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#1 schoon

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 05:03 AM

At the Yahoo Group, Andrea mentioned that the next two squadron packs for DoW would be (I'm guessing working titles):

  • Last Biplanes
  • Revolution in the Sky

These sound really cool, and I'm really looking forward to them.



#2 afilter

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 05:45 AM

schoon said:

At the Yahoo Group, Andrea mentioned that the next two squadron packs for DoW would be (I'm guessing working titles):

  • Last Biplanes
  • Revolution in the Sky

These sound really cool, and I'm really looking forward to them.

Hmmm...this does not seem to fit with previous Squadron packs. 

I am really hoping for something to go along with the Fire from the Sky set.  With only one of each manuever deck for the fighters and two "I" decks for the dive bombers you are really limited to what you can do without buying additioal sets.  Maybe the Revolution in the sky will fill this need.



#3 kaufschtick

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 03:49 PM

Well, these booster packs can still contain, and most likely will, additional maneuver decks from Fire from the Sky. They may just have different aircraft.  



#4 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 10 August 2009 - 09:00 PM

Hmm, let us see now. Biplanes will include Gloster gladiator and the Swordfish. Most likely one of the fiat biplanes also but I am not so sure about german and jap planes, germans did have some biplanes in the early 30s but I can't remember a single one they used in the war.

As for the other my guess is Me 262, Me 163, possible Do 335. Gloster meteor and Lockheed P80 Shooting star.

I am not so sure about releasing the biplanes this early, even if the Gladiator had some success in finland and was used in Malta it is not as widely used as many other planes we should have. The other pack is of course a must :)



#5 afilter

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 01:57 AM

Pour Le Merite said:

As for the other my guess is Me 262, Me 163, possible Do 335. Gloster meteor and Lockheed P80 Shooting star.

 

Unless you have seen some notes from designers to the contrary I highly doubt we will see any of the fast planes for a while.  I think these pose a problem for current movement rules as they move to fast in comparison to the current planes.  My guess is we will either see larger manuever cards for these planes or special rules that allow multiple cards per move phase with more cards per manuever deck.  Either way I would speculate they will be released in a boxed set with expanded rules not a squadron pack.



#6 kaufschtick

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 04:14 AM

Hmm, wait a minute. Maybe they will have new maneuver decks with the booster packs for FftS? 

The biplanes should, now that i think about it. A little slower and a little more maneuverable that the other planes we have so far in the WWII ranks.  The boosters from DoW had three decks in each one, all duplicates from DoW...maybe these boosters will have one new maneuver deck for the new planes they introduce, and two duplicate decks from FftS.

Like maybe the Last of the Biplanes will have a new "J" deck (?), and an extra E & F deck, and the other booster (Revolutions in the Sky) will have a new "K" deck (?), with an extra G & H deck in it.

Jets? I think I read over on BGG that the planes with speeds of 400mph+ were going to have a new movement mechanic in the game that has yet to be developed.

There was mention of the I-16 associated with the revolutions booster, leading one to imagine this pack would be tied to the Spanish Civil War. I-16s & Me-109Bs?



#7 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 09:00 AM

What other than jets and rocket planes could revolution in the sky mean?

And yes, Me 163 comet is not a jet but a rocket plane.

But the speed do makes things complicated, already with planes like P51 the cards get kinda small. Heck, the Me 262 did break the sound wall once in 1944 during a steep dive, there have been a lot of talk about it but computer simulations did prove that it was possible and the german pilot did most likely tell the truth. An the Comet was just 5 km/h under that when the yanks tested it (near Roswell BTW, a certain famous crash there could have been a comet).

But I don't see a WW2 doghfight game without the Me 262, it would be like if the WW1 game didn't have Fokker DVII. It is a must and I am sure our game designers works on it :)



#8 schoon

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 03:57 PM

kaufschtick said:

There was mention of the I-16 associated with the revolutions booster, leading one to imagine this pack would be tied to the Spanish Civil War. I-16s & Me-109Bs?

...or you could use them for I-16s vs. Fokker D.XXIs!



#9 schoon

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 03:59 PM

Pour Le Merite said:

What other than jets and rocket planes could revolution in the sky mean?

I strongly suspect it means the Russian Air Force.



#10 kaufschtick

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 06:03 PM

Pour Le Merite said:

 

What other than jets and rocket planes could revolution in the sky mean?

 

 

 The following is a partial quote from a post over on BGG:

"KDuke said =The Wings of War WWII series, that now includes the game set The Dawn of World War II and the Squadron Pack expansions Flying Legend and Eagles of the Reich, will grow with a new game set, Fire from Sky, and two expansions, The Last Biplanes and Revolution in the Skies. The set Fire from Sky, scheduled for a May release, will introduce new planes and dive bombers such as the Junker Ju-87 Stuka, Dauntless and Aichi. The upcoming expansions, expected to be released in August, will present additional planes like the Gloster Gladiator and Fiat CR 42 Falco, in The Last Biplanes Squadron Pack; and Polikarpov I-16, in the Revolution in the Skies Squadron Pack.

