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RE: Newbie question


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#1 dJoe90

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 12:54 AM

Hi everyone.  I purchased Arkham horror yesterday with all the expansions. I am going to have a game with my mate tommorrow but i have a question.

When you have to move your character do you have to move the full movement or are you allowed to end your movement at any time. i.e if i had a movement of 4 would I be able to move only 2 spaces and choose to end my movement there.

Also regarding locations are you allowed to stay at the same location without moving so when it is your turn you announce im not moving and stay at the same location to get cards etc

Thankyou

Cheers

Joe

 



#2 thorgrim

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 01:12 AM

You can spend as much or as little of your movement as you wish, so essentially staying on the same space is the same as spending zero movement.

 

The base game rulebook states that you "may" spend one movement point to move the Investigator from one board area to another, so you can choose not to spend your movement.



#3 Duckling

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 05:14 AM

thorgrim said:

You can spend as much or as little of your movement as you wish, so essentially staying on the same space is the same as spending zero movement.

 

The base game rulebook states that you "may" spend one movement point to move the Investigator from one board area to another, so you can choose not to spend your movement.

 

That's right. Only exceptions are the other worlds, where you have to keep moving unless you're delayed.

Also if you fight against a monster you have to end your movement there and can't continue even if you had movement points left.



#4 jhaelen

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Posted 02 December 2008 - 09:14 PM

Duckling said:

That's right. Only exceptions are the other worlds, where you have to keep moving unless you're delayed.
I think it's also worth mentioning that your movement points are effectively zero if you are in one of the Other Worlds at the start of your movement phase.

This is important to keep in mind because it means you cannot use books, etc.



#5 Arborshate

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 09:30 AM

I noticed that the movement point system ended up being the simplest solution.  It just steps through like this: 

If your movement phase starts in an Other World, then you recieve no movement points.  Otherwise, you recieve movement points equal to your current speed (including anything that modifies that, such as the Speed skill), plus any modifiers specific to movement points (Ruby of R'lyeh for +3, Inner Beast (King in Yellow expansion) for +1, some environments subtract a movement point).  Then, you can spend your movement points on moving or on an item (mostly Tomes, but a few others, like Alien Statue), with the exception that, if you ever have combat (by failing an Evade check or choosing not to Evade), your remaining movement points are reduced to 0 and you must stop there. 

However, I've sometimes puzzled over the Motorcycle and the Map of Arkham.  So, I'll pose two relavent questions: 

1.  Since one must exhaust them to get their movement points, could one use them to read a Tome (etc.) after finishing combats in an area?  

2.  Since one must exhaust them in order to get their movement points, could one use them after leaving the second area of an Other World to read a Tome (etc.) (or, dare I say, to move)?  

I generally play by the spirit of the rules and say that one cannot gain movement points after combat or starting in an Other World (or that one has, say, -64 movement points (just some large negative to prevent recovering above 0)).  However, I haven't seen anything in the letter of the rules to say otherwise. 

So, let's just mull over that for a bit. 



#6 Dam

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 09:36 AM

Crazy FAQ:

Q: Characters in Other Worlds receive no movement points.

But if a character in an Other World has an item

that gives the character movement points, such as the

Motorcycle or the Ruby of R’lyeh, can the character use

an item that requires the character to spend movement

points, such as the Necronomicon?


A: No. You cannot receive movement points or use any

items requiring movement points while in an Other World.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#7 thorgrim

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 10:45 AM

Arborshate said:

1.  Since one must exhaust them to get their movement points, could one use them to read a Tome (etc.) after finishing combats in an area?  

 

"Once an investigator begins combat with a monster for any reason, his movement is over. Regardless of whether or not he wins the battle, the investigator loses the rest of his movement points and must remain where he is." AH rulebook pg. 8

 



#8 Arborshate

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 02:05 PM

thorgrim said:

Arborshate said:

 

1.  Since one must exhaust them to get their movement points, could one use them to read a Tome (etc.) after finishing combats in an area?  

