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Power Armour - Almost useless?


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#1 vogue69

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 09:49 AM

So I wanted to create a sister of battle clad in powerarmor and jump pack.

problem: power armour is 65kg and jump pack is 25kg so it's combined weight of 90kg. just the armour. if you add bolters, ammunition, melee weapons etc you would need a combined ST and TG bonus of at least 13 to carry it all without passing out after a view hours (ok the power armor only works for 1d5 hours, very good piece of equipment.)

So how do you handle this? Is Power Armour just something for the baddies? (You know, that encounter will just happen in the 1d5 hours it is operatable and the maybe 5 hours after which it is raining fatigue on a constant basis)

 



#2 Cifer

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 10:29 AM

Power Armour is for the times you know something bad will go down. It's for the time you're storming the castle, dropping from low orbit onto the ork Waagh to assassinate its Waaaghboss, assaulting the cultist stronghold when they've nearly finished their world-ending ritual or taking on the nearly-greater Daemon in close quarter combat.

Essentially, it's for when you drive to the target location, suit up, go in, kill stuff, go out and undress again.

 

However, I'll probably hand my Battle Sister a military version with its own reactor unit that doesn't have the 1D5 hours limitation. When she earns it.



#3 Santiago

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 10:35 AM

 Power Armour is servo enhanced armour, so I house ruled it effectively has no weigth when worn.



#4 Dalnor Surloc

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 10:56 AM

Pretty much.  Give me best quality carapace any day.



#5 Face Eater

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 12:16 AM

I agree with Santiago, Power armour armour carries it's own weight while worn and powered. That's the point of it.

And you are limited by the power supply, good quality versions should extend the time but real Battle Sisters would be using full military supplies that last weeks rather than hours (depending on power usage for life support etc) but can't be recharged and would need the Sub Atomic cell replacing which you would have to go begging to mechanicus everytime for.

At least thats how I've been playing it when one of my PC's got power armour.



#6 Luddite

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 01:04 AM

Face Eater said:

I agree with Santiago, Power armour armour carries it's own weight while worn and powered. That's the point of it.

Not only that, but you might consider that power armour actually aids and adds to strength, probably at a penalty to agility.

There's a Power Armour' document over at Dark Reign (in the downloads section) you might like to check out.

 

 



#7 Gregorius21778

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 04:45 AM

I would not WANT to walk around in powerarmour except for

1) A serious battle ...which should be done in an hour unless it is a true military campaign.. in which I suppose resupplies to be ready!
2) A show of pomp, which should be done in about an hour

For anything else, I would go for Mesh.

- lightweight
- protective
- probably alot better to conceal
- better "gelt for AP" value
- easy to store
- easy to travell with
- less "fuzz" (recharging; finding a place for recharging; paying a technomat and so on)

Of course, if "the enemy" starts using bolters and plasma, you will want something else!



#8 vogue69

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 04:50 AM

Luddite said:

Face Eater said:

 

I agree with Santiago, Power armour armour carries it's own weight while worn and powered. That's the point of it.

 

 

Not only that, but you might consider that power armour actually aids and adds to strength, probably at a penalty to agility.

There's a Power Armour' document over at Dark Reign (in the downloads section) you might like to check out.

 

 

well it does give you +20 Strength, unfortunatly that's not enough to overcome the weight.



#9 ItsUncertainWho

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 06:42 AM

Don’t count the weight of the Armor or anything attached to the armor, power supply, jump pack, grav chute, etc. as counting against the carrying capacity of the wearer.

Count weapons, ammo, supplies, and other gear against total strength of wearer +20.

To do otherwise is just silly.
 



#10 BrotherHostower

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:22 AM

If you read any of the space marine stories, power armor carries itself, but once the power is off, it's heavy and cumbersome even to them (ref: inquisitor war series by bill king, I think 2nd book, for 1 example). 

Any inquisitor, space marine, or sister of battle will be using a military power supply, which will run for weeks (if not longer) and can be recharged off of anything with the proper (or appropriately jury rigged) hook ups (ref: The Killing Ground by Graham McNeil where they recharge an old suit of power armor after many hours of tweaking the feeds off of a leman russ engine, for example.)  A military grade suit of power armor has to run, run long, and run effectively, or the space marine chapters and sister of battle houses would be completely ineffective and hamstrung by the Ad Mech and alot of begging.



#11 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 05:08 PM

Luddite said:

 

 

Not only that, but you might consider that power armour actually aids and adds to strength, probably at a penalty to agility.

 

 

Why the penalty to Agility?

Here's the description of Power Armour from the Wh40K rulebook (3rd edition):

This is a completely enclosing suit of armour as worn by Space Marines. It is made from thick ceramite plates and would be heavy and cumbersome but for electrically motivated fibre bundles implanted in the armour that replicates the movements of the wearer and supplements his strength.

Meaning that a set of Power Armour isn't really a rigid full enclosing suit powered by servos and pistons, but rather a multi part exo-skeleton with artificial muscles on the inside of the suit ("electrically motivated fibre bundles" = muscles basically). Artificial muscles designed to mimic human muscles would be a lot more dextrous than a suit made up of a complicated system of servos and pistons, meaning that the armour itself should therefore only limit the movements of the wearer in a negligible manner at the very worst.

