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#1 chojun

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 03:24 PM

two groups:

1. If you hate the idea, its probably coming from the fact that you have a lot of time, money, memories, and good times with the old editions. you dont fancy the idea of anybody trampling on these things.  you want more of the same. and you want to round out what you already have.

2. If you are on the optimistic side, you love anything with the Warhammer label and you like other games that FFG has produced which means you have probably spent at least 60 bucks on a big box board game  

 

If you are a company that sells games, what group do you think you would stand to make the most cash off of?

my humble, not so articulate answer:

The first group has already spent its cash.  It already has plenty of books and stuff, and probably has purchased enough material to keep them going for a decade or more of gaming. (thats where I'm at on D&D.  i have no need for any new stuff and dont want to learn a new edition) 

the second group has cash to spend and is willing to spend it on something new, or something they think they will like (unlike the first group who already knows what it likes) .

I would have to redesign the game and sell it to the second group. 

unfortunately, RPGs are books.  When you put one out there, the people who really want it buy it and they dont buy it again.  maybe its great and word spreads and other folks want to buy it.  but eventually everybody who wants it eventually buys it, and then it stops making money for you.  then you got to come up with something else. or close the doors and go out of business, and your wife divorces you and takes everything you own. end of story

now i have no idea what the life of a boardgame is, i dont know if it follows the same publishing cycle as books.  But if you start packaging an RPG like a big board game whats going to happen?   I can only guess by looking at Descent.  Its a big core game that had a whole lot of work put into it and evidently keeps making money for FFG.( when I bought it, i went back and bought runebound and then I bought Tannhauser and thought long and hard on Arkham Horror but i havent pulled the trigger on that yet. then i bought a copy for a relative then i bought 3 expansions.  I dont know if this kind of buying makes more money for a company than rpg book, but its what i did. 

anyway, thats my take.  i'm sure there are other angles out there to be discussed 

 

 



#2 Hellebore

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 04:02 PM

I belong to a 3rd group.

 

People who like all things warhammer but don't like it when ONE part of warhammer is dropped and replaced with a DIFFERENT part of warhammer. Not side by side, INSTEAD OF.

 

I got into WFRP through the wargame. I've got more miniatures than I can count and almost all the BL novels printed. I've got a W.A.R. account with a level 40 ironbreaker called Dougal Meatshanks. I'm running a Mordheim campaign at the moment with custom built terrain we spent the last year making.

 

But that doesn't mean I am going to LIKE having Mordheim dropped and replaced with Smasheim super heroes in the old world. Or WAR removed and replaced with The Old World Is ALIVE zombie mashup.

All these people with their high an mighty attitudes forget that basic premise. This isn't a new game FFG is releasing, it's a new game replacing an old one.

 

I can pretty much guarantee that had FFG released this ALONGSIDE WFRP2 as Warhammer: Heroes or something, then there wouldn't be anywhere near the vitriol.

 

This isn't just a 'new' game, it's a replacement for another one. And that doesn't fly.

 

Hellebore



#3 DagobahDave

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 04:37 PM

I'm one of the Reverse Engineers of the Concurrentist First Wavers Advance Group.



#4 Blue Wizard

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 06:12 PM

 Would you be willing to rebuy another copy of Descent with somewhat altered rules?  Would you do so repeatedly every 3-5 years?  Would you continue to do so if buying the "entire" game cost over $500?  What will happen when all of the RPGs have been packaged/converted to a boardgame type style?  What's next?  You cannot do NASCAR-themed WFRP or Marvel Superheroes-themed WFRP like Monopoly however cool that might sound.  It seems a short-term proposition.    



#5 GreyLord

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 06:32 PM

chojun said:

two groups:

1. If you hate the idea, its probably coming from the fact that you have a lot of time, money, memories, and good times with the old editions. you dont fancy the idea of anybody trampling on these things.  you want more of the same. and you want to round out what you already have.

