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$100 Price Tag


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#1 Storm Wolf

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 10:46 AM

I was kind of shocked when I saw the price for this even though you get a lot of stuff.  After looking at the preview at Gen Con and reading some posts that the rule books are hardback and between 90 something and 128 pages, I looked at one of my latest purcheses for the WFB game.  The Uniforms & Heraldry of The Empire book is hardback, 72 pages, and cost $24.75.  $99.95 doesn't seem unreasonable to me now.



#2 Emirikol

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 11:05 AM

Yes.  You do get a  lot of stuff.

 

It makes me wonder what break point it would have to be for people to get all this stuff and stop using price as an objection.  Is the price purely psychological considering how much most of us have pissed away on stuff in the past?  I threw most of my THOUSANDS of dollars worth of old D&D stuff right in the trash or gave it away to charity last year..most of that stuff was purchased using my student loan dollars from college :)

 

jh

 



#3 ymrar

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 11:19 AM

I think it's not the amount of stuff. It's the price you have to give for a product you're not sure you're going to like. You can get a basic book of another systems from 20 to 60€. Even the 60 gets many people thinking.

At least in finland seems to be something of a limiter for many people. Most new console games are a bit over 60. Only very few board games go over 60, most of them are 40+. GW miniature games starting box is 50 to 60e. If you want to try a CCG game, you can get started with 20-40e. A very few PC games go over 50e. Yet still a lot of people want to wait for a used product, or a cheaper re-release. (Obviously not in the CCG department..;))

So yes I do see the 100$ (which propably will turn into 100e, as they usually do in finland) price tag as a problem. I see it as a problem as a buyer and I see it as a problem in the view of stores. 100e price tag will stop most of the impulsive shoppers on their tracks..



#4 macd21

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 11:24 AM

 

Emirikol said:

Yes.  You do get a  lot of stuff.

 

It makes me wonder what break point it would have to be for people to get all this stuff and stop using price as an objection.  Is the price purely psychological considering how much most of us have pissed away on stuff in the past?  I threw most of my THOUSANDS of dollars worth of old D&D stuff right in the trash or gave it away to charity last year..most of that stuff was purchased using my student loan dollars from college :) 

 

No, while the price is reasonable for what you get, it's still a lot of money to spend on a game that you are unsure of. If it was only $40 plenty of Warhammer fans would buy it just to check it out, others just to add to their collection. Plenty of people would buy it with the intention of reading it a bit and eventually getting around to running it, maybe in 6 months or a year, at which point they'd buy more of the supplements.

I'm currently running 4 different games and playing in a few more. I won't have the opportunity to run WFRP again for a while. I'm reluctant to spend that  much money on a game that will sit on a shelf for months. If I'm going to buy it I have to know that I'm going to get a chance to run it soon.



#5 kristof65

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 06:17 PM

While it seems like the $100 price tag is reasonable for the stuff you get, it's a hugely limiting factor when it comes to trying to get people to try the game - especially new-comers who don't have anyone else to show them the game.

Think about it - Mom walks into the FLGS to buy her teenage son who wants an RPG for Christmas.  Even if the kid has specifically asked for WFRP 3e, Mom's gonna hesitate spending $100 bucks when she can buy him a D&D 4e PH for far, far less. 

Likewise, the boxed set thing won't help the price point.  At most game/book stores, you can pick up an RPG core book and leaf through it, to get an impression.  Can't open a shrink-wrapped box to check out the contents - better hope that the store has one open already, is willing to open one, or has someone around who can really brief you on the contents.



#6 donbaloo

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 06:50 PM

 A hundred bucks is nothing to sneeze at to be sure.  But I didn't think it outrageous when I first saw it.  As others have said, yeah, you get a lot of stuff.  Is that enough to justify it?  It is to me, considering what all that stuff does.  And there's lots of ways to look at the cost breakdown.  For example, 100 bucks takes me and the wife to the movies and gets us popcorn and drinks about four times.  For about 10 hours of total entertainment.  A 100 dollar RPG certainly brings more hours of entertainment than that, by far.

