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This is the right thing to do and the right time to do it


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#1 TylerT

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 07:09 AM

From what I can tell this game is what needs to happen, in fact I have been working on something similar for some time (it's a case of totaly unrealated simultaiuns development).

Whine and moan all you like when this drops your going to love the hell out of it. Not only are you going to love it but all your friends are going to love it.  (if they can afford it) What they are doing is a very natural next step for RPG's and is one thats going to take down the barries that are keeping these wonderful games from reaching their full potential.

Despite some slick marketing efforts on the part of WOTC role playing games are a dead or dieing industry. The skills requierd to make book RPGs work are no longer skills most people have. It's no small thing that roleplaying was big in the 70's-80's when most people understod how to read and comprhend long form diagnostic manuals.

If it's anything like my own project this game is going to grant you a new interface for playing the same kind of game you already love. an example of interface design would be something like my SWSE character sheet

Prepare to upgrade from the command promp to a full on GUI

man I wish I worked at FFG



#2 GreyLord

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 07:34 AM

TylerT said:

From what I can tell this game is what needs to happen, in fact I have been working on something similar for some time (it's a case of totaly unrealated simultaiuns development).

Whine and moan all you like when this drops your going to love the hell out of it. Not only are you going to love it but all your friends are going to love it.  (if they can afford it) What they are doing is a very natural next step for RPG's and is one thats going to take down the barries that are keeping these wonderful games from reaching their full potential.

Despite some slick marketing efforts on the part of WOTC role playing games are a dead or dieing industry. The skills requierd to make book RPGs work are no longer skills most people have. It's no small thing that roleplaying was big in the 70's-80's when most people understod how to read and comprhend long form diagnostic manuals.

If it's anything like my own project this game is going to grant you a new interface for playing the same kind of game you already love. an example of interface design would be something like my SWSE character sheet

Prepare to upgrade from the command promp to a full on GUI

man I wish I worked at FFG

 

WOTC has the right idea though.  I didn't agree with the final approach to it, and as I thought, it didn't turn out as the ideamen of the project predicted...however, it is along the right track.  Everything is going digital, and RPG's need to get to that point as well.  Gametable, and DDI were the ideas that WotC has tried to get going in that direction, and thus far...it still needs to be seen as it slowly gets improved...as it is FAR behind schedule.

I don't think hardcore boardgames, which is a niche market EVEN SMALLER then RPGs, and incorporated boardgame elements into an RPG is really going to do the trick, BUT, I could be completely wrong too.



#3 Chernobyl

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 07:41 AM

TylerT said:

Whine and moan all you like when this drops your going to love the hell out of it. Not only are you going to love it but all your friends are going to love it.  (if they can afford it) What they are doing is a very natural next step for RPG's and is one thats going to take down the barries that are keeping these wonderful games from reaching their full potential.

Right, because in a recession economy what you want to do is publish a game that is 3x as expensive to get into as the previous one was.



#4 Merroth

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 07:51 AM

Chernobyl said:

 

TylerT said:

 

Whine and moan all you like when this drops your going to love the hell out of it. Not only are you going to love it but all your friends are going to love it.  (if they can afford it) What they are doing is a very natural next step for RPG's and is one thats going to take down the barries that are keeping these wonderful games from reaching their full potential.

 

 

Right, because in a recession economy what you want to do is publish a game that is 3x as expensive to get into as the previous one was.

 

 

I don't see why ppl do not consider the thought of buying the product by sharing the groups resources. With 1 GM and 3 players each paying for the game they all will get use, the price/head is only 25$. It's way nicer than paying 100 bucks for it yourself when you hopefully play with others and won't be using it alone.



#5 TylerT

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 07:58 AM

GreyLord said:

 

WOTC has the right idea though.  I didn't agree with the final approach to it, and as I thought, it didn't turn out as the ideamen of the project predicted...however, it is along the right track.  Everything is going digital, and RPG's need to get to that point as well.  Gametable, and DDI were the ideas that WotC has tried to get going in that direction, and thus far...it still needs to be seen as it slowly gets improved...as it is FAR behind schedule.

I don't think hardcore boardgames, which is a niche market EVEN SMALLER then RPGs, and incorporated boardgame elements into an RPG is really going to do the trick, BUT, I could be completely wrong too.