So while I (as a GM) might ask a player to at least remove his or her gauntlet from the power armour if he or she wishes to do some fine manipulation with his fingers (like tinkering with small wires in a security lock or doing sleight of hand tricks) or otherwise suffer a penalty, other Agility checks (besides Silent Move which was adressed in the errata) woulnd't have any penalties at all.

 

As for the weight of it, it would definetly be no point in wearing a suit of power armour if it wasn't able to keep itself upright. The +10 or +20 bonus for power armour is clearly intended to be the additional strength you get in excess of wearing the suit of armour (provided that it still has power that is).



#12 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 18 September 2009 - 05:12 PM

Gregorius21778 said:

Of course, if "the enemy" starts using bolters and plasma, you will want something else!

Yes, it's called, Concealment, Silent Move and Dodge.

They can't shoot you if they can't see you're coming.



#13 Cifer

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 01:26 AM

This is a completely enclosing suit of armour as worn by Space Marines. It is made from thick ceramite plates and would be heavy and cumbersome but for electrically motivated fibre bundles implanted in the armour that replicates the movements of the wearer and supplements his strength.

Bolded the important part for you.

Space Marine PA certainly is dextrous enough to maintain a human level of agility. Space Marine PA also has more than 1D5 hours of battery time.
The main reason SMPA is better than normal is the neural integration of the Marine due to his Black Carapace. Lesser interfaces may or may not afford the same level of coordination.



#14 BrotherHostower

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Posted 19 September 2009 - 05:40 AM

From the Witchhunter's Codex and Daemonhunter's codex  (as it applies to Inquisitors, Inquisitorial fodder who can wear it, and Sisters of Battle)

"Made from thick ceramite plates and electronically motivated fibre bundles that replicate and enhance the movements of the wearer, power armour is among the best protective equipment the Imperium can provide."

Bolded for the important part I suppose as the last poster did as well.  Space Marine power armor is not the important part of what makes power armor power armor.  For the prohibitive costs of power armor, you get exactly what you get in dark heresy, and that's without the military grade power supply.  Remember that Sisters, and Inquisitors, are normally not augmented in any fashion, certainly not grafted with space marine's black carapace.  You could reguard the fact that space marine power armor will most likely be higher than 8 but less than 10/11/12 (possibly all 9's, or all 10's even) as the difference between the better interface and the lesser interface (even more agility to roll with a blow representing more armor value perhaps). 



#15 vogue69

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Posted 20 September 2009 - 11:38 AM

a queston about the jump-pack part. You can either travel as Flyer(12) for up to a minute, or you can make unlimited short jumps. How far can you jump with these short jumps?



#16 Cifer

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 12:49 AM

@BrotherHowtower

"Replicating" the movement of the wearer doesn't say much in the way of quality, and the "enhancing" likely refers to strength only. "Replicating" can mean any delay between the wearer's action and the suit's reaction, any lack of joint flexibility (and creating outer joints that behave in the same way as human ones is hard - just look at your elbow and the way it moves both back and forth and also twists a little) and in sum any agility. Better (and more expensive) suits will result in better dexterity, but I don't think the armours presented in Dark Heresy are of the quality appropriate to an Inquisitor or a Canoness.



#17 Face Eater

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 01:49 AM

I would say, as it's not in the rules or errata, that normal quality power armour does not impose any speed or agility penalties beyond what is mentioned regarding stealth and silent moves. Although I would also apply it in situations where space is a factor such as contortion rolls.

I would also say that poor quality power armour probably should impos penalties, in the same way that Ork Mega Armour does.



#18 the 8 spider

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 06:09 AM

from france

they are several kind of power armor for example one is descripted as an  ornate power armor whose main purpose is not protection but to show off one heraldry. it is not better than a fine quality carapace armor. by the way this one is a millitary power armor. for me teh main probleme is the 1 to 5 hours autonomy. so yes it  s not military and yes it is not worn outside expeted trouble times but the questions is since you don't how the trouble time will go on and least you want the maximum autonomy. a power armor with a random autonomy in time of troubled unexpected or whithout a vague idea of how long it will last is a good way to commit suicide. in this the best quality carapace armor is far better a least when using it you don't have to fear to be li a scarab on his back, powerless, unable to move and vulnerable. so civilian or not i won't wear one as long as it has a random autonomie. i don't mind if is last only one hour because after that i can have a plan b (if possible) or a least remove it ( if possible).

 

 



#19 dvang

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 05:03 PM

Likely the range of value is not really 'random', it's just variable.  Most likely, variable depending on the amount of use/exertion that the suit performs.  Minimal movement with the suit means the battery lasts longer.  An active firefight with lots of running, leaping, charging, dodging will expend more energy, and obviously cause the battery to drain faster and get closer to the 1 hour 'life' range.  Still, I agree the limited battery life makes the civilian power armor extremely tough to justify the expense.



#20 dvang

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 05:43 PM

Bah, edit button disappeared from my previous post.

I just thought I'd point out, since I'm browsing my RT book, that it specifically says under the entry for Power Armor that the weight of the armor does not count for calculating the wearer's normal carrying limit. So it looks like something that has been clarified in the RT book.






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