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Shock about the new game


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#1 Inquisitor Liss

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:14 AM

 I was very shocked at the new format to the warhammer fantasy game when I was at Gen Con. I see the feelings are mixed on the forum.  I play DH but this looked interesting in concept.  The only thing I missed was a projected release date, which I know this is FFG so that release date can be plus or minus months but has anyone heard?  



#2 jadrax

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:19 AM

I belive Autumn was mentioned.



#3 Emirikol

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:51 AM

I was shocked that nobody was running even a single game of WFRP2 at GenCon.

There's supposedly all these fans, yet nobody runs games at giant conventions?

jh



#4 Hellebore

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:07 AM

Emirikol said:

I was shocked that nobody was running even a single game of WFRP2 at GenCon.

There's supposedly all these fans, yet nobody runs games at giant conventions?

jh

 

Wow, aren't we a smart arse? I'd love to run a game at Gencon - if you are willing to fly me from Australia to the states to do it. When making an argument it does one well not to use fallacies in ones argument. It avoids making oneself look like an idiot troll.

 

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#5 Emirikol

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:20 AM

Just stating the facts man.

 

I'm seriously disappointed in the American fanbase.

 

jh



#6 jadrax

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:23 AM

Emirikol said:

I'm seriously disappointed in the American fanbase.

As a game its always seemed to be more popular with Europeans than with Americans.

(That is not to say there are no American Fans, but they are not the majority).



#7 DagobahDave

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:31 AM

Youch, Hellebore.

I don't think V2 is as popular as we'd like. I'm just judging it by the forum traffic on FFG, Strike-to-Stun and RPGnet about this game, as compared to Vampire: The Requiem discussions on White Wolf's site alone. Maybe we're just not as vocal as some other gamers, but considering the sudden show of love and support for V2 that's cropped up recently, I have to wonder what those folks have been doing this whole time.

I'd love to think that it's because they were all playing V2 so much, but I don't really believe that.


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#8 jadrax

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:35 AM

DagobahDave said:

I don't think V2 is as popular as we'd like. I'm just judging it by the forum traffic on FFG, Strike-to-Stun and RPGnet about this game, as compared to Vampire: The Requiem discussions on White Wolf's site alone. Maybe we're just not as vocal as some other gamers, but considering the sudden show of love and support for V2 that's cropped up recently, I have to wonder what those folks have been doing this whole time.

I'd love to think that it's because they were all playing V2 so much, but I don't really believe that.

Vampire is the second most popular game system of all time though, hell it almost had more players than D&D at its height. Compare WFRP with titles such as Silcore, Rifts, Runequest, Hackmaster and the like and it looks a lot more healthy.



#9 DagobahDave

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 06:34 AM

You're probably right, jadrax.

V2 might be as healthy or healthier than those games. I've been looking around for the GenCon RPG events schedule, but I'm failing. It'd be interesting to see how many games were going, and for what games.

In retrospect, it's easy to see that V2 was finished. FFG is a big operation compared to some of those other game companies. With a larger payroll and overhead, FFG expects their RPGs to sell better. In game-board-company-think, that means they have to be loaded with things that players will find valuable. It's the perfect recipe for a big-scale dramatic revitalization of the brand, appealing to a broader audience than just WFRP players, and even beyond just roleplayers.

I don't think they could have continued to support V2 through the end of its natural lifespan and still met their bottom line. Black Industries didn't seem to be able to pull it off either, and the game really felt like it was in its prime when they boarded up. V2 probably got as far as anyone could have taken it without considering another line of work.

By the way, it's awesome to see so many WFRP fans showing that they value something that can't easily be put onto a card and think they're unnecessary for a good RPG. They might be right.


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#10 jadrax

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 07:00 AM

I believe This is it?

 

DagobahDave said:

In retrospect, it's easy to see that V2 was finished. FFG is a big operation compared to some of those other game companies. With a larger payroll and overhead, FFG expects their RPGs to sell better. In game-board-company-think, that means they have to be loaded with things that players will find valuable. It's the perfect recipe for a big-scale dramatic revitalization of the brand, appealing to a broader audience than just WFRP players, and even beyond just roleplayers.

I don't think they could have continued to support V2 through the end of its natural lifespan and still met their bottom line. Black Industries didn't seem to be able to pull it off either, and the game really felt like it was in its prime when they boarded up. V2 probably got as far as anyone could have taken it without considering another line of work.

Without sales numbers Its very hard to get a good idea of how well it did, although I would be surprised if it did not outsell a great deal of FFGs current game lines. Certainly I think this version will set better than most supliments you could have put out for the second edition, (Although I think there are some that would have sold very well), but I dont think a radical redesign is any more or less likely to sell than the same kind of update that happened between v1 and v2.

If the reason they decided to do this was forced upon the designer by accountents, rather than being something he passionatly wanted to do, then I do think this edition is doomed. Fortunatly I do not this it is the case.