 

 

 

 

I was speaking of WOCT's marketing efforts in regard to the penny-arcade podcast, it's such a simple thing but it has made the games so visible and given them more cultural relevance in the circles I travel.
I think the online efforts are premature and misguided, unless there is a significant AR feature the number of people who will currently use a computer program to play a table top game are few. Hand held devices may change this but it's still a fairly large barrier to entry.

Miniatures games used to be just as obscure as rpg's but as soon as they stopped leaning so heavily on books to play the game (moving to stat cards or click bases) they started to thrive, it's my guess that the same is going to happen to RPG's.

this game may not be getting everything right but it's a important step.



#6 ejacobs

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 08:46 AM

That's a good point for a poll:  Who here cares what type of economy is going on now?  I'd hazard that very few do.  It just isn't something that many gamers think about.  We buy based on our gut most of the time.  Is this box expensive?  Yes.  Is it worth it?  I believe it will be, and I believe many others will feel the same way.  Do we worry about what the stock market is doing while wondering about our favorite game?  Nope.  My concern over purchasing this game is whether I can convince my CFO(wife) that our monthly budget (it never changes) can allow it.  It has nothing to do with the overall economy.  I think we're starting to split hairs here as to what this product is and what it will deliver.  I have purchased FFG products in the past, and until they burn down my home (that is not a challenge!), I'm going to continue to purchase their products.

E



#7 Blood Stained Sunday's Best

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 09:05 AM

Merroth said:

 

 

I don't see why ppl do not consider the thought of buying the product by sharing the groups resources. With 1 GM and 3 players each paying for the game they all will get use, the price/head is only 25$. It's way nicer than paying 100 bucks for it yourself when you hopefully play with others and won't be using it alone.

 

I wish I had your friends! We'd end up in some Biblical King Solomon nightmare as we all attempted to saw apart our section of the box. Everytime my brother comes over my house we still argue over whos Alternity Gamemaster's Guide graces my book shelf. I have to frisk him to ensure he is not smuggling out the books he has convinced himself I stole during his childhood...... oh but he doesn't know I have his Kara-tur box set hidden in my closet after I rescued it from his drawer of doom where all book are compacted into pulpy mush.

Yeah...we'd all kill each other. It'd be like Voltron. We'd all have to bring together the pieces to form one mighty box set. And woe the individual who bent a book corner or scratched the box.



#8 Blood Stained Sunday's Best

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 09:15 AM

ejacobs said:

That's a good point for a poll:  Who here cares what type of economy is going on now?  I'd hazard that very few do.  It just isn't something that many gamers think about.  We buy based on our gut most of the time.  Is this box expensive?  Yes.  Is it worth it?  I believe it will be, and I believe many others will feel the same way.  Do we worry about what the stock market is doing while wondering about our favorite game?  Nope.  My concern over purchasing this game is whether I can convince my CFO(wife) that our monthly budget (it never changes) can allow it.  It has nothing to do with the overall economy.  I think we're starting to split hairs here as to what this product is and what it will deliver.  I have purchased FFG products in the past, and until they burn down my home (that is not a challenge!), I'm going to continue to purchase their products.

E

I am quite worried. Many of my friends are unemployed with no hope of solving this in the short term. I am in sales as my commission has shrunk...... my gaming budget has shrunk. My friend who I game with took a demotion at his job in order to avoid unemployment. His pay has shrunk immensely. My brother, the cornerstone of my gaming group, is spending his extra money on schooling so if he looses his job he can have more options. So yes the economy is taking its toll. I live in a state that has been heavily impacted by the housing crash. Three of my friends have parents who are now unemployed and need financial help from their children. I think three or four times before I buy anything non essential. Price point is definately a factor.



#9 Foolishboy

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 10:11 AM

ejacobs said:

 Who here cares what type of economy is going on now? 

The millions of unemployed people that had regular jobs a year ago. The millions of people worried that they will lose their jobs in the near future.

 



#10 ejacobs

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 10:13 AM

Then the harsh reality of the situation is that they shouldn't be worrying about what the next game is to come out.  Games are luxury items.  Play what you have until you can afford to play new ones.

Best of hard work to all of you that are going through difficult times.

