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An Interesting Idea yes/no


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#1 Talex

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 01:50 PM

 I was just thinking by combining the rogue trader Core book and some of the DH source books (Radicals Handbook) you could get an interesting game. A rogue trader and his crew are corupted by the warp and the powers of chaos, so they have daemon weapons and daemonhosts. They have to attack imperial worlds, shipping lanes, general chaosy piracy. Instead of Profit you could have notoriety. As you inflict more acts of terrorism and piracy your notoriety grows and you become more infavouse and other followers of chaos will join you. But beware, become to much of a threat and the Imperial Navy will hunt you and maybe an Inquisitor will be sent your way (Use Ascention). This would alow you to express your evil side and RP essentially a chaos cult...with a starship.

Anyway just an idea so what do you think



#2 DarkPrimus

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 08:54 PM

I think you would run into the same problems you'd have running an Evil campaign in D&D, or any other setting for that matter: Making sure the game isn't just "Shenanigans for the hell of it because we're evil".


That said, if you can find a solid group of players who can provide actual reasoning for their actions, it'd make an interesting campaign (though I still don't think it'd last as long as a more conventional setting would). And hey, depending on what Ruinous Power they're allied with, it could be quite different from what you might expect.



#3 numb3rc

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 05:03 AM

I don't think you should eliminate profit entirely because after all, you can't buy things with notoriety. Sounds like it could be a little fun but they would almost inevitably lose control of one of the daemons and eventually become playthings of the warp or be eliminated by an Imperial Navy taskforce, perhaps with Inquisitorial help. But it could be a fun ride.



#4 Kaihlik

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 06:29 AM

Making sure the game isn't just "Shenanigans for the hell of it because we're evil".

Don't knock it till you've tried it. We once did a WFRP game where we played a cultist from each Chaos god (and undivided) with a madate from Belakor himself to destroy them Empire in the name of the chaos gods (yes I know it was silly but it worked as a vessel for the game). It didn't last long because one of the players could't make it but it was a hell of a lot of fun while it lasted. As the nurgle player I created a spawn, killed the cult of Morr and suplanted them with...me and ammased a small but loyal fanbase, of ghouls. At the end of the week we would be summoned back and depending on how far we had advanced our cause the more we were rewarded. If we were deemed inadequit we would be set tasks that would force us to do better. If we caused the death of one of the other players then they had to reroll as a cultist of our god (it wasn't the point of the game though so we didn't go after each other for no reason).

If all players are on board with the idea and you create a framework and understanding between the players of what the game is about, shenanigins for the hell of it because we are evil can be a great game.

Kaihlik
 



#5 Talex

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 07:53 AM

numb3rc said:

or be eliminated by an Imperial Navy taskforce, perhaps with Inquisitorial help. 

This could be a failsafe if people get bored and want to move on to somthing new. But aslong as the ending was suitably climatic, your rogue fleet meeting a navy taskforce, your forces and ships destroyed but not without cripling the navy. Ending in an enemy boarding action, navy forces and an inquisitor storming your bridge...



#6 DarkPrimus

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Posted 15 August 2009 - 05:02 PM

Talex said:

numb3rc said:

 

or be eliminated by an Imperial Navy taskforce, perhaps with Inquisitorial help. 

 

 

This could be a failsafe if people get bored and want to move on to somthing new. But aslong as the ending was suitably climatic, your rogue fleet meeting a navy taskforce, your forces and ships destroyed but not without cripling the navy. Ending in an enemy boarding action, navy forces and an inquisitor storming your bridge...

As I said, I doubt the campaign could run for very long before reach a critical mass of some sort... but dying in one final epic blast of glory is certainly not something your players would hate.



#7 ECLIPSE1970

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 10:59 AM

Yea! Going out with guns blazing would be a very fine end or some shocking revelation ala one of your crew mates is an Imperial agent undercover i.e. the end of Blakes 7.



#8 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 11:09 AM

DarkPrimus said:

I think you would run into the same problems you'd have running an Evil campaign in D&D, or any other setting for that matter: Making sure the game isn't just "Shenanigans for the hell of it because we're evil".

Remember that the setting in DnD is pretty different from 40K. In DnD you could live out your days happily as a farmer on green meadows on the beautiflu countryside if you wanted. That would not be as easi in 40K however.

There are plenty of motivations to stoop to radicalism in 40K. In fact the fluff oftently describe it as being hard to stay away from dabbling in the forbidden, wether it be reasearch of the warp, usage of daemonhosts, trading in xenos tech etc.



#9 DarkPrimus

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 07:46 PM

Varnias Tybalt said:

DarkPrimus said:

 

I think you would run into the same problems you'd have running an Evil campaign in D&D, or any other setting for that matter: Making sure the game isn't just "Shenanigans for the hell of it because we're evil".

