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played 1st edition, now I'm interested in 3rd edition

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#1 Kravel



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Posted 13 August 2009 - 03:22 AM

I played 1st edition Warhammer and bought 2nd edition but never played it. I have players who don't like the roll under % mechanic of Warhammer RPG and it wasn't worth fighting over in my opinion. The fact that both versions of WFRP were out of print didn't help me make a case for playing either edition at the time either.

I'm running D&D 4E right now and it is a lot of work for both the players and myself (most of us are married, have kids, jobs etc.). Running a game, as fun as it is, just involves a lot of paperwork.

Wizards wanted to "solve' this problem (my opinion, not a quote from Wizards) with on online subscription for character building (I think about $12 a month now) which I'm too cheap to pay for. I payed $105 dollars (minus 30% online) for my core D&D books and I've bought three more, bringing my total up to $210 (minus a discount or two) to play my current game (I already had minis and mats and fiddly board game bits which are pretty much needed to play 4E). I don't want an online subscription, even if it makes my life easier.

If Warhammer 3rd edition stays a roleplaying game (I haven't seen the rules but I see careers, and a GM, skills, and a shared story all of which sounds like an RPG to me) and allows for easier character and adventure management then it would be worth $100 (plus more for the extra player kit or two I'd need). 'Cause the paperwork for rpgs involves a lot of time; it's the actual gameplay we enjoy. If I can avoid an online subscription, have an easier time with paperwork, and still get to enjoy roleplaying in the world of Warhammer than I'd say the game will be a winner.

Having mechanics for a party of heroes would help too. D&D 4E has a bunch of independent classes and the party creation is always a challenge (or hassle perhaps is a better word). So Warhammer 3rd edition would have a new option my other two versions don't have, which sounds good to me.

And dropping the % system, hard as it is try a change and assumig the new dice pool works well, will help me lure in new players who don't like the roll under mechanic of 1st and 2nd edition. That would be six new players to keep Warhammer alive if we liked the new system.

That is all assuming the players can make their own character with his or her own history and the GM can make his or her own adventures. Which, if the game is an rpg as it claims to be, I'll assume will be possible.

#2 mac40k



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Posted 13 August 2009 - 05:46 AM

I'm with you. My longest running and most successful campaign was WFRP 1e. While I bought 2e, I never got around to playing it; too many other irons in the fire. Now unlike the other doomsayers this board is rampant with, I think FFG knows exactly what they are doing with 3e.

Way back during my 1e days, I hand-typed all the skills into a word processor (back before access to scanner/OCR tech) so I could print out individual skill lists for my players so they wouldn't have to reference the rule book during play. When WotC released D&D4e, one of the early complaints was all the powers and a desire for them to be available as cards. WotC heard and started producing the powers as cards, but only after several fan-made power card programs were available on the Internet. FFG has taken all the Skills/Talents/etc. and printed them on cards rather than in a book? Brilliant!

The Core Set costs $100. Obviously the GM needs the Core set, which is pretty close in price to the 3 core D&D books. This has enough components for a GM and 3 players. Additional Adventurer's Toolkits are needed to add more players. While we don't yet know how much these will cost, something around the cost of the D&D PH would not be unreasonable. Not all D&D players have their own copy of the PH, but of the 3 core books, I'd expect that this one sells the most since it is the one targeted at Players rather than the DM. Unlike other RPGs, note that the WFRP 3e core set truly has everything needed for a group of 4 to play. A new player doesn't have to own/buy dice; they're in the box. You don't need glass beads, poker chips, or some other item to track fortune/fate points, there are counters for that. How many people put their character sheet for other games in a document protector just so you can use a transparency marker to track wounds rather than using a pencil on the bare sheet? So if FFG includes a stack of counters to track wounds, it's not only easy to use, it's pretty obvious even from across the table if another player is low on wounds. Now I don't know for sure that there are all these counters in the box, but since it's FFG, I think it is more likely than not.

After an initial release, what are the products that an RPG company can release to generate on-going revenue? In the past this has been largely adventures and setting books. These are primarily aimed at GMs and not all GMs will buy every book. Players generally have to buy nothing. Books that combine GM and player bits have their own set of problems. Attempts to market character splatbooks to players have been tried, but they have the  problem in that, if there are say 8 character types, each book will only appeal to a fraction of the player base. WotC has opted for multiple PH's with multiple new character types in each book in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience. In any case, over time the rules are spread over so many books that you may spend more time looking up references than playing. So, FFG's card based strategy is again brilliant. In addition to the Adventurer's Toolkits that will allow additional players, they can release new careers as expansions with new cards (and possibly new dice types) that will (hopefully) appeal to a broad player base, but doesn't cause the same problems a stack of books does since all the cards needed by the player during play are right in front of him. GM unfamiliar with a new Skill or ability? Just pass him the card. No more wasted time looking it up in one of several reference books, after you determine which book the ability is in. Note that this doesn't preclude FFG from releasing adventures, setting books, and the other material traditionally aimed at GMs either, it just gives them an on-going way to market product to the much larger player segment of the population better.

As for the dice pool mechanic with the strange symbols, I'll have to wait and see how this actually works, but just because it isn't the familiar percentile system we're used to doesn't automatically make it bad. From the ranged attack card pic we can see that to get a +2 on the attack you need 3 hammers. Now that implies that you have to roll at least 3 dice. This also increases your odds of rolling two skulls which is a negative outcome. This is a neat approach to adding a risk/reward mechanic to the traditional dice toss. Do you take the greater risk looking to score that bonus damage or play it safe and roll a single die knowing the best you can do is normal damage? Plus you can have other mechanics that grant additional dice, subtract dice, or allow rerolls, on top of traditional static bonuses to results.

#3 ejacobs



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Posted 13 August 2009 - 01:26 PM

Well said.  100 bucks is nothing but a drop in the bucket when you look at core books, supplements, online subscriptions, dice, and all the other stuff you buy to support other RPG's.  I'm waiting to see, but my wallet is already starting to feel lighter.  And that's okay.  I'll earn more.  lol



#4 Emirikol


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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:31 PM

Now you can pick the game up on the cheap!



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