2. If you are on the optimistic side, you love anything with the Warhammer label and you like other games that FFG has produced which means you have probably spent at least 60 bucks on a big box board game  

 

If you are a company that sells games, what group do you think you would stand to make the most cash off of?

my humble, not so articulate answer:

The first group has already spent its cash.  It already has plenty of books and stuff, and probably has purchased enough material to keep them going for a decade or more of gaming. (thats where I'm at on D&D.  i have no need for any new stuff and dont want to learn a new edition) 

the second group has cash to spend and is willing to spend it on something new, or something they think they will like (unlike the first group who already knows what it likes) .

I would have to redesign the game and sell it to the second group. 

unfortunately, RPGs are books.  When you put one out there, the people who really want it buy it and they dont buy it again.  maybe its great and word spreads and other folks want to buy it.  but eventually everybody who wants it eventually buys it, and then it stops making money for you.  then you got to come up with something else. or close the doors and go out of business, and your wife divorces you and takes everything you own. end of story

now i have no idea what the life of a boardgame is, i dont know if it follows the same publishing cycle as books.  But if you start packaging an RPG like a big board game whats going to happen?   I can only guess by looking at Descent.  Its a big core game that had a whole lot of work put into it and evidently keeps making money for FFG.( when I bought it, i went back and bought runebound and then I bought Tannhauser and thought long and hard on Arkham Horror but i havent pulled the trigger on that yet. then i bought a copy for a relative then i bought 3 expansions.  I dont know if this kind of buying makes more money for a company than rpg book, but its what i did. 

anyway, thats my take.  i'm sure there are other angles out there to be discussed 

 

 

 

I'm a HUGE buyer of games from FFG.  I suppose If all in the second group if I had to be put in a sided group from your descriptions.  I don't have the MOST FFG games, but I have quite a number as can be seen from my profile.

If they were designing it to appeal to me and those like me...it is EPIC FAIL thus far.

AS FOR THE Descent question, would i be willing to buy it all over again in 3-5 years, if they did a redesign with smoother rules, and hopefully a campaign like RtL from the getgo...I actually might be at the beginning of the line for that one.



#6 Ye Ancient One

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 08:44 PM

I suspect WFRP 3e will be just be WFRP 2e with a better ruleset.  In that sense I'm happy for it to be replaced.  I don't see a significant change in the tone of the game and even if there is, I'm sure as a GM I can just spin it my own way.  If anything, I see a bigger change in tone between 1st and 2nd editions.



#7 Loswaith

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 08:47 PM

Some things the OP doesnt look at (not picking just food for thought).

RPGs are realy a bifferent breed of things basically from observation over 20 odd years there are two major ways boardgames and RPGs differ.

Most people will buy one copy of a board game and little else while the minority will buy expansions and new editions for the same game.

Conversly most people buy an RPG and will then spend more on the same line usualy till there are about 10+ books on the market at which point people start having all they want. 

Personaly RPG systems I like, I will spend $200-$300 on without considering the amount I have spent and am still likely to spend an additional $200+ on other stuff but that will be more considered and I'll tend to look for more bargains.  If I have an intrest in a new system or edition I will purchase an initial rules to check it out but I wouldnt spend more than say $70-$80 to do it.

 

To summarise:
Board gamers will buy different games but will rarely purchase more than one item in that line, RPGers will buy many things from the one line, whiel the minority will only buy one or two.

 

We all understand that gaming companies have to make money, and unfortunatly for an RPG line to make money it needs new, revised or alternate editions.

Given the response over 3rd ed WFRP if they had of released it as a side venture, Im sure there would have been alot more intrest in it from the WFRP crowd, because it is so radically different to the previous editions.

 



#8 Loswaith

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 08:50 PM

Ye Ancient One said:

I suspect WFRP 3e will be just be WFRP 2e with a better ruleset.  In that sense I'm happy for it to be replaced.  I don't see a significant change in the tone of the game and even if there is, I'm sure as a GM I can just spin it my own way.  If anything, I see a bigger change in tone between 1st and 2nd editions.

It unfortunatly looks like the cards anad dice are integeral to the game not just particulary aids, and being an incessant tinkerer with system mechanics it makes that job harder.

Though Im shure im not alone in hoping you are right.



#9 Necrozius

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 02:04 AM

I think that the OPs two groups are over simplified. People aren't that simple to categorize.

Also, I love how so many posts in this forum insinuate (in varying degrees) that those of us who are optimistic about WFRP v3 are fickle, shallow or are vacuously and blindly in love with anything FFG releases.