 

 

Remember that the setting in DnD is pretty different from 40K. In DnD you could live out your days happily as a farmer on green meadows on the beautiflu countryside if you wanted. That would not be as easi in 40K however.

There are plenty of motivations to stoop to radicalism in 40K. In fact the fluff oftently describe it as being hard to stay away from dabbling in the forbidden, wether it be reasearch of the warp, usage of daemonhosts, trading in xenos tech etc.

There's quite a difference between radicalism as defined by the Inquisition, and willingly serving the forces of Chaos, which is what the OP was talking about. So my point still stands.



#10 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 05:28 AM

DarkPrimus said:

 

 

There's quite a difference between radicalism as defined by the Inquisition, and willingly serving the forces of Chaos, which is what the OP was talking about. So my point still stands.

Perhaps you're familiar with the saying: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions?"

Also, willingly serve the forces of Chaos doesn't necessarily mean that your character has an innate evil wish to drink the blood of young puppies or murder thousands of innocent people only to please Khorne. In fact, I'd say it's quite rare for people to willingly serve the Chaos gods from the very beginning. It just starts with something, and then a Dark Pact is struck somewhere down the line, and the more and more you will owe the forces of Chaos something, and they'll get you to commit worse and worse atrocities that finally your sanity gives out and you'll become the puppet of the warp.

But it all just started with a normal person that wanted something out of his or her reach. Perhaps it was eternal youth? Perhaps it was extreme wealth? Perhaps it was trying to save a dying loved one from certain death due to disease?

These "ambitions" if you will, have a way of shining brightly in the warp, and sometimes a daemon might heed the call and put into motion it's machinations in trying to strike a Dark Pact. Perhaps through using his other corrupt puppets in making sure that this person who has a wish get a hold of the means of contacting the daemon. Perhaps by "accidentally" dropping an old book describing daemonic rituals outside the door of the person with a wish's home or some other insidious plan?

It's a matter of desperation really. Make sure a person is desparate enough and that person will do whatever you ask of them, as long as you start out small in your requests (like perhaps steal a trinket or fool someone into giving his money away), then you can move on to worse things like sacrificing virgins in the name of a Chaos god or commit all sorts of terrorism. The victim's sanity and purity will slowly wither away, and the more insane an corrupt that person get's the more willing he or she will be to serve their dark masters.



#11 DocIII

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 06:18 AM

I've always liked making them do evil by convincing them its good.

Why let your minions know you're an evil chaos sorcerer when you can get them to fulfill your nefarious plans while singing hymns to the emperor and thinking you're a swell guy?



#12 Talex

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 06:21 AM

Varnias Tybalt said:

DarkPrimus said:

 

 

 

There's quite a difference between radicalism as defined by the Inquisition, and willingly serving the forces of Chaos, which is what the OP was talking about. So my point still stands.

 

 

Perhaps you're familiar with the saying: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions?"

Also, willingly serve the forces of Chaos doesn't necessarily mean that your character has an innate evil wish to drink the blood of young puppies or murder thousands of innocent people only to please Khorne. In fact, I'd say it's quite rare for people to willingly serve the Chaos gods from the very beginning. It just starts with something, and then a Dark Pact is struck somewhere down the line, and the more and more you will owe the forces of Chaos something, and they'll get you to commit worse and worse atrocities that finally your sanity gives out and you'll become the puppet of the warp.

But it all just started with a normal person that wanted something out of his or her reach. Perhaps it was eternal youth? Perhaps it was extreme wealth? Perhaps it was trying to save a dying loved one from certain death due to disease?

These "ambitions" if you will, have a way of shining brightly in the warp, and sometimes a daemon might heed the call and put into motion it's machinations in trying to strike a Dark Pact. Perhaps through using his other corrupt puppets in making sure that this person who has a wish get a hold of the means of contacting the daemon. Perhaps by "accidentally" dropping an old book describing daemonic rituals outside the door of the person with a wish's home or some other insidious plan?

It's a matter of desperation really. Make sure a person is desparate enough and that person will do whatever you ask of them, as long as you start out small in your requests (like perhaps steal a trinket or fool someone into giving his money away), then you can move on to worse things like sacrificing virgins in the name of a Chaos god or commit all sorts of terrorism. The victim's sanity and purity will slowly wither away, and the more insane an corrupt that person get's the more willing he or she will be to serve their dark masters.

Varnias Tybalt said:

These "ambitions" if you will, have a way of shining brightly in the warp, and sometimes a daemon might heed the call and put into motion it's machinations in trying to strike a Dark Pact. Perhaps through using his other corrupt puppets in making sure that this person who has a wish get a hold of the means of contacting the daemon. 

Heh, Ambition Knows No Bounds



#13 Maxim C. Gatling

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Posted 20 August 2009 - 11:45 AM

Who's really "good" in the 40k Universe, anyway?

