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My Take On 3rd Edition


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#1 ClockworkGecko

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 02:14 PM

I'm going to keep this short and sweet without trying to tread over the dead squigs that have been stomped upon many times. However if one or two of the little buggers gets crushed, my apologies.

Like many people here I am a fan of  WHFRPG, and I am seriously not sure about this new edition. I outright refuse to join the gloom and doom bandwagon. I think that riding on it, especially when we all don't really know what we have coming is pretty damn pointless. For god-sakes take the time to see the product for yourself before you scream "it's crap", "it sucks", "it's not a RPG", "FFG has abandoned us", and all that other rot.  Please use your heads instead of freaking the @*1*# out. It's this attitude that kills games and folks, quite frankly I don't want to see WHRPG die. I can accept change, but death is right out.

That said, I will not be casting any judgement on the new rules system until I see it for myself. Who knows, it might actually be fun. We barely know anything about it, so I look at it as a new experience. The truth is that the way things have been with the 2nd edition line, the game does beg for a reprint/new edition. In many respects I am happy that they are finally going about doing this. However I am not entirely happy with the direction they are taking with the game.

I personally think it would have been a better and sensable direction and follow the successful 40K RPG model, and keep the overall system the same. The problem with WHFRPG 2 was that overall it was good. It's a good system, a good game, it has good writing and a good setting. However it's weakness lay in the fact that everything involved in the game was spread out and begged to be condensed. Not ommitted, not changed, not re-written, but condensed, and then expanded upon. Especially in regards to material that was lost in the transfer from Black Industries, stuff that remained only in manuscript, and material that was really needed to be written for the game.

However FFG seems to have chosen to go with a route intended on competing directly with D&D 4, using many new concepts, and similar lines in relation to D&D4 to gain interest.  In the long run it may work. Then again it may be a big flop. WHFRPG as it stands is a good alternative, and doesn't need to be more like D&D. That's one of the cool things about the game. However what's done is done and there is nothing that can be done unless FFG wills it.  The new system may turn out to be fun and a good time, and if it is, and it is supported well, then all this talk and complaint is moot.

There is one thing FFG could do to help make things better and help reduce the senseless "poison spitting" in the community. Offer the rulebooks/cards/dice in the game as a stand alone products for people to buy. I have to agree with the majority of people here, a $100 boxed game does not fly. The truth is the economy is bad, and people can't drop lots of cash in a visit to the game store. Even if things were better, most people would be hard pressed to buy a $100 game. $60 for a hardcover rulebook is pushing the limits, but it's understandable.  $100 is still a lot of money for most of us. Cutting a break on things will help the community better accept the new edition.

That's it from my end. The only thing I have to say at this point is a plee to FFG that when the time comes around, don't do this sort of change to the 40k line of games. Please leave them alone as is as a whole (save for logical progression). They are good as they stand.

 

 

 



#2 DagobahDave

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 04:31 PM

ClockworkGecko said:

 

However FFG seems to have chosen to go with a route intended on competing directly with D&D 4, using many new concepts, and similar lines in relation to D&D4 to gain interest.  In the long run it may work. Then again it may be a big flop. WHFRPG as it stands is a good alternative, and doesn't need to be more like D&D. That's one of the cool things about the game. However what's done is done and there is nothing that can be done unless FFG wills it.  The new system may turn out to be fun and a good time, and if it is, and it is supported well, then all this talk and complaint is moot.

 

 

I definitely think WFRP3 could be an answer and a challenge to D&D4E. WFRP1 and WFRP2 were almost the anti-D&D. If you didn't quite like what D&D was doing and you happened to get in on a WFRP game, you had a fair chance of being converted and never looking back. For me, WFRP1 was the only fantasy game I'd played that let me enjoy my character's flaws as well as their strengths. I appreciated the fact that when I looted a dead Goblin there was nothing of value in its pouches.

My hope is that WFRP3 is still that kind of a game. It needs to set itself apart from D&D by having rich social play and the ability to move at will through the world in an unstructured way, without any guarantee of reward other than the fun of telling the story.


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#3 Captin'

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 10:02 PM

Stop saying that we can't say that FFG has betrayed us. There is two facts that will never change, no matter how good the game is when it comes out.

1. 2nd will not recieve newsupport. This is ofcourse not written in stone, but what are the odds of it not happening?

2, The box costs a hundred dollars!

 



#4 Armrek

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 10:20 PM

I sort of agree, but it stil remains to be seen what this new stuff is about.

But I don't understand why FFG didn't keep WFRP 2nd Ed and improved it with smart merchandice and tools - it escapes me. Maybe e problem in the marketing department, fact is that the Fan Base has been ignored...



#5 Silent Star

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 01:57 AM

DagobahDave said:

I definitely think WFRP3 could be an answer and a challenge to D&D4E. WFRP1 and WFRP2 were almost the anti-D&D. If you didn't quite like what D&D was doing and you happened to get in on a WFRP game, you had a fair chance of being converted and never looking back.