#10 egalor

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 02:52 AM

Hellebore said:

I've got more miniatures than I can count and almost all the BL novels printed. I've got a W.A.R. account with a level 40 ironbreaker called Dougal Meatshanks. I'm running a Mordheim campaign at the moment with custom built terrain we spent the last year making.

That makes me feel I'm a n00b in Warhammer! :)



#11 chojun

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 02:59 AM

thanks for the responese folks, just wanted to see if I was missing some viewpoints and I was. 



#12 VonMoose

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 03:01 AM

an insight into FFG, they are just using mechanics developed for board games and have tried to wrap wfrp around it

from what we have seen ; wfrp is now Wfrp JR

another pointin allof this what response has anyone got from FFG on the forums...  end point



#13 macd21

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 03:09 AM

VonMoose said:

another pointin allof this what response has anyone got from FFG on the forums...  end point

 

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=149&efcid=3&efidt=180620



#14 Ravenheart87

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 03:10 AM

Necrozius said:

 

Also, I love how so many posts in this forum insinuate (in varying degrees) that those of us who are optimistic about WFRP v3 are fickle, shallow or are vacuously and blindly in love with anything FFG releases.

 

 

Me too. This will be the first FFG product on my shelves. I was thinking a lot about buying Rogue Trader too, but I won't have time to GM and play it, since I already have a HackMaster and a WFRP2 campaign, and possibly a WFRP3 in the (hopefully) near-future...



#15 ChaosChild

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 03:28 AM

chojun said:

two groups:

1. If you hate the idea, its probably coming from the fact that you have a lot of time, money, memories, and good times with the old editions. you dont fancy the idea of anybody trampling on these things.  you want more of the same. and you want to round out what you already have.

2. If you are on the optimistic side, you love anything with the Warhammer label and you like other games that FFG has produced which means you have probably spent at least 60 bucks on a big box board game  

If you are a company that sells games, what group do you think you would stand to make the most cash off of?

my humble, not so articulate answer:

The first group has already spent its cash. It already has plenty of books and stuff, and probably has purchased enough material to keep them going for a decade or more of gaming. (thats where I'm at on D&D. i have no need for any new stuff and dont want to learn a new edition)

the second group has cash to spend and is willing to spend it on something new, or something they think they will like (unlike the first group who already knows what it likes) .

These are not mutually exclusive groups. I'm definitely in group 1, but I also love anything with the Warhammer label (20+ years playing WFB, can't wait for Chaos in the Old World and Warhammer Invasion), like loads of other FFG games, and spent that much just this week pre-ordering the new Space Hulk.

Oh and the first group may have spent its cash, but we'd spend more if we were given the opportunity. I'm also willing to spend my money on something new (probably an excessive amount if my past history is anything to go by), but as things stand right now it's unlikely to be WFRP3.

If they'd released WFRP3 so it was compatible with previous releases (which I think is what a lot of the fans were hoping for) then they'd have got more money out of me personally (and a lot of the WFRP2 diehards as well), while still allowing them to market the game as something brand-new. Best of both worlds.

From a marketing point of view what they've done makes a certain amount of sense, but it's far from the best option they could have gone for financially.



#16 Hellebore

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 03:51 AM

Necrozius said:

I think that the OPs two groups are over simplified. People aren't that simple to categorize.

Also, I love how so many posts in this forum insinuate (in varying degrees) that those of us who are optimistic about WFRP v3 are fickle, shallow or are vacuously and blindly in love with anything FFG releases.

 

Well it doesn't help when some of the 'optimists' start insinuating you aren't a true fan of warhammer unless you buy anything to do with it and do it with a smile. You can't have it both ways.

 

Hellebore



#17 Necrozius

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 04:02 AM

Hellebore said:

Well it doesn't help when some of the 'optimists' start insinuating you aren't a true fan of warhammer unless you buy anything to do with it and do it with a smile. You can't have it both ways.

I dunno: accusations of not being a true fan of Warhammer aren't really on the same level as accusations of a lack of mental faculties or questionable manhood.

I mean, seriously, some of the "pessimists" were reacting as if they had just been infected with AIDS by FFG itself.






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