The Imperium?  Fascists bent on domination, fanatical cultists worshipping an undead Emperor?  Slavery, euthenasia, genocide...it's all good.

Chaos? Power-crazed maniacs engaging in darkest sorcery?

Tau?  The "Greater Good" includes slowly eroding the populations of their conquests, convincing them to fight on their side while systematically denying them rights and sterilizing them.  It's still racist genocide, it just takes longer.

Eldar?  Selfish, uppity, conceited biotches?  Totally uncaring of anyone who gets in the way?

Orks?  KILLKILLKILL?

Necrons?

So the theory that having an "evil" party won't work doesn't quite cut it.  To be honest, it's hard to get my players to act "Imperial".  They keep dishing out mercy to mutants, witches and Xenos....and doing the "right thing" despite when the obvious "Imperial" right thing would be to purge with flame and slaughter without mercy....



#14 DocIII

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 08:56 AM

Maxim C. Gatling said:

Tau?  The "Greater Good" includes slowly eroding the populations of their conquests, convincing them to fight on their side while systematically denying them rights and sterilizing them.  It's still racist genocide, it just takes longer.

Best description of Tau ever.



#15 Talex

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 09:35 AM

 Personaly what sold the Tau as 'not as nice as everyone thinks' was my first look at the Tau empire book.

Tau first contact

1.) Descover planet with sentient, intelligent life

2.) Send out Water cast Envoys, who tell the locals the wonders of the Tau empire and invite them to join.

3.) If they refuse send out Fire Cast Envoys to show them the power and majesty of the Tau armies and tell them to join the Tau or be destroyed

4.) If they STILL refuse, bombard population centres from high orbit, as to encure no loss of life

5.) Once most of the locals are dead begin colonistion

 

 



#16 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 23 August 2009 - 01:04 PM

Talex said:

 Personaly what sold the Tau as 'not as nice as everyone thinks' was my first look at the Tau empire book.

Tau first contact

1.) Descover planet with sentient, intelligent life

2.) Send out Water cast Envoys, who tell the locals the wonders of the Tau empire and invite them to join.

3.) If they refuse send out Fire Cast Envoys to show them the power and majesty of the Tau armies and tell them to join the Tau or be destroyed

4.) If they STILL refuse, bombard population centres from high orbit, as to encure no loss of life

5.) Once most of the locals are dead begin colonistion

 

Tau Diplomacy in action - they ask nicely, shoot you in the knees if you refuse, ask nicely again, and then shoot you in the face.


Writing Credits for Fantasy Flight Games: Into the Storm, Edge of the Abyss, Battlefleet Koronus, Hostile Acquisitions, Black Crusade Core Rulebook, First Founding, The Jericho Reach, The Soul Reaver, Only War, The Navis Primer,Ark of Lost Souls, and Hammer of the Emperor

I no longer write for, or am employed by, Fantasy Flight Games in any fashion. All of my comments are my own, and do not reflect the opinions of any employer, past, present, or future.

#17 jareddm

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Posted 24 August 2009 - 04:39 AM

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Talex said:

 

 Personaly what sold the Tau as 'not as nice as everyone thinks' was my first look at the Tau empire book.

Tau first contact

1.) Descover planet with sentient, intelligent life

2.) Send out Water cast Envoys, who tell the locals the wonders of the Tau empire and invite them to join.

3.) If they refuse send out Fire Cast Envoys to show them the power and majesty of the Tau armies and tell them to join the Tau or be destroyed

4.) If they STILL refuse, bombard population centres from high orbit, as to encure no loss of life

5.) Once most of the locals are dead begin colonistion

 

 

 

Tau Diplomacy in action - they ask nicely, shoot you in the knees if you refuse, ask nicely again, and then shoot you in the face.

Well they are still an empire.  And I've never heard of an empire in all of history that didn't make, "Subjugating the locals" a priority.



#18 Maxim C. Gatling

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Posted 25 August 2009 - 11:58 AM

The Tau are just like the Interstellar Concordium in Star Fleet Battles.  In order to bring peace and prosperity to the Galaxy, we're going to Conquer EVERYONE and enforce Peace and Prosperity.

Socialism in action.  The Gub'ment knows what's best for you.



#19 Psion

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Posted 26 August 2009 - 04:59 PM

Maxim C. Gatling said:

The Tau are just like the Interstellar Concordium in Star Fleet Battles.  In order to bring peace and prosperity to the Galaxy, we're going to Conquer EVERYONE and enforce Peace and Prosperity.

Socialism in action.  The Gub'ment knows what's best for you.

Warhammer 40k, where theocratic facists, concieted racists, and alien socialists are the GOOD guys because the bad guys are Cuthulu, homicidal fungus, and face-eating xenomorphs. =P






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