 

"Once an investigator begins combat with a monster for any reason, his movement is over. Regardless of whether or not he wins the battle, the investigator loses the rest of his movement points and must remain where he is." AH rulebook pg. 8

Yes, that's where I see the ambiguity.  He loses the rest of his movement points, and he must remain where he is (exceptions:  going insane -> asylum, being knocked out -> hospital, losing to Nightgaunt -> Other World, losing to Dimensional Shambler -> LiTaS) (two distinct ideas), but this phrasing does not preclude him from gaining subsequent movement points (Motorcycle or Map of Arkham).  I play it by the spirit of the rules, and we generally use Tomes and such either before moving into combat (just exhaust all motorcycles and maps and then use any desired Tomes within budget) or after getting to the destination (assuming no combat), but I'm just saying that the rules can be read a certain way, and I figured that it was relavent, since we were discussing the movement system. 

 



#9 thorgrim

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 02:25 PM

Yeah I'll agree that there is a little ambiguity depending on how you read it. I've always been of the mind that it was just worded badly and what they meant to say was "lose all movement points for the rest of the phase", so even if you did then exhaust the map or motorcycle, the movement points are immediately lost, otherwise it gives a little too much power to a well set up investigator: move, fight, exhaust map, move, fight, exhaust motorcycle, move, have an encounter.



#10 Arborshate

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 04:55 PM

thorgrim said:

Yeah I'll agree that there is a little ambiguity depending on how you read it. I've always been of the mind that it was just worded badly and what they meant to say was "lose all movement points for the rest of the phase", so even if you did then exhaust the map or motorcycle, the movement points are immediately lost, otherwise it gives a little too much power to a well set up investigator: move, fight, exhaust map, move, fight, exhaust motorcycle, move, have an encounter.

Well, no, it wouldn't be quite that powerful, since the rules explicitly state the one may not move again after entering combat.  However, it could be read so that one could have combat, exhaust some stuff, and then read a Tome. 



#11 Ademon

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 09:41 AM

So is there an official ruling then?

Can an investigator move with normal movement points, fight something and kill it, (thereby losing all remaining move points due to combat), THEN after that exhaust his Map of Arkham or Motorcycle to get extra movement points and USE them to move somewhere else?

 



#12 thorgrim

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 11:01 AM

No you can't. As I had forgotten in my previous post, the rulebook does state that: "Regardless of whether or not he wins the battle, the investigator loses the rest of his movement points and must remain where he is."

 

The ambiguity is whether you can use the map or motorcycle after combat to use a tome or take a similar action that does not go against the "must remain where he is" bit.

 

In my opinion you can't do this, but others would argue that it can be done.



#13 jhaelen

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 11:16 AM

Ademon said:

 

So is there an official ruling then?

Can an investigator move with normal movement points, fight something and kill it, (thereby losing all remaining move points due to combat), THEN after that exhaust his Map of Arkham or Motorcycle to get extra movement points and USE them to move somewhere else?

 

 

 

I'm starting to get extremely annoyed by this forum software (instead of being just annoyed), since I now noticed that it actually eats my posts if something messed up the formatting...

So, let's try it again for the fourth(!) and last time:

Here's the relevant section from the rules:

Once an investigator begins combat with a monster for

 

any reason, his movement is over. Regardless of whether

or not he wins the battle, the investigator loses the rest

of his movement points and must remain where he is.



#14 jhaelen

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 11:23 AM

This is absolutely and incredibly stupid. You cannot even copy and paste text into a quote?!

It consistently destroys posts if you try this!

Could someone please fix this piece of s*** software?!

 

And if I just copy and paste the text without putting it into a quote section the formatting is f***** up so that I can no longer post anything after the copied text?!

 



#15 thorgrim

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 11:28 AM

Highlight the text you just pasted in and use the "remove format" button in the editor. It looks like an eraser. This should strip out all the crap that the editor doesn't like.



#16 jhaelen

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 11:30 AM

Once an investigator begins combat with a monster for

any reason, his movement is over. Regardless of whether

or not he wins the battle, the investigator loses the rest

of his movement points and must remain where he is.

