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Your beloved fan made rules in previous edition, and a place for fan made rules in incoming one


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#1 Sunatet

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 07:19 AM

Ok, small reminder on the beginning, I'm still on the sceptical side. But I feel as I ranted enough, and it is time to stop whining, and start asking questions that maybe convince me to give this new product a chance.

So. We all have seen some of the stuff FFG is preparing for us, we read the faq, watched the movies, we got the picture.

What I want to discuss is not the story/fluff side of the game, as it is universal, and can be put together with any rules. What I want to discuss is fan made mechanics in old, and possibly the new edition.
You played warhammer before (most of you), you know the rules, you know its flaws. Not all of these rules are to your liking, some of them just are not there. It goes not only with warhammer, but also with other games board, and rpg alike.

You prabably have some of your favored rules. Some stuff you made sitting and testing in the long evenings, or some rules made by other players. New edition presents us with overhaul of all, or most of the previous mechanics.

Now. I want to ask you if there are some original/fan made rules, that you will really miss, or hope to be included in new version, or hope that there will be some simple solution that you can overdo and include those rules yourself.

For example:
I made my own rules on wounds, divided them in 4 types (normal, serious, critical, mortal), each of them can be dealt in single attack on healthy character if someone is lucky enough. Each of them (except normal) gives wounded character some drawbacks. It is not perfect, and I'm not fully happy with it, but it works in a way, and is more fun than original, i'm a god untill im 0 HP.
New edition brings it's own rules on that, and I'm happy with it (plus on new edition).

Another example is removing Experience Point totally from the game. Now my players can increase their stats/skills by making enough succesfull checks, and/or some good roleplaying. Important is, that now, when they want to increase in some characteristics/skill/spell they need to use it. Following that I changed also how professions work. They are now somewhat diffrent. Instead of profession being the only way of life that helps you become a god, when you pump them with EP enough, and skip to another better one, professions are now what players do, when they need money, or are on a quest/mission. To start a profession there need to be balanced supply/demand on that profession (no ratcatcher in a town without rats), they need to meet the requirements (stats and skills), and have required equipment. They can leave and start the profession on similiar matter, like changing jobs in real life.
Changing the original rules to the above will be probably the first thing I do with new edition (a very important change for me, because I really have issues with EP progress, I feel it lacks a lot) if I'm convinced to buy it.

In the end I want to ask developers if the new edition will have place for fan made rules. Some unused dice space to fill the rules in. Some blank cards maybe. Will the above rule with no EP be hard to make in new ed ?

As far as the original rules go, they rarely cover all the possibilities, and one of the fun things in a game is the ability to change/add the rules to your personal preferences. To get whats best with them, change what you do not like, add what you miss.

Previous editions got tons of additional rules all over internet. Will the new edition be subject to do this too?



#2 Crazy Aido

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 11:00 AM

 I like what you did with experience. Suitably challenging. I did something like that when one of my wizards tried to take an "elite" advance. (Sorry for use of DH terminology).

 

Actually, yeah, what if we want to take out of character advances, will that kind of thing be accommodated?



#3 Knight Panther

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 08:14 PM

Sunatet said:

Now. I want to ask you if there are some original/fan made rules, that you will really miss, or hope to be included in new version, or hope that there will be some simple solution that you can overdo and include those rules yourself.

Well I think the most threads on the WFRP 2EdHouse Rules-board are subject to this.

On a first thought "Mounted Combat", "Magical and Combat Fatigue" and the beloved "Swift Attack Action" are coming to my mind!



#4 phobiandarkmoon

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 08:29 PM

I run mostly as written. I generally allow tests against knowledge skills that aren't quite right for the bit of information at a penalty. And running does not reduce attacks to hit you if you are running straight towards the person shooting at you.



#5 Sunatet

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 09:25 PM

Knight Panther said:

Well I think the most threads on the WFRP 2EdHouse Rules-board are subject to this.

Yes, thats true, but I wanted something more than just "write your rules here".
I ask You what rules of previous editions you will really miss/hope to be implemented/want to implement yourself in a new version which changed rules drastically.

I ask the developing team, how hard it will be to made such a house rules. You know, 3-rd edition has some neat cards, and such, now imagine you want to add a new profession, or new skill, or change an existing one. I have no artistic skills, but it looks like, if I want to make something new in 3-rd ed I will require not only to make the rules, but also to make some cards and profession sheets to fit in the game.

I want to know how much work it will take with fan made rules to make, or convert, and if we have any support for that (ie. blank cards, or profession sheets, blank dices maybe).



#6 Sunatet

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 09:42 PM

Oh, and almost forgot.

Another rule I will miss/hope to be implemented is the size problem, you know, dwarf fighting giant...
I added a size characteristic, to every race. Playable races have size of 3, ogres, trolls 4, giants 5, really huge monters like chaos dragons are 6. Now every time a player tries to attack such creature I substract a doubled difference in size of every damage roll against it (if the creature is bigger), I add a doubled difference in size to every damage roll that creature does to the player. Same is with opposed test, but instead doubling the size difference, I multiply it by 20, and add/substract to the given test. Its easy, its fast, its working. Hope to see something similiar in 3-rd edition.



