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Por Ulric! Que invento es este de la 3ª edicion??


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#1 Jacques el arcabucero

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 02:18 AM

Saludos camaradas.

Me gustaría expresarme en vuestro idioma, pero estoy bastante limitado en ese aspecto y no lograría reflejar realmente lo que pienso al no ser muy fluído mi ingles, así que, que diantre! lo expresaré en mi idioma! Seguro que en esta comunidad habrán muchos que lo entiendan. Estalianos estais ahí? Bien!

Este arcabucero está realmente disgustado por lo que parece que será la tercera edición de uno de los mejores juegos de los últimos tiempos. Que diablos es esto? Un juego de tablero? cartas? montañas de dados? limitado a cuatro jugadores?

Esto no es nuevo. Se llama D&D 4ª o Talisman, o D&D de tablero, o cualqueir otra cosa, pero no Warhammer. ¿Tenemos que estar los aficionados dispuestos a tragar toda esta parafernalia innecesaria de este experimento al que llaman Warhammer 3ª?  Yo digo que no No con mi dinero!

Personalmente, no pienso pasarme a esta nueva edición que rompe con la originalidad de este juego que tan buenos resultados ha venido dando hasta ahora. ¿Que mas debemos esperar ahora? ¿Que nuevos cambios le espera al Viejomundo? ¿desaparecen los halflings? ¿Como ya hicieron los gnomos? ¿y los fimirs? y tantas otras criaturas que correteaban en nuestro mundo!

Camaradas, esto es una vergüenza, es un robo! no se ha respetado nada, se ha copiado indiscriminadamente pedazos de otros juegos, de otros sistemas. No tiene suficiente peso Warhammer como para ser exclusivo? Con la salida a la venta de este producto a ese precio desorbitado, obligarán a que cualquier editorial de otro país que quiera hacerse con sus derechos tenga que sacarlo a precios parecidos. En europa rondará los 70 euros si no más, y nuestros camaradas argentinos tendrían que pagar 382 pesos! A esto, camaradas, este Kislevita le llama Robo!

Así que ahí se pueden quedar ellos con su reluciente tercera edición. A mi, no me convence. No necesito un nuevo juego de mesa, no necesito montañas de cartas, no necesito montañas de dados nuevos, no necesito limitar mis partidas a un número de jugadores, no necesito desvirtuar algo que era completamente original.



#2 DagobahDave

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 05:41 AM

Te compadezco. (I think I'm doing that right.)

For those of you who don't read Spanish, the gist of the post is deep displeasure about the board game feel, the cards, the dice, the 4-player limit, and a sense of betrayal about what has been done to WFRP.


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#3 Artaxerxes

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 05:46 AM

DagobahDave said:

Te compadezco. (I think I'm doing that right.)

For those of you who don't read Spanish, the gist of the post is deep displeasure about the board game feel, the cards, the dice, the 4-player limit, and a sense of betrayal about what has been done to WFRP.

 

qué sorpresa

 



#4 LordofEndTimes

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 09:34 PM

Hehe, so should we all begin to talk our native tongue? that would give this community a lot more cosmopolitan feel Selvom det selvfølgelig vil betyde, at vi ikke ville kunne forstå hinanden...



#5 Jacques el arcabucero

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 10:53 PM

DagobahDave said:

Te compadezco. (I think I'm doing that right.)

For those of you who don't read Spanish, the gist of the post is deep displeasure about the board game feel, the cards, the dice, the 4-player limit, and a sense of betrayal about what has been done to WFRP.

 

Gracias camarada por la traducción!    Voy a intentarlo a ver...

I´m very displeasure for the look of this new edition. I don´t need cards or special dices to play a game which i already know. This new edition looks too much like other existing games,  In Spain, where i come, all my comrades have the same bad feeling about this game, All we, are very displeasure for this new look. If that is the new road which warhammer will follow, we don´t walk in this direction.

Therefor, goodbay Warhammer, have been a pleasure meanwhile.

Sorry for my poor english.



