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Poke an Astropath in the Eye


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#1 DocIII

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 04:57 AM

Traditionally, and even in the background text describing the career in the RT book astropaths are blind.  However the game mechanics for blindness do not seem to be applied to them, nor do they seem to have the trait.

Now one could assume that their psychic senses compensated for the blindness, but this is not clearly stated, and further if that were the case then wouldn't anyone with a good psyniscience score be immune to blindness?

Discuss.



#2 Talex

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 06:14 AM

 I think blindness is removed buy the soul bound talent...i think so at least



#3 Omnicrazzy

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 07:42 AM

I think blindness is CAUSED by the soul binding. The eyes are what soul binding traditionally costs, thou the DH book at least suggests that other things could be sacrificed to the dark gods rather than letting the emperor burn out your eyes.



#4 Graver

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 07:55 AM

Well that's... odd. Perhaps they just assume that since they mentioned an Astropath was blind, one would play them as such and apply negatives and prohibit actions based on common sense?

When talking about psyniscience as a sensory power, again, as this is a stand alone game, that should have been included... perhaps in the description of psyniscience? Either way, going by IH, they can use psyniscience in place of awareness when detecting life forms so, it would act as a crude form of sight (well awareness of where folks are and kinda what they might be doing but watch out for that wall!).

In the original Rogue Trader, Astropaths were described as having a "near sense" , an enhanced spacial awareness that came from being soul bound which allows them to sense normally visible things within 20m of them. I know a lot of the original Rogue Trader doesn't apply to 40k any longer but perhaps they still are able to do this. If so, then it should have been discussed or described somewhere. I don't have the book yet so I can't rummage through it to find any mentioning of such in odd non-intuitive places.

So, off of what i know and not having the book yet, I would treat Astropaths as being blind unless they make a psyniscience test which would allow them to get a very general lay of the land when it's important but with no visual details (colors, detailed features, distinguishing marks, etc). I would also give them a -20 to tests that require sight as if they had One Eye as opposed to being completely blind.

which makes me wonder, do they get the trait Blind Fighting at any point during their career? It seems right up their ally...

 



#5 FFG Ross Watson

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 08:00 AM

 The Astropath's blindness, and their psychic ability to "see without eyes," is clearly stated in the Rogue Trader Rulebook on page 72.



#6 Graver

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 08:04 AM

Ah ha!  I found it!  It's on page 72!  I don't even have the book and I finnaly figured that out.  I must be some kind of psyker or something.  Damn I'm good!



#7 DocIII

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 08:19 AM

FFG Ross Watson said:

 

 The Astropath's blindness, and their psychic ability to "see without eyes," is clearly stated in the Rogue Trader Rulebook on page 72.

 

 

Thank's Ross. 

I'm apparently 2 for 2 when it comes to missing obvious stuff in the new book.  I guess that's what I get for being too interested in too many different parts to finish reading one section before skipping to another.



#8 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 11:14 AM

DocIII said:

Thank's Ross. 

I'm apparently 2 for 2 when it comes to missing obvious stuff in the new book.  I guess that's what I get for being too interested in too many different parts to finish reading one section before skipping to another.

We call that "new book syndrome" in our group. Soo many pages, so much to read, so you simply skip several sections in a frantic mission to absorb everything from the book as fast as possible. "Readers gluttony" would also be an appropriate term.



#9 Maxim C. Gatling

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 11:20 AM

If you want another RPG perspective on how to role-play this, I highly suggest reading the WH40k fluff book "Blind".  It's about...well, Astropaths.  Oh, and Arbites...



#10 TorogTarkdacil

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 06:15 AM

Maxim C. Gatling said:

If you want another RPG perspective on how to role-play this, I highly suggest reading the WH40k fluff book "Blind".  It's about...well, Astropaths.  Oh, and Arbites...

And, don´t forget, the Holy Ordos...



#11 Psion

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 06:27 AM

Varnias Tybalt said:

We call that "new book syndrome" in our group. Soo many pages, so much to read, so you simply skip several sections in a frantic mission to absorb everything from the book as fast as possible. "Readers gluttony" would also be an appropriate term.

I think that's a common psychological phenoma in RPG groups.

