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Couple more rules questions (Valkia the Bloody, hand size)


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#1 Noisy_Marine

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 04:43 PM

Is damage assigned to a card but NOT applied to the card considered to be on it?  E.g. I have Valkia in my quest zone.  In combat, my opponent assigns 4 damage to her, enough to remove the card.  Can I trigger her ability by paying 2 resources before damage is APPLIED to shunt the damage to target corrupted unit (Assuming one is available)?

 

Secondly, I didn't see any mention of maximum hand size, so I guess there isn't one?

 

 



#2 Marius

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 11:20 PM

Valkia the Bloody

The damage needs to be ON the unit to be moved, and it's applied at the same time. So, I don't think you can shunt it of, if more than 4 damage is applied to her.

And no, there is no max. hand size.



#3 jogo

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 01:24 AM

No, it is not applied, in the time it is assigned.

So:
Assign Damage
Take Actions: Move the damage
Apply damage: Probably not enough to kill the unit

The only exception, that prevents taking actions between assign and apply is counterstrike, which is applied, as it is assigned.

 



#4 Mig el Pig

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 01:31 AM

Yes.

 

Counterstrike does seem like a very powerfull ability.



#5 Noisy_Marine

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 08:59 AM

Ah ha!  So Valkia will be hard to kill as long as you have a corrupted unit around.  I like it!



#6 Ruvion

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 01:17 PM

I have to agree with Marius there.

I do not believe that Valkia's ability work like the Toughness keyword like some posters seemed to think. Her ability should kick in AFTER damage is applied since the card text does NOT say "move any number of damage assigned to or on this unit," but rather "move any number of damage on this unit." Damage tokens are simply placed beside a target card when they are first assigned (page 12 of rulebook: Damage tokens are placed near the card(s) to which the damage is being assigned...). This means damage tokens are not yet placed on the card during assignment of damage step. Now the Toughness keyword on page 16 refers to: the Toughness keyword cancels its numeric value of that damage BEFORE the damage is applied. This cancellation of damage happens in between the steps of assignment and application of damage. Valkia's ability however is an action. Actions can be taken at the end of each of the 5 steps in the Battlefield Phase, which includes steps when damage is assigned and after damage is applied. However, Valkia's text saying "damage on this unit" implies that damage has been applied already and placed on the unit. Therefore this action cannot come as a cancellation interrupt like Toughness.

What I'm saying here in a longwinded way is that: her ability is an action that triggers after damage is placed on her, which is the latter part of step 5 of Battlefield Phase and it is certainly not a cancellation like the Toughness keyword, which occurs between step 4 and step 5.

If this interpretation is true, then most will ignore her when there are corrupted units lying around, unless one can deal enough damage to take care of her permanently. Which still makes her interesting if there are ways to block some damage (preventing a kill) or transfer damage from allies.
 



#7 Noisy_Marine

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 03:22 PM

it makes sense to me that you can't use the ability to prevent damage that would kill her.  That would make Valkia  very powerful.  From what I've seen there aren't any uber cards in this game (*cough* Hypnotic Specter *cough*).



#8 rings

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 04:20 PM

Since it is a seperate action, after the other has resolved I would be surpised. 

 

THey would word it as a response if you could, it would seem!

 

But this game has more of a stack than other FFG card games, so it could go either way.


Oh, King eh? Very nice...

#9 jogo

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 01:18 AM

Ruvion said:

 

What I'm saying here in a longwinded way is that: her ability is an action that triggers after damage is placed on her, which is the latter part of step 5 of Battlefield Phase and it is certainly not a cancellation like the Toughness keyword, which occurs between step 4 and step 5.

 

 

I dont find a sentence, when the damage is actually moved on the unit.

Edit: Ah, in the example is one: "All damage that was assigned to a unit or section is now moved onto that unit or section." FFG is good at protecting important things to be viewed.

Considering that I would now agree with your conclusion.



#10 Marius

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Posted 12 August 2009 - 01:32 AM

Noisy_Marine said:

it makes sense to me that you can't use the ability to prevent damage that would kill her.  That would make Valkia  very powerful.  From what I've seen there aren't any uber cards in this game (*cough* Hypnotic Specter *cough*).

If you mean the M:tG hypnotic specter, look at the rules for 'Scout' ;)

As for Valkia, if there would be direct damage to one target, you can use Valkia to spread up to 3 wounds around corrupted targets. Or you can find ways to prevent excess damage or find ways to increase her hitpoints.






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