The above is the relevant section from the rules. To elaborate:

Not only does the investigator lose the rest of his movement points, he also must remain where he is.

Additionally, I'd interpret the first sentence to mean that after combat has begun, his movement phase is over. I.e. he's no longer able to use any items or spells that can only be used in the movement phase, like the Map of Arkham and the Motorcycle.

So this means it is also not possible to use these items after combat to gain movement points and use them for anything other than movement, like reading books.



#17 jhaelen

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 11:36 AM

thorgrim said:

Highlight the text you just pasted in and use the "remove format" button in the editor. It looks like an eraser. This should strip out all the crap that the editor doesn't like.

It wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't kicked back to the Forum overview every time after I try to post something...

But, okay, let's try that:

I wanted to add, that the section about delayed investigators is formulated similarly:

Delayed investigators receive no movement points and

do not move during the Movement Phase.

 

I.e. again you receive no movement points and you do not move during Movement Phase. And again the first sentence could be interpreted to imply that you cannot gain movement points from items or spells either.

 



#18 Ademon

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 11:46 AM

I guess I can see it from the perspective that the rules on page 8 are a final say as to your movement being over and movement points being lost. There is another caveat however:

 

on the FAQ it states:

 

Q: When can a character perform actions during a phase?
For example, if a player with the ally Duke (“discard to
immediately restore your Sanity to its maximum”) draws
an encounter and has to roll a die and lose that much
Sanity, when can he discard Duke to restore Sanity: not at
all once the encounter card is drawn, before the roll, or
after the roll?
A: Actions can be performed at any time during their
listed phase as long as any given conditions are met
.

However,
once an encounter is drawn, it must be resolved
before any more actions can be performed. So, in the
case of Duke, you can use him before or after drawing an
encounter card, but if you draw the encounter card and it
inflicts Sanity loss that reduces you to 0 Sanity, you go
insane before you can use Duke. Flesh Ward is one exception
to this rule because it prevents a Stamina loss and is
intended to be used in response to such events

The bolded part is what could also lead to believe that you can use the cycle or map anytime during the movement phase.

Jhaelen you would interpret it as his movement phase is over, this is not quite true as the entire movement phase doesn't end until all players are done with their movement phases. Granted the player wouldn't be able to use the map or cycle on any other turn of the movement phase but his own...

The part as long as any given conditions are met could be that there is an assumed condition of: "you need to be able to spend movement points" in which case you wouldn't be able to use the cycle and map afterall.

Still not as clear as I'd like, but clear as it might get for FFG (KW especially). Would be nice to see an official posting or FAQ question about this.

In conclusion perhaps the 'intent' of the items is the best guide here. I agree with you that the items are basically just intended to increase movement, but not allow a go-stop-go situation.

And I agree with you this forum software blows (cuz now I'm stuck in italic, even clicking it off wont make it go away ARGH!!)

 



#19 Villain

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:20 PM

I might be completely off with my memory here, but I seem to recall reading a ruling posted on the old forum concerning the use of Ruby of R'lyeh that said something to the effect that Investigators can receive movement points only at the very beginning of the whole movement phase, making it impossible to shuffle the Ruby from one player to another in one turn. This would mean that items that grant movement points can only be used before any player has started moving.

If someone can find the specific thread and the ruling (if it even was there?), it could help clear this issue. My recollection of it is very hazy at best.

-Villain

 



#20 Avi_dreader

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 12:41 PM

Villain said:

I might be completely off with my memory here, but I seem to recall reading a ruling posted on the old forum concerning the use of Ruby of R'lyeh that said something to the effect that Investigators can receive movement points only at the very beginning of the whole movement phase, making it impossible to shuffle the Ruby from one player to another in one turn. This would mean that items that grant movement points can only be used before any player has started moving.

If someone can find the specific thread and the ruling (if it even was there?), it could help clear this issue. My recollection of it is very hazy at best.

-Villain

 

 

::Shrug;; I vaguely remember it too, the point was to not allow players to use movement points from items more than once in a turn.






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