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Not enough dice included?!


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#1 Snorri546

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 12:43 AM

There will be 36 dice in the Corebox. Presumably those will be the 36 dice shown in part 5 of the GenConVideo, and the Box will therfore include only 4 Challenge dice.

Now, the diary tells us that we need to roll 2 Challenge dice for a test of avarage difficulty.

Thus there are not enough Challenge dice included to give a adequate set of them to every player, even if there are only 3 of them plus GM.

We will have to pass the dice around. Really nice.

Oh, and the "Dice Accessory Pack" (9.95$) will include only 1 additional Challenge die, so we have to buy a lot of them packs to get a sufficient number of dice and to avoid dicesharing.

 

 



#2 Ravenheart87

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 12:49 AM

What an awfully huge problem you have there. Congratulations. Is it really that painful passing around dice or throwing one twice? In my parties there are always a few newbies, who doesn't have any dices at all.



#3 Sunatet

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 02:25 AM

Ravenheart87 said:

What an awfully huge problem you have there. Congratulations. Is it really that painful passing around dice or throwing one twice? In my parties there are always a few newbies, who doesn't have any dices at all.

I understand Snorri's point of view. It can be a problem for some people.

My players are strictly forbidden to even touch my dices (with heavy penalties to their characters if they try) not to mention of rolling them. I have always a few spare packs for players, but they can't use mine. So yes, sharing dices can be a problem.

But there is simple solution. Aside of selling dices in packs FFG should also sell them individually. Then you can buy as much of any dices you like/need as you want.



#4 NezziR

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 02:28 AM

You will have to share dice if you only buy one box (along with other items from your box the players will be using), but you shouldn't have to roll a challenge die twice unless you lose a die. From the latest diary I gather that:

0 - Simple
1 - Easy
2 - Average
3 - Hard
4 - Daunting

So, the most you'll roll at once will be 4 (unless you come across a task you deem 'near impossible' and you may want to add a 5th - which is covered if you buy 1 dice pack).

 



#5 Necrozius

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 02:30 AM

NezziR said:

So, the most you'll roll at once will be 4 (unless you come across a task you deem 'near impossible' and you may want to add a 5th).

I guess that there's where the Black Misfortune dice come in to play.

4 challenge dice is the difficulty equivalent of -30 to a skill test in Dark Heresy or WFRP v2, I think.



#6 chojun

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 04:30 AM

I'm a hundred percent behind this game, but the dice pack they are selling seems a little lacking right now.  I'mgoing to have to play it to see if we have enough dice.



#7 NewTroski

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 09:27 AM

Just looked at the contents of the dice pack... I have to wonder, why so many fortune dice?



#8 Sunatet

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 09:57 AM

NewTroski said:

Just looked at the contents of the dice pack... I have to wonder, why so many fortune dice?

In case your players stole them, and kept hidden to add them to the pool when you won't pay attention .

Seriously, I REALLY hope they start selling dices individually. No player will use MY dices! EVER!!



#9 TalkingMuffin

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 12:30 PM

 I'm not trying to be "that guy", but it's not "dices"...:) Seriously, I really like this concept and I besides, if you're willing to pay 100 bucks, what's 10 more? ;)



#10 chojun

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 01:25 PM

TalkingMuffin said:

 I'm not trying to be "that guy", but it's not "dices"...:)

 

then dont be that guy.  there may be people on here in which English isnt a first language.  or, like to say dices instead of die, or dice. big stinkin deal.  if I had to have good grammar and punctuation and spelling, and actually articulate a complicated point in a few sentences I would never post a thing.  I have really enjoyed the civil nature of our discussions and speculations the last few days.  lets keep it fun and interesting.

cheers



#11 Tang86

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 02:25 PM

The stance dice seem to be lacking as well. After looking at some of the sample stance bars for PC on the website, you may need up to three reckless red dice or up to three conservative green dice for higher level PCs. Only one red and only one green die come in each extra dice pack.

Hmm.



#12 NewTroski

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Posted 12 September 2009 - 03:18 PM

OK, to answer my own question:  I think there are more Fortune dice than others so they can be used as fortune counters on the fortune pool.  Then, when a player uses one, he takes it out of the fortune pool and rolls it.



#13 HedgeWizard

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 08:17 AM

I am not 100% sold that this new iteration is for the best; but I like a lot of what I see, and I am willing to pony up the ducats for the corebook and toolkit to try it out with my players. 

My biggest issues are:

1. The dice.  A dice pack should include enough dice for a single player to roll any and all general skills/tests.  It will be easier to share misfortune and fortune dice (and similar) out of the GMs pool, but there should be enough core dice to roll them individually. 

2. Can you play without the skill/talent cards?  It should be possible to ignore the specialty rolls and just focus on successes and failures outright with the GM interpreting misfortune and the like on a whim. i.e. if a GM doesn't want to us the cards to determine extra damage, etc. the contents of the skills/talents (like Aim, dodge, etc.) should be explicit in the rule set.  If they are only present on the cards, that will be a problem affecting adoption. 