#11 Istivan

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 01:28 PM

jadrax said:

DagobahDave said:

 

I don't think V2 is as popular as we'd like. I'm just judging it by the forum traffic on FFG, Strike-to-Stun and RPGnet about this game, as compared to Vampire: The Requiem discussions on White Wolf's site alone. Maybe we're just not as vocal as some other gamers, but considering the sudden show of love and support for V2 that's cropped up recently, I have to wonder what those folks have been doing this whole time.

I'd love to think that it's because they were all playing V2 so much, but I don't really believe that.

 

Vampire is the second most popular game system of all time though, hell it almost had more players than D&D at its height. Compare WFRP with titles such as Silcore, Rifts, Runequest, Hackmaster and the like and it looks a lot more healthy.

 

 

Rifts is the greatest RPG ever created, WHFR being a close second



#12 Cat that Walked by Himself

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 02:38 PM

jadrax said:

Emirikol said:

 

I'm seriously disappointed in the American fanbase.

 

As a game its always seemed to be more popular with Europeans than with Americans.

 

(That is not to say there are no American Fans, but they are not the majority).

 

Well, RPGs are like Rock music. Americans have invented it but Brits have done it properly  ;)



#13 TS Luikart

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:05 PM

The second edition of Warhammer was written, in the main, by two Yanks with a fair amount of editing and various fiddly bits by Brits, an Aussie and a Dane. Make of that what you will.



#14 Cat that Walked by Himself

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:05 PM

Yes. And my favorite LP ever is The Pet Sounds. Make out of that what you will :)



#15 DagobahDave

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 09:54 PM

Cat that Walked by Himself said:

 

Yes. And my favorite LP ever is The Pet Sounds. Make out of that what you will :)

 

 

I have no idea how we got onto this topic.

My roommate recorded himself doing the entire Pet Sounds album using only his body and voice, no instruments. Crazy stuff.


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#16 Jacques el arcabucero

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:12 PM

jadrax said:

Emirikol said:

 

I'm seriously disappointed in the American fanbase.

 

As a game its always seemed to be more popular with Europeans than with Americans.

 

(That is not to say there are no American Fans, but they are not the majority).

Of course is more popular with Europeans than with Americans.

The Oldworld is Europe! Bretonnians, Estalians, Tileans, Kislev, etc, etc...



#17 Cat that Walked by Himself

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 10:32 PM

 

Well, it's better than Doom & Gloom & Nerdrage & Smartassery...
You have a cool roommate. Maybe he can send it to Irwin over at the wfmu.org...

 

For the record,
I still feel that v1 rulebook is the best RPG book. It is my Pet Sounds of the RPG world. But you know what? Lily (that's how I call my v1 rulebook) is safe and sound on my shelve. She is not going anywhere and I'll still be able to talk about Warhammer world with both v2 and v3 and WFB lovers.

This differation is good for all of us in the long run. Look at the 4e over there in D&D world. Without it we wouldn't have OSR and Pathfinder and whole bunch of other things. Maybe something similar happens now with the WFRP 3e. As chairman Mao said 'Let a hundred flowers blossom'!
I would be more afraid if MadAlfred said that he won't write for the WFRP no more. That would terrify me :)

I just hope that 3e does not have anything to do with Warpstone shutting down...

 

 



#18 Pierre Campan

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 11:01 PM

Jacques el arcabucero said:

jadrax said:

 

Emirikol said:

 

I'm seriously disappointed in the American fanbase.

 

As a game its always seemed to be more popular with Europeans than with Americans.

 

(That is not to say there are no American Fans, but they are not the majority).

 

 

Of course is more popular with Europeans than with Americans.

The Oldworld is Europe! Bretonnians, Estalians, Tileans, Kislev, etc, etc...

yes you are right.

in another way it should be hard to make a middle age inspired game in USA ... you should have not so many sword and chivarlry but more indians

To be honest WHFRP was and is very popular in France. we like the low fantasy setting (specialy the V1, less the V2) and we can see outside in our home towns setting that are very close to middle ages (my house was build in 1784, it is not so old compare with other houses).

That's why we do not like so much hight fantasy. (ok 'we' is me)

So inspiring was Warhammer for us that one french autors named 'croc' made a game around thief in an univers not so far from warhammer (nightprowler !! it was a must)

Pierre



#19 MILLANDSON

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 11:30 PM

jadrax said:

 

Vampire is the second most popular game system of all time though, hell it almost had more players than D&D at its height. Compare WFRP with titles such as Silcore, Rifts, Runequest, Hackmaster and the like and it looks a lot more healthy.

 

And the World of Darkness, in it's entirity, is the best selling RPG currently. White Wolf has a larger part of the RPG industry than even WotC now.

So yea, it is hard to compare them, but given the popularity of Games Workshop games, you'd have thought there would be more WFRP fans. DH sold well enough! (what with it being in the top 5 best selling RPGs of last year).


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#20 Cat that Walked by Himself

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 11:59 PM

This bit about nWoD outselling D&D is really interesting. You have some hard data on that? Link or something?






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