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I still don't get the "Sympathizer Card"


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#1 Tretiak

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 12:30 AM

I'm sorry for bringing this up again, but:

The manual doesn't really state that by having the sympathizer card, cylons start helping the humans and viceversa. I've read that paragraph in the manual dozens of times and all I see is the hint of what the card might represent. Leaving the triggered results behind, It doesn't state whether the player should really start caring for the other team and ultimately join it in victory or defeat.

Can someone clarify this for me ?



#2 Smuggler

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 02:11 AM

If we peal away all the fluff and just look at the rules it's quit easy.

1. If you have a "You are a cylon" card then you ARE on the cylon team. No mater what other cards you have.

2. If no resource is in red the sympathizer rule says that after resolving the card it is treated as a "You are a cylon" card. Ergo the holder of it is on the cylon team.

3. If one or more resources are in red the sympathizer rule says that after resolving the card it is treated as a "You are not a cylon" card. So what tema you are on then depends on what other cards you have.



#3 TheChampIsHere

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 09:05 AM

What are the rules of this game? Can someone post them?



#4 Smuggler

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 10:04 AM

TheChampIsHere said:

What are the rules of this game? Can someone post them?

They are avalible under the support section: http://new.fantasyfl...?eidm=18&esem=4



#5 Big Head Zach

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 11:18 AM

The intent of the Sympathizer card is to increase the difficulty of the game at the halfway point, if  it's looking particularly good for the humans (no resources in the red). It adds a slightly less-powerful Cylon player to the game (in 4 player games, it brings the total Cylon team to 2; for 6-player games, 3.) The game is hard enough as it is (and the power of an unrevealed Cylon is considerable given what they can secretly undo, more than Shadows over Camelot offers), that only if the humans are doing well does the game "even the sides".

No matter what, if any of the resources are in the red, then all the Sympathizer card does is send a human/unrevealed Cylon to the Brig. "This card is then treated as a You Are Not A Cylon card (p19)". This card can either be dealt directly to someone, or handed to them by a Revealed Cylon player who is dealt the card (p19, top left paragraph). If you're an unrevealed Cylon and get sent to the Brig this way, I'd put on a good show of how the randomness of the deck screwed you over, and now you'll need help in busting out. Then, once sprung, shoot the Admiral in the chest and enjoy your free space cruise and complementary milk bath (that means spend your next Action activating your You Are A Cylon card, btw). If you're a revealed Cylon and get the Sympathizer, figure out who the humans really need to be mobile and able to lay down loads of Skill Cards...and send them to the Brig by giving them the card.

But let's consider the situation where the humans are breaking even (more or less), and all resources are blue. Here's three possibilities.

  1. A Revealed Cylon gets the Sympathizer card. He/she picks the player who is best placed to ruin the humans' chances, and gives them the card. Proceed to either #2 or #3 below.
  2. A human gets the Sympathizer card. The human gets the free space cruise and milk bath, but does not have the benefit of being able to play a Super Crisis card or directly activate Cylon ships using the "Cylon Fleet" location.
  3. An unrevealed Cylon gets the Sympathizer card. This is where the Resurrection Ship location comes into play. While you yourself join the Cylon milk bath but without the Super Crisis Card or the Cylon Fleet action at your disposal, you can use the Resurrection Ship action to give your unrevealed "You Are A Cylon" card to a player the humans desperately need to win, and boom! Instant sleeper agent. Now, there's not really a surrepticious way of doing it so the next thing that happens is that someone jumps on Admiral's Quarters (or Executive Orders the President, who has the equivalent Quorum card) and throws the new sleeper into the Brig. Sleeper then should just reveal the Cylon card and join the fleet (they lose the ability on their Cylon card for activating while inside the Brig, but there's not much else they can do). Now if the next person to take their turn is the newly-appointed sleeper....*wrings hands menacingly*.


#6 Tretiak

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 10:32 PM

Thank you!

Clearest thread I've read so far.



#7 Hibernian11

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Posted 01 December 2008 - 05:02 AM

Thanks, Smuggler & Big Head Zach!

I agree with your read on this.  I think it finally clears it up for me.



#8 Eldil

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 06:49 AM

I think you've nailed it; one thing, though:

Big Head Zach said:

Now, there's not really a surrepticious way of (using the Resurrection Ship to pass off a loyalty card) so the next thing that happens is that someone jumps on Admiral's Quarters (or Executive Orders the President, who has the equivalent Quorum card) and throws the new sleeper into the Brig. Sleeper then should just reveal the Cylon card and join the fleet (they lose the ability on their Cylon card for activating while inside the Brig, but there's not much else they can do). Now if the next person to take their turn is the newly-appointed sleeper....*wrings hands menacingly*.

It's true that there's no "subtle" way of passing off a loyalty card, but remember that your second loyalty card is most likely a "You are not a Cylon" card. The other player's will know that, so if you do pass a card off, they will no there's a strong possibility that you are just doing it to create confusion, suspicion, and dissent (incidentally, I recommend passing off "You are not a Cylon" cards to create confusion, suspcision, and dissent). So receiving a loyalty card from a revealed Cylon is not necessarily a one-way ticket to the brig; it just means that you'll be under a lot more suspicion. I've received a loyalty card from a revealed Cylon, and been able to convince the crew that I was a full-blooded human.

Also, I'd like to add this:

The Thematic Distinction of the Cylon Sympathizer.

The Cylon Sympathizer may be a Cylon that sympathizes with the humans, or a human that sympathizes with the Cylons, depending on what the resource dials are at.

If one of the resource dials is in the red, the Cylon Sympathizer is a Cylon that sympathizes with the humans. For the rest of the game, the Cylon Sympathizer character is a Cylon that has switched to the human side (since it's possible for the Cylon Sympathizer to have an additional "You Are A Cylon" card, it's possible this "sympathy" is actually a bluff). That's why this kind of Sympathizer is immediately thrown in the Brig. No one trusts a Cylon, even if they've decided to side with the humans.

If all of the resource dials are in the blue, the Cylon Symapthizer is a human that sympathizes with the Cylons. Along the lines of Adama's famous speech which starts the series, this is a human that doesn't think humanity has proved itself worthy of survival, and has joined the Cylon side. He or she is not a true Cylon (doesn't get a Super Crisis Card and can't control the fleet), but still sabotages humanity at every turn.

This doesn't change any of the mechanics you've confirmed above, it just allows you to understand what the mechanic thematically represents. Example:

If Saul Tigh gets the Sympathizer card during the sleeper phase, and one of the resource dials is in the red, it means that Saul Tigh was a sleeper agent, a Cylon, but has decided to remain loyal to the humans. For all game mechanical purposes, he is a human, and if the humans win, he wins. But thematically, he is a Cylon.

If Saul Tigh gets the Sympathizer card during the sleeper phase, and all of the resource dials are in the blue, the Saul Tigh is a human that has decided to turn against humanity. For all game mechanical purposes, he is a revealed Cylon for the remainder of the game. If the Cylons win, he wins. But thematically, he is a human.






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