E



#11 Silent Star

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 10:35 AM

ejacobs said:

Then the harsh reality of the situation is that they shouldn't be worrying about what the next game is to come out.  Games are luxury items.  Play what you have until you can afford to play new ones.

Best of hard work to all of you that are going through difficult times.

E

You really are a smug self-satisfied son of a *****. Do you have any human empathy at all?. If your part of the new WFRP community then please bring back the rabid psychos, no matter how irrational they all are, at least their not *****, a claim you cannot make.



#12 Captin'

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 10:36 AM

TylerT said:

From what I can tell this game is what needs to happen, in fact I have been working on something similar for some time (it's a case of totaly unrealated simultaiuns development).

Whine and moan all you like when this drops your going to love the hell out of it. Not only are you going to love it but all your friends are going to love it.  (if they can afford it) What they are doing is a very natural next step for RPG's and is one thats going to take down the barries that are keeping these wonderful games from reaching their full potential.

Despite some slick marketing efforts on the part of WOTC role playing games are a dead or dieing industry. The skills requierd to make book RPGs work are no longer skills most people have. It's no small thing that roleplaying was big in the 70's-80's when most people understod how to read and comprhend long form diagnostic manuals.

If it's anything like my own project this game is going to grant you a new interface for playing the same kind of game you already love. an example of interface design would be something like my SWSE character sheet

Prepare to upgrade from the command promp to a full on GUI

man I wish I worked at FFG

TylerT said:

From what I can tell this game is what needs to happen, in fact I have been working on something similar for some time (it's a case of totaly unrealated simultaiuns development).

Whine and moan all you like when this drops your going to love the hell out of it. Not only are you going to love it but all your friends are going to love it.  (if they can afford it) What they are doing is a very natural next step for RPG's and is one thats going to take down the barries that are keeping these wonderful games from reaching their full potential.

Despite some slick marketing efforts on the part of WOTC role playing games are a dead or dieing industry. The skills requierd to make book RPGs work are no longer skills most people have. It's no small thing that roleplaying was big in the 70's-80's when most people understod how to read and comprhend long form diagnostic manuals.

If it's anything like my own project this game is going to grant you a new interface for playing the same kind of game you already love. an example of interface design would be something like my SWSE character sheet

Prepare to upgrade from the command promp to a full on GUI

man I wish I worked at FFG

No! My friends and i are NOT going to love it because YOU think it's a good idea because you had something similar in mind! We hate it! We ate always going to hate it! We don't know if it is a good game, indeed, and we are open to try it. MAybey we'll like the gaming experience. But there are several things that will never change no mater how good the game is! And especially not because you feel proud for doing what FFG has done.



#13 ejacobs

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:31 PM

SS,  I did not intend for my best wishes remark to be taken as a slight towards those having financial troubles, but wake up.  It is the reality of the situation.  Deny it and call names, use language prohibited by the user agreement of this site (It won't be me who reports you) and get your nickers in a twist, but I haven't said anything that isn't truth.

I won't say good luck because luck has nothing to do with it.  Sincerely, best wishes to all. 

E



#14 TylerT

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 03:10 PM

Captin' said:

 

No! My friends and i are NOT going to love it because YOU think it's a good idea because you had something similar in mind! We hate it! We ate always going to hate it! We don't know if it is a good game, indeed, and we are open to try it. MAybey we'll like the gaming experience. But there are several things that will never change no mater how good the game is! And especially not because you feel proud for doing what FFG has done.

you may hate it

it's not that i feel proud to get beeten to the punch by a large publisher. but that my experince with something similar says your going to love it. there is a chance they are doing it wrong but it looks like they are doing it right, they could probubly improve how they package and sell the product, but the product looks strong overall.

I'm mostly wondering what those puzzle pieces are on the job card? it would be neat to see an advancement system that used puzzle pieces. think of all the hierarchal rules that can be represented with various male/female connectors
 



#15 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 03:55 PM

GreyLord said:

 

Everything is going digital, and RPG's need to get to that point as well.  Gametable, and DDI were the ideas that WotC has tried to get going in that direction, and thus far...it still needs to be seen as it slowly gets improved...as it is FAR behind schedule.

 

 

RPG's are not far behind the digital technology. It is the digital technology that is way too far behind when it comes to delivering the same possibilities and experiences that RPG's can deliver.