#6 Pierre Campan

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 11:48 PM

hello

Ola !

sorry I am french, I only speak english and Italian, never manage with spanish because it was make a terrible mixe in my brain with italien

In my opinion, as I was a tester of the 2nd edition, let's wait and give the 3rd a chance. I remember so many people complaning ... for what ... ok the 2nd is not perfect but so many books !! in such a small time !

personnaly I love the additional material (dice etc) so I am optimistic ! and by the way, we, in the old Europe we are used to change what we want and make our little special rules "because you know here we are not really french but occitant, bla, bla ! (I am from Toulouse) "

Courage !

Pierre



#7 Kani

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 06:40 AM

LordofEndTimes said:

Hehe, so should we all begin to talk our native tongue? that would give this community a lot more cosmopolitan feel Selvom det selvfølgelig vil betyde, at vi ikke ville kunne forstå hinanden...

 

Jeg forstår dig! Man må næsten antage at Warhammer er rimelig populært i germanske lande så måske er jeg ikke den eneste.



#8 LordofEndTimes

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 10:52 AM

Nej der er ret mange skandinaver herinde, hvilket jo bare er fantastisk, selv FFGs grundlægger Christian Petersen kommer fra Danmark! Så det her spil er vel pæredansk



#9 Captin'

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:00 PM

Hmmm, danskar eller norrmän? Ursäkta mig, men jag är inte särskilt bra på vardera språk i text. Jag kan dock höra skillnad lätt.



#10 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:41 PM

Captin' said:

Hmmm, danskar eller norrmän? Ursäkta mig, men jag är inte särskilt bra på vardera språk i text. Jag kan dock höra skillnad lätt.

Vad jag förstod så var det både danskar och norrmän som skrev ovanstående inlägg, men jag kan ha fel. Lite svårt att göra en distinktion mellan de båda språken ibland.

 

And because im not that kind of jerk, here's my response to Captin' in english as well:

 

"From what I could understand there were both danes and norwegians writing in the posts above, but I could be wrong. It's a bit hard to make a distinction between the two languages sometimes."

 

Hehe, feels wierd writing in swedish on these messageboards.



#11 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:45 PM

Jacques el arcabucero said:

 

Gracias camarada por la traducción!    Voy a intentarlo a ver...

I´m very displeasure for the look of this new edition. I don´t need cards or special dices to play a game which i already know. This new edition looks too much like other existing games,  In Spain, where i come, all my comrades have the same bad feeling about this game, All we, are very displeasure for this new look. If that is the new road which warhammer will follow, we don´t walk in this direction.

Therefor, goodbay Warhammer, have been a pleasure meanwhile.

Sorry for my poor english.

 

 

Why judge an RPG (which primarily takes place inside the players and the GM's head) by it's "LOOKS"!?

haven't you heard the expression: "You shouldn't judge the book by it's cover"?

Sure, this third edition isn't JUST a book, but there are books in it...

 

Oh, and here's a spanish translation. Haven't spoken (or written) the language in years, so I just used google. Tell me if it's any good? (although im quite sure it contains several grammatical errors, but I assure you that I'd pronounce it like a spansh native, because my strength really lies with pronounciation)


¿Por qué juzgar un RPG (que principalmente se lleva a cabo dentro de los jugadores y la mente Gamemasters) por su "mira"?

¿No has oído la expresión: "Usted no debe juzgar el libro por su cubierta"?

Claro, esta tercera edición no es sólo un libro, pero hay libros en la misma ...

 



#12 LordofEndTimes

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 07:59 PM

Varnias Tybalt said:

 

 

And because im not that kind of jerk, here's my response to Captin' in english as well:

 

 

 

 

Well since I don't want to be thought of as "that kind of jerk" by Varnias let me paraphrase our conversation: Kani said that he(?) understood me and that this was apparently a very popular game in the Germanic countries, and I said yes, there were a lot of Scandinavians in here- even the founder of FFG, Christian Petersen, is from the Denmark, so one could even call the game a "true" Danish game. After that Captin' asked whether the posts was in Norwegian or Danish- the answer to that is Danish. So no evil posts of Doom of Destruction, just some short comments in our mothertongue.



