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is this going to be card dependent?


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#1 chojun

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 11:50 AM

 

as long as we are just speculating here, here's some food for thought:

Is this going to be a card dependent system?  or, are they just visual learning aids?

4e D&D is obviously card dependent.  there are so many things going on, especially at the higher levels of play, there is no way the average joe can learn it all. keep up with everything he can do. 

Now this WFRP has cards. but is the system dependent on it?  would it be possible after a few plays to internalise and remember the actions/rules?

memory experiment:  i have seen one card.  the ranged shot card.  I know from the mechanics that one axe is a success.  2(or was it 3?) axes does plus two damage. two birds gives me a free manuever( what ever that thing is), and two skulls pulls an unengaged enemy into melee with me.

how did i do?

this my friends is the benifits of a visual resolution system. you can pick things up quicker.  if you have been playing for years and you are good at math and remembering text, and you have plenty of friends that "think" the same way you do then this new edition probably isnt for you.  probably wasnt designed for you. its for old farts like me and the new guys.

cheers

 



#2 Cynical Cat

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 12:12 PM

The game mechanics are built around a system that uses cards to track special abilities, spells, miscasts, and critical hits.  It is card dependent.



#3 jadrax

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 12:13 PM

chojun said:

Now this WFRP has cards. but is the system dependent on it?

It seems as if the Cards have counters stored on them, so they look pretty much essential to play.



#4 chojun

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 12:27 PM

jadrax said:

 

chojun said:

 

Now this WFRP has cards. but is the system dependent on it?

 

It seems as if the Cards have counters stored on them, so they look pretty much essential to play.

 

 

 

yeah, i forgot that point.  but i think that i could remember the stuff written on the card pretty easy, if its one that gets used a lot.   thats what i was driving at.  the recharge stuff is something totally new and it will be interesting how smooth it goes.  yeah, the wounds and miscasts you are going to have to have.  but i'm thinking that remembering the interactions between the cards and the dice will become second nature pretty quick.  thats my clumsy point im trying to make.  once again communication breaks down on the part of the poster not the responder.

thanks for the intelligent discussion



#5 chojun

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 12:39 PM

this also reminds me of a time during college where my mom through away a manila file folder full of a year and a half old dragon lance campaign.  it was hard to tell the guys, "uh, I lost all your character sheets."   the notion of card dependent really applies here.  if you lose some of your insanity cards does that mean your character is only half crazy?



#6 macd21

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Posted 08 September 2009 - 10:19 PM

You'll memorise a lot of the card information after a while, but you'll always want to have them there as a reference. It won't be nearly as bad as DnD though, IMO.



#7 ChaosChild

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 12:43 AM

macd21 said:

You'll memorise a lot of the card information after a while, but you'll always want to have them there as a reference. It won't be nearly as bad as DnD though, IMO.

Unless you lose any cards, in which case it's worse than D&D. At least in D&D all the information is in the books with the cards being a convenience rather than a complete necessity (albeit, an almost necessity due to the number of books you may have to reference). If you lose the card in WFRP3 the information is lost.



#8 Jarl

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 02:28 AM

ChaosChild said:

macd21 said:

 

You'll memorise a lot of the card information after a while, but you'll always want to have them there as a reference. It won't be nearly as bad as DnD though, IMO.

 

 

Unless you lose any cards, in which case it's worse than D&D. At least in D&D all the information is in the books with the cards being a convenience rather than a complete necessity (albeit, an almost necessity due to the number of books you may have to reference). If you lose the card in WFRP3 the information is lost.

 

Actually in this respect it's strictly worse than DND 4th ed.  At least there, you get a character builder which allows you to print out a personalized sheet of all your abilities.  I print 16-18 to a page which is enough to hold the 17-18 powers a character can get through his class powers..  No cards needed at all. 



#9 PaterSin

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 06:05 AM

It seems have forgotten what an RPG is (Which is amazing because they made DH and RT).  This system might work out fine, I will give them that, but to say that this is as true as any other RPG is a F'in lie.  It seems all they have made is an interactive table top game, with heavy relience on verbal communication.  To make cards, data sheets (other than the normal char sheets), and special dice required to play is completely broken.  Does this mean that each new player needs to buy a PC starting package and other stuff.  Would it be impossible to play with just the two base books (DM guide and PC guide).  Fantasy Flight needs to elaborate on these points more than anything else.



#10 dvang

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 06:30 AM

I believe in the seminar videos Jay mentioned in passing that the cards are for aid in gameplay, and can be optional later if desired (or something to that effect).  I expect you could transcribe card information onto paper, and easily record tokens and stuff too.  So, it certainly doesn't seem like 3e is dependant on the cards to me. 

Also, although the information is on the cards, nothing has been said whether or not the information is also in one of the books.  It is possible there is an appendix in one of the books that contains all the information from the cards, we just don't know.

Regardless, you know that shortly after the game comes out someone will make a pdf (or more) with all the collated card information in a list/document, so it's hardly going to be an issue.



#11 Foolishboy

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 09:53 AM

PaterSin said:

It seems have forgotten what an RPG is (Which is amazing because they made DH and RT). 

Dark Heresy was made by Black Industries, FFG have made most of the supplements and Rogue Trader. However, Rogue Trader is heavily based on Dark Heresy which in turn was heavily based on WFRP. 



#12 NewTroski

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 11:43 AM

Who gets to decide exactly what constitutes an RPG?

If I play WFRPv2, at a table, around which the players are sitting, with their character sheets on top of it, does that then make it a tabletop game?  If I also have a board with figs that I use for combat is it now a tabletop board game?

What about the other way?  Is Vampire not an RPG because they don't use all of the RPG dice that D&D did?  Is LARP'ing not an RPG since they don't even use dice?

I don't know why people are so hung up on the cards, and supposed definitions of what makes an RPG.



#13 PaterSin

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Posted 09 September 2009 - 12:23 PM

NewTroski said:

Who gets to decide exactly what constitutes an RPG?

If I play WFRPv2, at a table, around which the players are sitting, with their character sheets on top of it, does that then make it a tabletop game?  If I also have a board with figs that I use for combat is it now a tabletop board game?

What about the other way?  Is Vampire not an RPG because they don't use all of the RPG dice that D&D did?  Is LARP'ing not an RPG since they don't even use dice?

I don't know why people are so hung up on the cards, and supposed definitions of what makes an RPG.

I'm asking if you can play the game without any other aids but the basics:  car sheets, core books,  basic dice. (Can normal die rep. the special ones they have?)  I just want to know if it more streamlined like the more common RPG games out there that, the majority of people are used to playing and not some over the top reference sheet game that makes you use a half dozen specialized items.  To me even WizCost wouldn't be that control crazy as to limit the players because, "I have to half a** it today, I lost the one sheet" or "I dont know, just make something up, I dont have my special dice to role." 

 

Edit: reading this again, im seem to go a little hard but i just really want to know more about it.






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