#7 MagnusSeter

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 09:43 PM

 

Sunatet said:

 

I want to know how much work it will take with fan made rules to make, or convert, and if we have any support for that (ie. blank cards, or profession sheets, blank dices maybe).

 

 

Well, I'm not official, but I'll take a stab at this anyway.

In my opinion, we're looking at a game where the traditional rulebook has been transformed, and the rules shifted to cards in some cases. But there are still rules, like in any rpg.

So I think we're looking at three kinds of fan made stuff; the Quick Fix, the New Component Fix and the Same Old Stuff.

The Quick Fix

Akin to a simple post or a written paragraph, such as that which you supplied. It could be as simple as "House rule 1: We don't use the tension meter", or "House rule 2: We double all damage".

This could even be something like "here's a table which converts dice result on a normal dice to the funky new WFRP dice! With added variants!"

This will be very simple to make. As simple as it is today.

The New Component Fix

This will basically be the same kind of rules fixes as above, but with a layout that fits with the components in the game. Look to DagobahDave and my own The Altdorf Correspondent to see what's possible to make by fans. This will have to find some sort of level where we don't duplicate FFG designs, but I'm certain this is possible.

The Same Old Stuff

A lot of the best fan stuff is system agnostic, and related to background. For example, most of what DagobahDave puts out can be used with any version of WFRP. These things will still be made, and enjoyed by fans of WFRPv1, WFRPv2 and WFRPv3.

At least this is what I think will happen.

/Magnus

 



#8 Knight Panther

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Posted 27 August 2009 - 10:26 PM

Sunatet said:

Knight Panther said:

 

I have no artistic skills ...

Me neither! On a skilltest my result (in %) will always be a 96-100

So I have no idea if it's even possible for fans do produce cards (for example) which are indistinguishable from the FFG ones.



#9 Sunatet

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Posted 28 August 2009 - 05:35 AM

You are absolutly right MagnusSeter.

I know that there are some very talented people that can make wonders. I know they will make some new stuff and rules, and I'm gratuful for them.

But (yeah there always is a 'but') I'm not such a person. I'm an average GM with no special manual skills, or good eye. Yes I can, I am, and I will use stuff made by other people, but the most important to me is always stuff that I make myself.
And since it looks like this can be a little problematic with new edition I made this topic to ask the developers how hard it can be to change/add the rules by an average person, ask if we will have some support in doing that, and point the rules in previous edition, that people found lacking, changed them, and hope they will be taken care of in new edition either by developers themselves, or by making a house rules in some way as easy as it can be.

What can I say. I'm a person that love to experiment with different rules if I think they lack something. I made some that I'm proud of, and I would like to keep them (no EP for me and my players). Will I be able to? Or I be forced to use only what FFG and those skilled enough make (but this will take half of my fun)?

And yes, I have hopes for an official answer some day.



#10 Cynical Cat

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 09:38 AM

Knight Panther said:

Sunatet said:

 

Knight Panther said:

 

I have no artistic skills ...

 

 

Me neither! On a skilltest my result (in %) will always be a 96-100

So I have no idea if it's even possible for fans do produce cards (for example) which are indistinguishable from the FFG ones.

 

Should be.  There's software to make your own Magic: The Gathering cards and whatnot.  Use similar programs to have FFG style card, right the fluff and the game mechanics, drop in the right art, and voila.



#11 Foolishboy

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 10:35 AM

I think printing the cards to a high quality would be the biggest problem. It wouldn't be too hard to scan in an existing card and then insert  your own text without using any specialist software.



#12 sudden real

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 01:43 PM

Knight Panther said:

 

Me neither! On a skilltest my result (in %) will always be a 96-100

Get with the times. Now it's "three blanks and two skulls". :P



#13 Foolishboy

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 08:52 PM

On the subject of Fanbased productions, I've been thinking about how slowly FFG generally release products and I was thinking that if the fans attack WFRPv3 fan supplements with their usual zeal, we will most likely have updated much of the Warhammer World well before FFG ever release official supplements. I can just see Jay Little announcing the Imperial Boxset that he and his team have spent forever making and it ends up being released a year after four different fan productions have been put online for free download.



#14 Necrozius

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 01:16 AM

I really like your house rules, Sunatet.

Do you have a site or blog that lists all of them? I'm going to start a 2E game this fall (in anticipation of 3E), and some of these ideas are pretty sweet.



#15 Sunatet

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 02:17 AM

Necrozius said:

I really like your house rules, Sunatet.

Do you have a site or blog that lists all of them? I'm going to start a 2E game this fall (in anticipation of 3E), and some of these ideas are pretty sweet.

Not yet.

I'm still working with some of this, and translating to english will be even more challenging (different pages in original books, different skill and attribute names, and my english also needs some polishing).

But I will try to post some short simplified version when I get back home from work.



#16 Sunatet

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 09:02 AM

Ok, as I promised, I started a topic with my home made rules in here:

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp






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