Another way to look at is along the same lines as other RPGs.  Heck, even WFRP v2 which I bought but never played, I think I was in for about 90 bucks once I'd purchased 2 handbooks, screens, and character sheets.  It looks like everything we need is in the core box here, for four players.  Probably not much need for multiple copies since all the character sheets and reference cards are there to limit book referencing.  So, not so far off from even v2 buy in...at least in the way that I buy into games.  Of course, when you compare this buyin with a lot of the indie games which are also total packages, its very high.

Either way you look at it, v3 is a chunk of money.  But it doesn't seem that significantly higher than a lot of other costs in the hobby for what you're getting.  But I also just dropped about 100 on Talisman and its expansions too and thought that was relatively fair.  



#7 kristof65

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 06:58 PM

donbaloo said:

For example, 100 bucks takes me and the wife to the movies and gets us popcorn and drinks about four times.  For about 10 hours of total entertainment.  A 100 dollar RPG certainly brings more hours of entertainment than that, by far.

Conversely - sure, that $100 buys you far more entertainment value than the movies.  But people really don't think about spending that $25 at the movies.  They think twice as hard about dropping $50 on something though. They think four times as hard about spending  $100 on something.

For the teenagers, compare it to video games - assuming they already own a console - which most do, or at least have access to one - $100 is two relatively new video games.  So they'll be thinking "$100 on this RPG called WFRP 3e or $50 for Call of Duty 4?"

 



#8 donbaloo

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 07:14 PM

 Yeah, you may be right kristof.  I can't exactly say who the real target audience for v3 may be, though I obvious fit in, hahaha.

I have to think though that FFG is seeing pretty decent success with their big box boardgames and those are 80 bucks a pop.  You mentioned video games.  Current console games are 60 bucks and you get 10-20 hours out of a shooter.  I personally think these price tags balance out when it comes to bang for buck.

But none of that even really matters unless the game actually has new buyers getting interested in it.  I don't know who the new buyers will be but I guess FFG is hoping that its established fan base will fill a lot of that role.  And since they're used to spending 80 on boardgames its not a far stretch to see them putting down a bit more this shiny new FFG styled RPG maybe?  I hope they're successful with it.

I have to assume that v2 had done all it was going to do.  The times for bringing in new players have come and gone with v2.  I personally didn't see a lot going on with Warhammer so maybe it had stagnated.  My local gameshop never even managed to sell a single WFRP book.  As I understand, there wasn't even a WFRP game at GenCon this year and the same goes for my local cons.  So maybe FFG is also hoping that the NEW will bring Warhammer back into the limelight long enough to spark interest and have folks checking it out.  Will they balk at the 100 price tag? I guess we'll see, but a $100 price tag on D&D didn't seem to hurt it too much.



#9 Jacques el arcabucero

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 08:08 PM

WH1 y 2 have all necessary to play in only one book.
WH3 have all necessary (?) to play in four books.
Why? This is the excuse to make people pay 100$! (sure 100€ in Spain, comrade Ymrar).

Now you need pay triple than normal for the same product you have before with only one book. And remember! all you need to play is not included in this expensive box! is only for 4 players! If you wanna play with more friends, you must wait for further expansions. And, i´m sure this expansions not will be cheaps...

Is expensive, you can say whatever you want. But is expensive.



#10 Blue Wizard

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 03:33 AM

 If the four 3ed books are similar in content depth as the Players Handbook, Tome of Salvation, and Realms of Sorcery, I think that's not a bad deal when you throw in all the dice, cards, and other stuff.  But, if the books are watered down and skinny, then no.  

Anybody know how much the Adventurer's Toolkit is going to cost?  I'm already starting to feel strung out...  



#11 Redcrow

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 04:15 AM

I would also be interested to know what the Adventurers Toolkit will cost and how many more potential players it adds to the game.



#12 donbaloo

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 04:23 AM

 Yeah, I'm also interested in the AK price too.  As others have pointed out the real problem may not even be in the price so much as not having the option to buy the stuff you may specifically want.  For example, if I ever get around to playing WFRP it'll be with 3 players and myself.  That's just the size of my two potential game groups now and its my favorite sized group for gaming.  So as far as needing the AK for more players, I don't need it.  However, they're also packaging in other careers there that I would want to have.  But it looks like if I want to get those extra careers I'll have to fork out the extra cash for all the extras I don't need too.



