are right, these characters do fit in well with the Grimm world.  The Tim Burton film "The Corpse Bride" was based on a folktale, and featured animated corpses.  The d20 version of the Grimm RPG also had a vampiric Little Red Riding Hood.  Discussion of translating this, and other characters that did not appear in the newer version of the game, can be found in this thread: http://new.fantasyfl...d=3&efidt=10433

As for providing stats for these characters, I think that, like in the White Wolf games that you site, I would tend to stat them like individuals rather than use generic stats for vampires, werewolves, etc.  I don't think that they would be quite as numerous as, say, Dwarfs or Giants, even in the Grimm world.

As for werewolves, the Normal kid Unusual Heritage of "Moonstruck" covers that quite nicely.  Keep in mind that the concept of a wolf-man (as seen in most horror movies) is a fairly modern concept.  The medievel werewolf was a wolf that could change into a man; or less commonly, a man that could change into a wolf.



#3 The Alchemist

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 12:07 AM

A wise reply, Bad Dog. Thank you very much.

Yet, we must never lose sight of the first and foremost rule of Grimm: historical and literary accuracy will alwayes come second to fun and coolness. I am well read of many old monster tales, and indeed, their depiction in these old lores is very much completly differant from the more well known holywood characters of today. Yey, i think today's werewolves and vampires and zombies and poltergeists are actually much cooler then their original counterparts, and fit much better as characters in a story. Especially if we are already going twisted fairy tales. (I little red is a vampire, then the wolf chasing it might actually be some sort of lycanthropic monster hunter... Van Helsing was a terrible film storywise but it had it's shiny moments)



#4 Antigoth

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 06:51 PM

Regarding Zombies - weren't they really first brought into our culture via the concept of "Vodoo Zombies" which was then expanded upon in Night of the Living Dead?

 



#5 The Alchemist

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 12:05 AM

Yes... Yes they were. But than again: Romero esque zombies are much more fun then the old voodoo demons.



#6 lynx_child

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 09:56 AM

 Personally, I customized my campaign a bit by changing some fairy tales around and adding some other stories.  In my campaign, Peter Pan and the Lost Boys were vampires - that was why they were immortal.  Hook and the pirates were the parents of the Lost Boys (when they became vampires, they had kidnapped their parents and had been torturing them in their cave to get revenge on them for, I don't know, not letting them blow bubbles in their chocolate milk).  When the parents escaped, they couldn't get back to the Real World so they became pirates and went to war with Pan and the Lost Boys.

I also had Red Riding Hood be a werewolf.  The wolf she was afraid of was herself.

There are lots of ways to incorporate them without changing the setting though, I'm sure.



#7 Luddite

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Posted 09 December 2008 - 11:57 AM

Antigoth said:

Regarding Zombies - weren't they really first brought into our culture via the concept of "Vodoo Zombies" which was then expanded upon in Night of the Living Dead?

 

No.

Indeed the word zombie comes from Haitian / West Indian culture through the vodou spiritualist beliefs (themselves derived from African myths and beliefs)..

However, rotting undead corpses returning to haunt and plague the living also have a long history in European traditions.

There were called revenants

As far as i understand the stories about them are first documented by William of Newburgh (writing around 1180-1190AD if i recall) and were especially prevalent in Britain.

Revenants are typically wrongdoers in their lifetime, often described as wicked or vain, or later as Christian unbelievers, who return to plague and harass their former neighbours.  Often the revenants are associated with the spreading of disease among the living.  Interestingly, this myth-story may well be something that goes back to pre-Conquest Anglo-Saxon society, or even back to pre-Roman Iron Age tribal cultures.



#8 thehuntercat

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 11:53 AM

True, and Romero got his idea's from Matheson's novel "I Am Legend".



#9 Luddite

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Posted 11 December 2008 - 01:10 AM

thehuntercat said:

True, and Romero got his idea's from Matheson's novel "I Am Legend".

Well, that's true.  Romero cited Metheson's masterwork as a key influence, although mainly for its 'global apocalypse' themes.

I Am Legend (1954), of course has nothing to do with zombies (the 'monsters' are vampires), although probably through Romero's work it is also associated with inspiring the zombie genre.

I Am Legend is a book that anyone interested in fantasy / sci-fi should read (alongside books like 1984, Brave New World, any of the HG Wells / Jules Verne books etc...)

Its been adapted to film three times (Last Man on Earth (1964), The Omega Man (1971), I Am Legend (2007) - personally i also see a strong influence in Invasion of the Body Snatchers 1956)) but none of them are a patch on the book. 

Its not a particularly well written book but its an amazing story with a twist in the tail that's simply a joy!

 






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