It is the digital technology that needs to catch up with things, not the other way around...

//Varnias Tybalt - avid video gamer and roleplayer



#16 chojun

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 04:58 PM

I think this is the right thing to do and the right time to do it, also.  I'm 38 and I have played rpgs all the way back to first edition AD&D.  A couple of years ago I wanted to introduce my nephews to roleplaying games.  My nephews are heavy into video games and i didnt think that a pen and paper game would be for them.  So i did some internet research and discovered descent: journeys in the dark.  we played and we loved it.  After a couple of sessions, i formed the opinion that this was a first step in the evolution of the RPG.  If table top rpgs were to survive the world of warcraft era, then fantasy flight games were the guys to do it. By taking the visual impact and the easy to approach style they did with Descent.

Jump forward a few months to the release of fourth edition Dungeons and dragons.  i bought the rules read through them, and had a feeling that those rules were influenced by Descent.  I could be totally wrong.   both games could be trying to reach the younger video game influenced crowd.  But where 4e is clunky and quite cant admit it wants to be a video game simulation of world of warcraft and still clings to pen and paper traditions, Descent was unapologetic and jumped in with both feet.  Descent had a head start because its forerunner is Doom the boardgame which is trying to be a tabletop version of the  video game.  I couldnt help but think that FFG had leaped far ahead WOTC in table top game development that wants to appeal to the younger gamer. They had the visuals down.  there was actually something on the table to look at. There were tons of things to manipulate and pass back and forth.  loads and loads of cards and loads and loads if bits.  God love em over at FFG. 

I have played 4th edition D&D and I have to say I am not real impressed.  It over loads players with lot of non visual  card powers ( again I was reminded of what  Descent did a whole lot better) that make the game go a little cold.  In a recent game,a rpga game, I played with several players who were playing characters that were not standard fare.  They played their powers and I could not visualize what was going on.  one player  cast something called a memory hole and the other did something called an eye of doom and it went on and on.  I saw them roll damage dice, I saw them figure burst radius. we played through about the stuns and knockdowns and the poisons of various encounters.  I immediatly thought about the conditon tokens of the Descent about how I could see if some one was taking fire damage, or stunned or confused or poisoned.  You could SEE it with the tokens. You can't see anything in 4th D&D. we ran into some kind or dragon thing with a breath weapon, and I thought about the fire template. When somebody made a big attack you could see it with the different color dice. I was playing D&D and I was constantly thinking how Descent did it better and more visual, AND did it FIRST, before 4th D&D.  

Now make another jump to when FFG gained rights to the Warhammer IP as far as board and card and rp games go.  I immediatly thought about how they should use the visual lessons of Descent and apply it to this wonderful RPG.  Don't get me wrong.  Green Ronin Warhammer is a masterpeice of pen and paper design.  I'm not ever going to knock it.  But FFG can put thier own spin on it and I'm optimistic that they will do a good job.  for the people who complain that its going too be to boardgame like you need to come up with a better term.  I would describe it as a visual card and bit RPG. what would you expect from the makers of descent and arkham horror and twilight imperium?  restraint? The price tag is a FFG price tag. you will get what you paid for.  you will get a ton of  cards and dice that will only enhance the experience especially for new and younger players. 

Anyway, I have really been impressed with what FFG is doing.  I'm looking forward to seeing if the warhammer FRP will impress me like descent did.



#17 TylerT

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 05:36 AM

chojun said:

I think this is the right thing to do and the right time to do it, also.  I'm 38 and I have played rpgs all the way back to first edition AD&D.  A couple of years ago I wanted to introduce my nephews to roleplaying games.  My nephews are heavy into video games and i didnt think that a pen and paper game would be for them.  So i did some internet research and discovered descent: journeys in the dark.  we played and we loved it.  After a couple of sessions, i formed the opinion that this was a first step in the evolution of the RPG.  If table top rpgs were to survive the world of warcraft era, then fantasy flight games were the guys to do it. By taking the visual impact and the easy to approach style they did with Descent.

Anyway, I have really been impressed with what FFG is doing.  I'm looking forward to seeing if2 the warhammer FRP will impress me like descent did.

I hoped people in your situation existed, lets hope these new efforts can bring back the 70's-80's generation and bring in a whole new one.






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