#13 Jacques el arcabucero

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 08:22 PM

No hay nada mejor que poderse uno expresar en su própia lengua!

Nothing is better than write in our mothertongue!

 

Varnias Tybalt said:

Why judge an RPG (which primarily takes place inside the players and the GM's head) by it's "LOOKS"!?

 

haven't you heard the expression: "You shouldn't judge the book by it's cover"?

Sure, this third edition isn't JUST a book, but there are books in it...

 

Yes, i´m judging this game for his Look. But not only! I can read the comments of the comrades, i see the changes. Special dices, mountains of cards, only for 4 players. All this looks like a boardgame. I love boargames yes! but i love too Warhammer RPG and this is not a RPG. More easy yet... if warhammer works, and works well, is necessary this huge change? Why change something works well? Warhammer is young, at least in my country, he arrive to Spain in 2005, now, 4 years after, suddenly, is old. And no more suplementos will arrive! In Spain some suplementos not arrived yet. Tome of salvation, all the campaigns, etc... sad, but true.

 

 

Oh, and here's a spanish translation. Haven't spoken (or written) the language in years, so I just used google. Tell me if it's any good? (although im quite sure it contains several grammatical errors, but I assure you that I'd pronounce it like a spansh native, because my strength really lies with pronounciation)

 

Perfecto camarada! Perfecto! tu eres español!, verdad? jejeje Mucho mejor que mi ingles! !

Tan solo una cosa "by it's "LOOKS"!?" se traduciría "por su ASPECTO"  te refieres a su apariencia, verdad?

Muchas gracias camarada!

 

 



#14 Kani

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 03:09 AM

LordofEndTimes said:

Nej der er ret mange skandinaver herinde, hvilket jo bare er fantastisk, selv FFGs grundlægger Christian Petersen kommer fra Danmark! Så det her spil er vel pæredansk

Jeg anede ikke at FFG havde nogen relation til Danmark og det kommer bag på mig! Jeg er en smule skeptisk over det han gør ved mit yndlingsrollespil men jeg venter med at blive mere end skeptisk til jeg ved mere. Så vidt jeg har forstået var WFRP2 væsentlig mere populær i Europa end i USA så det er oplagt at tænke de fleste ændringer ind i den sammenhæng af FFG ønsker at appellere mere til det amerikanske marked. Det bekymrer mig :) Jeg er ikke sikker på at man kan ramme begge målgrupper.

 

Short version in english; I'm worried that FFG is trying to appeal more to the american market than the european one (since I'm european). I'm not sure it's possible to appeal to both groups with great succes.



#15 Saratai

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 03:28 AM

You are brave Jacques, really xD.

It's true that we can't judge something only for the exterior. I don't like the advertise of this game, and the info that the developers give to us disapoint me so much. But we have to wait until the game will be in a table to say something proper about it.

Nos vemos en igarol, kislevita!



#16 egalor

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 03:35 AM

??????, ????! ???? ????!



#17 egalor

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 03:36 AM

egalor said:

 

??????, ????! ???? ????!

 

 

Wow, no support for cyrillic characters, how sad. :)



#18 Beamhit

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 03:48 AM

No to moze ja powiem pare cieplych slow po polsku. Warhammer I i II edycja nie podoba mi sie. Szkoda ze tak beznadziejna mechanika z tego systemu zostala zastosowana do Dark Heresy. Mam nadzieje ze jezeli III edycja Warhammera okaze sie przynajmniej troche grywalniejsza niz pozostale relikty z ubieglego stulecia, FFG wyda tez nowa edycje Dark Heresy :P



#19 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:09 AM

Jacques el arcabucero said:

Yes, i´m judging this game for his Look. But not only! I can read the comments of the comrades, i see the changes. Special dices, mountains of cards, only for 4 players. All this looks like a boardgame. I love boargames yes! but i love too Warhammer RPG and this is not a RPG. More easy yet... if warhammer works, and works well, is necessary this huge change? Why change something works well? Warhammer is young, at least in my country, he arrive to Spain in 2005, now, 4 years after, suddenly, is old. And no more suplementos will arrive! In Spain some suplementos not arrived yet. Tome of salvation, all the campaigns, etc... sad, but true.