Other then that, I would have assumed that Astropaths had some kind of "sight."  Maybe not in the context we're used to thinking of (which would make for an interesting RP opprotunity) but playing a blind character is... difficult for most of us.



#12 Dalnor Surloc

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 12:32 PM

I've done astropaths in my DH games and basically had the PCs be very rare Astropaths that survived with their optical nerves intact.  (Mainly as my PC psykers seemed to get to the 80s on perils by the 5th time they used their powers.)  The fluff generally says most, or almost all loose their sight.  (Of course some lose a lot more.)



#13 Cynical Cat

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 01:51 PM

Cybernetic replacements for lost eyes is far from unknown in 40k.



#14 monkyman

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 03:09 PM

the speculation is facinating, but...

if its not a problem, what does the RT book actually say about how to handle this?

The cybereyes thing has always bothered me.  Augmetics are fairly common in 40k, my DH character had a cyberarm*, so why don't astropaths uses them?

My theory is that whatever makes them blind doesn't just damage the eyes but something in the mind/brain.  Either

a) it is physical and burnes out the sight center of the brain or alters it.  Optic nerves are likely replaced with augmetics, but the brain would be a problem.  Especially if the altered section was necessary for astrotelepathy.

b) it's warp/psyker related.  The loss of the eyes is only a physical side-effect of Soul binding, the real effect is to the soul/mind.  The astropath no longer perceives the way normal people do, and no physical augmentation would change this.

*Eldar splinter broke my arm in Shades of Twilight, spent the next three days in the shuttle passing between pain filled waking and nightmare filled sleep.  By the time I got proper medical care the arm was necrotized and had to be amputated.  All of this was in the rules.  I love DH.



#15 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 02 September 2009 - 09:46 PM

Every source I can recall (and the two I've just checked - the Codex Imperialis from 2nd edition 40k, and the original Rogue Trader/1st edition 40k rulebook) says that it burns out the optic nerves completely, presumably to the extent where there's nothing left to connect augmetic eyes to. Bionics do still need to be attached to something, afterall.


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#16 Bilateralrope

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 10:18 AM

Do Astropaths usually cover their empty eye sockets or leave them exposed ?

 

And what could be hidden in one ?



#17 Artaxerxes

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 11:34 AM

Bilateralrope said:

Do Astropaths usually cover their empty eye sockets or leave them exposed ?

 

And what could be hidden in one ?

 

Depends very much on the Astropath, some sew there eyelids shut (and some of those paint false eyes on the lids), some wear bandages/bandanas over the sockets, again with decoration and others leave the raw sockets alone.

For those wishing to fill the gaps as it where, bionic sensors, head tubes or loose change is entirely appropriate



#18 Dalnor Surloc

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 01:17 PM

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Every source I can recall (and the two I've just checked - the Codex Imperialis from 2nd edition 40k, and the original Rogue Trader/1st edition 40k rulebook) says that it burns out the optic nerves completely, presumably to the extent where there's nothing left to connect augmetic eyes to. Bionics do still need to be attached to something, afterall.

Yes and no.  You could wire a bionic eye into another area of the Brain.  Thus an Astropath could feel/smell objects instead. Also it doesn't help that the soul bind can deaden other senses, and as time go it tends to get worse. This would also require most than run of the mill cybernetics.  The astropath would need train themselves to use the device, but people do similar things now.  Another way is a telepathic bond with an animal or servitor. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31779581



#19 Bilateralrope

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 04:11 PM

Artaxerxes said:

Bilateralrope said:

 

Do Astropaths usually cover their empty eye sockets or leave them exposed ?

 

And what could be hidden in one ?

 

 

 

Depends very much on the Astropath, some sew there eyelids shut (and some of those paint false eyes on the lids), some wear bandages/bandanas over the sockets, again with decoration and others leave the raw sockets alone.

For those wishing to fill the gaps as it where, bionic sensors, head tubes or loose change is entirely appropriate

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of a concealed weapon. Probably eye lasers since the recoil from other weapons could be a problem.



#20 Dalnor Surloc

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Posted 03 September 2009 - 05:48 PM

  Like a Jokaero made digital laser eye.  Or a mini plasma grenade?






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