Nothing will challenge D&D it is the daddy of all fantasy roleplaying, D&D owns generic fantasy roleplay, products come out regularly and it is well supported by the publishers. In contrast FFG are very slow to publish and have at best poor online support. This is why WFRP and most other rpg's are different to D&D, they need to be in order to attract any fans at all.



#6 42!

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 07:46 AM

Armrek said:

I sort of agree, but it stil remains to be seen what this new stuff is about.

But I don't understand why FFG didn't keep WFRP 2nd Ed and improved it with smart merchandice and tools - it escapes me. Maybe e problem in the marketing department, fact is that the Fan Base has been ignored...

I think the answer is simple economics.

Core books sell really well. Broad setting books sell somewhat less and the more specialized or niche books sell rather limited. Campaigns and adventures are mainly bought by GMs.

2ed was probably at the point in which mostly niche books were left (don't get me wrong there were lots of interesting things left to publish, but typically stuff that only completists or a select crowd would buy) and for FFG to make money of the license (which was no doubt costly) by putting out a new edition makes perfect economic sense.

With that in mind I'm really pleased they are changing the system and gameexperience as much as they seem to so it's not just a 2.5ed with a fewnew features and a bunch of mostly identical to 2ed books but a new game (so that in essence I'll have 2 games and playexperiences to choose from and not just 1).

42!



#7 Necronomicus

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 11:59 AM

With all the 1st and 2nd ED material, the fan sites, and our own imaginations. We can play 2ed forever and never need another book.  I'm open to 3rd ed, if it will provide a fresh and fun experience that I didn't have before. With 2nd. If not i've spent 100 on stupider stuff,  strippers and such.



#8 Captin'

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 12:44 PM

Necronomicus said:

With all the 1st and 2nd ED material, the fan sites, and our own imaginations. We can play 2ed forever and never need another book.  I'm open to 3rd ed, if it will provide a fresh and fun experience that I didn't have before. With 2nd. If not i've spent 100 on stupider stuff,  strippers and such.

 

Did you just call all strippers stupid? >:(



#9 The Asgardian

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 02:54 PM

Strippers aren't stupid, but Family Guy had it right :)

"Hi, I’m Peter Grifin. You know we’ve had a lot of laughs tonight, but I’ll tell you what’s not funny; killing strippers. Strippers are people too, naked people who may be willing to pleasure you for a price you negotiate later behind a curtain in the VIP room. Besides, there’s no need to kill them ‘cause most of them are already dead inside. Goodnight everyone."

 

-ashe-
 



#10 Jericho

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 04:36 AM

I play  v2 with v1 background and some houserules here and there.

I use WCoC, DS&S, MSDtR and many other v1 supplements with my v2 books.

That makes for a much enriched Old World gaming experience. And as GM, there is almost nothing the PCs can throw at me that I have no idea how to manage. That is great ! The parts from v2 I didn't like ? They just don't exist in my game.

So on the background/fluff side, I'm already a happy camper.

On the rules side, I am open for something better, so that is what I expect from v3, better rules. Simple but flexible. Useful for storytelling and suspense, yet easy to remember and apply. We'll see.

If they are better than the v2 rules, then I'll play v3, using v2 and v1 background, with maybe some houserules.

The most important thing for me is that the focus of the game stays the same, grim and gritty with a dab of dark humour. Make that a glob.

If v3 delivers that with better rules, I'll be happy to buy it.

But I'm in no hurry. 40 careers is too few, so I'll wait till v3 adds extra careers before we eventually make the switch. If it is any good, of course.


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The time of change has come!

#11 Artaxerxes

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 04:42 AM

DagobahDave said:

I definitely think WFRP3 could be an answer and a challenge to D&D4E. WFRP1 and WFRP2 were almost the anti-D&D. If you didn't quite like what D&D was doing and you happened to get in on a WFRP game, you had a fair chance of being converted and never looking back. For me, WFRP1 was the only fantasy game I'd played that let me enjoy my character's flaws as well as their strengths. I appreciated the fact that when I looted a dead Goblin there was nothing of value in its pouches.

A far better to game to challenge D&D would have been 40k. Its market share and appeal is a lot bigger than Warhammer Fantasy which has seen its userbase dropping off a lot. Its also got a huge brand recognition, ask people in the street if they've heard of 40k and I can assure you every male you ask will have heard of it at some point in there lives, even if they dont or havent played it.

By being sci-fi it also tempts people away from D&D, opening up yet another market for the game.

Hell... WFRP3 was more or less what I *expected* from the 40k systems being introduced back in 2006.



#12 DagobahDave

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 08:21 AM

I wouldn't expect WFRP3 to challenge D&D in the marketplace, but I do think that if the V3 design is successful it's going to challenge D&D and other games to create a similar experience.

I agree that 40KRP would've been a better challenge! I'm hoping that Deathwatch benefits from whatever we learn about playing V3, one way or another. It'll be interesting to see if FFG even considers breaking away from the pattern established by DH or RT.


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