Yes, it's valid to ask why someone should try to fix something that already works, although I can come up with a few reasons why.

Still, I gotta ask you: How do you and your camaradas play RPG's? What is the most important aspects of an RPG to you? Is it the grinding and character building? Is it writing stuff down on character sheets? Or is it the ROLEPLAYING bit?

Im not going to condescend anyone here for prefering other things than myself, BUT the name of the game is ROLEPLAYING GAME after all, isn't it? Shouldn't it be considered the norm that the roleplaying is of primary importance, while dungeon crawling, looting, character grinding etc. be secondary?

Sure, you might just think that my way of seeing things is a bit convenient, but it's actually quite nice for me and my friends. Since I and my friends put the most focus on roleplaying (you know, acting like another person and evolve that character's personality etc.) and creating an intriguing story, we don't suffer as much by radical changes to game mechanics or unconventional ways of administrating the RPG in question.

These new dice, cards, counters and whatnot are not of primary concern to us. They are just tools, just like a rulebook is just a tool, and a pencil is just a tool and a character sheet is just a tool. To us, RPG's are not about pencils, dice, character sheets, looting, dungeon crawling, cards, boards, GM screens etc. It's about doing your best in trying to act like you're someone else, and try to create an involving story whee cool and interesting things happen. The rest is just there to help us organize our thoughts, and I can assure you that no amount of gimmicky cards or spiffy new dice could ever make us confuse an RPG with a boardgame or a cardgame. They require such radically different ways of thinking to play.

It's up to you how you want to look at it, but please try see it the way I see it. I don't think you'll be disappointed, because my point of view pretty much guarantee that no matter how much a gaming company might brutalize and butcher game mechanics and changing rules, you'll not be very affected by it. Because then the story and the roleplaying will be the most important part, and that is more dependent on the fluff in a game rather than the rules and game mechanics. Neat huh!

 

Jacques el arcabucero said:

Perfecto camarada! Perfecto! tu eres español!, verdad? jejeje Mucho mejor que mi ingles! !

Hehe, no im not spanish. Im just vaguely familiar with the language since reading it in grade school, and like I said, I used the google translate service for the translation so most of the credit goes to that.

Still, I can understand a pretty decent amount of spanish. And my real strength lies in pronouncing other languages (even if don't really understand what the hell im saying ). In fact, my pronounciation alone gave me the second highest grade in spanish when I read it in grade school. My teacher just fell in love with how my spanish sounded.

And I've even manage to pull off a decent sounding russian and no one could tell the difference between my words and a russian native.

(excuse me if it sounds like bragging, because I don't intend to brag. It's just that it's such a wierd quirk I have. Almost a Kroot-like ability to mimic the sound of other languages)

Jacques el arcabucero said:

Tan solo una cosa "by it's "LOOKS"!?" se traduciría "por su ASPECTO"  te refieres a su apariencia, verdad?

Muchas gracias camarada!

Si, usted se referie a su apariencia

De nada, mi amigo!

 



#20 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 04:12 AM

Beamhit said:

No to moze ja powiem pare cieplych slow po polsku. Warhammer I i II edycja nie podoba mi sie. Szkoda ze tak beznadziejna mechanika z tego systemu zostala zastosowana do Dark Heresy. Mam nadzieje ze jezeli III edycja Warhammera okaze sie przynajmniej troche grywalniejsza niz pozostale relikty z ubieglego stulecia, FFG wyda tez nowa edycje Dark Heresy :P

Now im gonna take a wild guess here, but was that polish?

(it's probably russian, but somehow it looks a bit polish to me. Not too familiar with either languages )






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