#13 Foolishboy

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 06:46 AM

Redcrow said:

I would also be interested to know what the Adventurers Toolkit will cost and how many more potential players it adds to the game.

Someone posted it would be about $30, I don't know if that is accurate or simple speculation.



#14 kristof65

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 04:00 PM

donbaloo said:

 Yeah, I'm also interested in the AK price too.  As others have pointed out the real problem may not even be in the price so much as not having the option to buy the stuff you may specifically want.  For example, if I ever get around to playing WFRP it'll be with 3 players and myself.  That's just the size of my two potential game groups now and its my favorite sized group for gaming.  So as far as needing the AK for more players, I don't need it.  However, they're also packaging in other careers there that I would want to have.  But it looks like if I want to get those extra careers I'll have to fork out the extra cash for all the extras I don't need too.

Now that you mention it, I wonder how flexible it will end up being with larger groups.  I've run WFRP games with as few as one player and as many as thirteen (yes, thirteen), while my preferred size is 6-7 players.



#15 Reclusiarch

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 04:04 PM

Well, if you want to buy it with your gaming group it quickly become much cheaper. :)



#16 SamVimes

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 04:35 PM

I'll admit I was really shocked at the $100 price tag, as I'm really interested in version 3. I think the card-based format and visual aides would actually get my group to play, whereas we never played 2.0 even though two of us bought all the books. However, I bet I'll be able to get it at a 3rd party place for $15-20 cheaper after shipping, and then it isn't sooo bad. It's just something that I'm going to have to budget for instead of something I can pick up just because.



#17 Redcrow

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Posted 22 August 2009 - 06:34 PM

In my current group I have 6 players.  I generally prefer 4 to 6 players and that seems to be the average size of most RPG groups.  I'm a little surprised the basic 3e boxed set only accomodates 3 players and a GM.  I would think that it would at least accomodate 4 players.  I know its been said that you can just use an envelope to store cards and data for additional players.  I just hope the Adventurers Toolkit adds enough extras to accomodate more than a single additional player. 



#18 donbaloo

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 04:30 AM

Redcrow said:

In my current group I have 6 players.  I generally prefer 4 to 6 players and that seems to be the average size of most RPG groups.  I'm a little surprised the basic 3e boxed set only accomodates 3 players and a GM.  I would think that it would at least accomodate 4 players.  I know its been said that you can just use an envelope to store cards and data for additional players.  I just hope the Adventurers Toolkit adds enough extras to accomodate more than a single additional player. 

I've wondered about this myself and the conclusion that I came to is that it plays along with marketing to a new crowd of WFRP players first and foremost. I know that a lot of folks have trouble actually getting an RPG group together in the first place.  You see it all over forums everywhere and I figure its probably pretty representative of what's going on outside of the internet as well.  So here you have this new RPG that you've designed in a way to hopefully attract new players and made its information streamlined for play (which should also help to show the real meat of RPGing, the storytelling).  At the same time, those same components that will be beneficial to the players, they're expensive.  So you don't want the cost of the product to be any higher than necessary while maintaining those nice tools.  So why not package it for the most likely group size for a new group gathering to play this new game?  Four players is a pretty standard groupsize for most types of games out there, barring one-on-one wargames.

So FFG probably just saw it as the sweet spot for packaging costs and the likely group size of new players coming into v3.  Just a guess obviously.



#19 macd21

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 05:10 AM

I think it was just what they could fit into the box. In any case, like donbaloo said, adding more material in would up the cost. If you have a smaller than average group then you'd be paying for surpluss materials. The game is expensive enough as it is, I'd prefer the price was kept down and let people share cards, let them choose whether they want to buy the extras or not.



#20 daddystabz

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 01:51 PM

I am worried about the price too because I have players that are willing to try it but unwilling to BUY it so we are all hoping that one box bought by me will have everything the players will need too to play the game.  I hope there will be enough dice, etc. for everyone but some of my players that like to own some of their own things like the core rulebook, dice, etc. see the steep price as a large turnoff.

Does anyone know if  one boxed set will have enough for other players too and if maybe they will release the core rules separate just for players that want to look at equipment and maybe own the book?






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