#14 chojun

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 08:36 AM

HedgeWizard said:

 

2. Can you play without the skill/talent cards?  It should be possible to ignore the specialty rolls and just focus on successes and failures outright with the GM interpreting misfortune and the like on a whim. i.e. if a GM doesn't want to us the cards to determine extra damage, etc. the contents of the skills/talents (like Aim, dodge, etc.) should be explicit in the rule set.  If they are only present on the cards, that will be a problem affecting adoption. 

I would think that after several plays some of the more basic action cards would become second nature.  the deal is that the symbol dice allow a lot more things to go on. i don't now why you would play this version of the game if you just wanted to do success and failure. although, i read somewhere that for time saving purposes you have the option of just being straight up success and failure.

axe

multiple axes

birds

skulls

comet

chaos

thats six possiblities(did i miss any?) from one roll, hence the need for  reference cards I suppose.  I hope each card has its own personaity and things dont get redunant like in 4e D&D



#15 PzVIE

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Posted 13 September 2009 - 08:37 PM

Sunatet said:

My players are strictly forbidden to even touch my dices (with heavy penalties to their characters if they try) not to mention of rolling them.

Yes! The unwritten law for every true roleplayer: DON'T TOUCH ANOTHER PLAYER'S DICE!!! *

As far as I understood, the dice will be available separately, so everyone can buy their own set and must not contaminate the GM's dice with bad luck. Good for us old school superstitious gamers

 

* For further information on this topic (and many other RPG-related) I recommend the "Knights of the Dinner Table" comics



#16 HedgeWizard

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 06:58 AM

chojun said:

HedgeWizard said:

 

 2. Can you play without the skill/talent cards?  It should be possible to ignore the specialty rolls and just focus on successes and failures outright with the GM interpreting misfortune and the like on a whim. i.e. if a GM doesn't want to us the cards to determine extra damage, etc. the contents of the skills/talents (like Aim, dodge, etc.) should be explicit in the rule set.  If they are only present on the cards, that will be a problem affecting adoption. 

 

 

I would think that after several plays some of the more basic action cards would become second nature.  the deal is that the symbol dice allow a lot more things to go on. i don't now why you would play this version of the game if you just wanted to do success and failure. although, i read somewhere that for time saving purposes you have the option of just being straight up success and failure.

What I was trying to allude to with point #2 is that if that content (i.e. the skills/spell/whatever cards) isn't required but are instead merely play-aids, it would then be possible to create a light rule set for people to check out the game. FFG could put together a simple "starter" core book pdf (something akin to what GreenRonin did with the Song of Ice and Fire RPG quickstart guide) and sell that with a pack of dice. This would allow people to try the new system without the massive overhead. The pdf could contain rules on magic, 1 or 2 sets of spells, rules on combat, a handful of things from the bestiary, a couple of the careers and a printable character sheet. 

It would also allay the fears of those who keep screaming "But what if I lose the dice/cards/etc?!!?" 



#17 McClaud

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 08:05 AM

PzVIE said:

 

* For further information on this topic (and many other RPG-related) I recommend the "Knights of the Dinner Table" comics

LOL

You realize that KotDT makes fun of the overbearing and often bad manners of tabletop gamers, right? That the, "Don't tocuh my dice!" rule is now considered just as rude as touching another person's dice?

I used to have some real anal, paranoid people in my group like that until I instituted the, "If you roll a 20, everyone passes their d20s to the right to share the luck." I mean, that behavior often times ruins the sense of goodwill and teamwork in a game.

I welcome new dice. I also welcome new dice that I can interpret as close to the rules as I see fit and stare down the player who always bickers about margins of success/error in die rolls.

 

 



#18 HedgeWizard

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 09:03 AM

I would love to see two dice packs:

  •  the current one we have now
  • A player oriented pack that includes 4 challenge dice, 2 misfortune, 2 fortune, and 2 expertise.

 I wonder if there is a misprint on the dice pack - maybe they meant to say 4 characteristic dice, 2 misfortune and 2 fortunes?



#19 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 09:11 AM

HedgeWizard said:

I would love to see two dice packs:

  •  the current one we have now
  • A player oriented pack that includes 4 challenge dice, 2 misfortune, 2 fortune, and 2 expertise.

 I wonder if there is a misprint on the dice pack - maybe they meant to say 4 characteristic dice, 2 misfortune and 2 fortunes?

Surely a player-oriented pack shouldn't contain any challenge or misfortune dice at all? Afterall, those are the ones a GM hands out when he determines the difficulty of a test (and thus be available in abundance within a hypothetical GM's dice pack). The ones a player most frequently determines would be the Ability, Conservative, Reckless, Fortune and Expertise dice.


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#20 PzVIE

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Posted 14 September 2009 - 05:55 PM

McClaud said:

I also welcome new dice that I can interpret as close to the rules as I see fit and stare down the player who always bickers about margins of success/error in die rolls.

Can't agree more!

And, regarding the new dice in v3, rolling a twin-tailed comet or a mark of Chaos surely creates more tension than rolling 97...






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