The Wings of War WWII Miniatures Deluxe Set is scheduled for a July release, and the second series of airplane packs will be released in October, and will present the Hawker Hurricane, Dewoitine D.520, Junkers Ju.87 "Stuka" and Aichi D3A1 Val, each in 3 different painting schemes."

The I-16 was actually both a biplane and a monoplane, in different variations, if I remember right. To make mention of a booster (squadron) pack called Revolutions in the Sky, and mention the I-16...well, that plane is a far cry from a jet, to say the least.

I would have to say that the revolution that is being referred to here is the revolution from biplanes to monoplanes, as opposed to the advancement from prop driven aircraft to jets. Although you could certainly say that that was a revolution as well. 

In other threads on BGG, Angiolillo had a couple comments about the planes with a 400mph+ speed using a new and modified movement system that hasn't been fully developed yet. So I would guess that the jets are going to be some time down the road after we see the likes of planes such as the Mustang, and others like it.



#11 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 11:48 PM

kaufschtick said:

I would have to say that the revolution that is being referred to here is the revolution from biplanes to monoplanes, as opposed to the advancement from prop driven aircraft to jets. Although you could certainly say that that was a revolution as well. 

In other threads on BGG, Angiolillo had a couple comments about the planes with a 400mph+ speed using a new and modified movement system that hasn't been fully developed yet. So I would guess that the jets are going to be some time down the road after we see the likes of planes such as the Mustang, and others like it.

Uhm, first succeful fighter plane ever: Fokker EIII (by succeful I mean actually impacted the war).+The first all metal monoplanes were made by Junkers and used in 1918. So calling monoplane fighters a revolution seems a bit overdramatic since quite a lot monoplanes were involved in WW1 (I can count everyone if you want to).

The planes in WW2 was faster of course but actually calling them a revolution is wrong because they slowly got better as the engines got better. We are not talking about a development like "Wright flyer->Vickers gunbus->Supermarine Spitfire" here. Planes gradually got better and during the 20s and 30s both monoplanes and biplanes was around until slowly the monoplanes become the norm.

A revolution is when something totaly change, like when the jets came around, in a few years were almost all planes jets.

Funny enough were rockets not a revolution during WW2 either, at least not on planes (V2 is another matter). The french used rockets already in 1916. And canons on planes? Spad XII had a canon 1917. So we are just talking evolution here, not revolution.

The first thing that totaly changed everything after the Wright brothers were jets. After that it was computerized planes (with or without a pilot, now you can get planes in the air that would be impossible to pilot without the computer). Everything else is just slow evolution.

Of course our game creators might not agree on me in this but I still think a better name is needed unless we are talking jets here.



#12 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 11 August 2009 - 11:52 PM

schoon said:

kaufschtick said:

There was mention of the I-16 associated with the revolutions booster, leading one to imagine this pack would be tied to the Spanish Civil War. I-16s & Me-109Bs?

 

...or you could use them for I-16s vs. Fokker D.XXIs!

That is fine if we are talking about the air war over russia in 1919, would make a great Wow campaign, the british sent a lot of Sopwith Snipes there. But by WW2 the revolution were gone since many years and Lenin dead, calling a russian WW2 pack for revolution in the air is almost as odd as calling a french pack for that.

"The eastern front" or something like that would be a lot more likely.



#13 csadn

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 10:21 AM

Pour Le Merite said:

Hmm, let us see now. Biplanes will include Gloster gladiator and the Swordfish. Most likely one of the fiat biplanes also but I am not so sure about german and jap planes, germans did have some biplanes in the early 30s but I can't remember a single one they used in the war.

Henschel Hs123 -- mainly used in ground-attack work, so would fit in with _FftS_.

The Fiat was the Cr.42.

Japan had biplanes for observation work (Nakajima E8N; Mitsubishi F1M) and bombing (Aichi D1A, out-of-service '42), but the fighters were all monoplanes by the time WW2 started.



#14 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 13 August 2009 - 09:26 PM

csadn said:

 

Pour Le Merite said:

 

Hmm, let us see now. Biplanes will include Gloster gladiator and the Swordfish. Most likely one of the fiat biplanes also but I am not so sure about german and jap planes, germans did have some biplanes in the early 30s but I can't remember a single one they used in the war.

 

 

Henschel Hs123 -- mainly used in ground-attack work, so would fit in with _FftS_.

The Fiat was the Cr.42.

Japan had biplanes for observation work (Nakajima E8N; Mitsubishi F1M) and bombing (Aichi D1A, out-of-service '42), but the fighters were all monoplanes by the time WW2 started.

 

 

The Hs123 was a dive bomber but Ju 87 Stuka replaced it already in 1937.However was a single unit used against the polish with good results. It was used as a close suport plane until 1944 on the eastern front. It was considered a failure in the spanish civil war however where its small bombs did very little damage.

So yes, the henshel could be one of the planes but it should really be released a lot later because many of the most used planes are not in yet. Where is my Mosquito or P51? It would be more logical to be focusing on one of them instead. But of course I think the biplanes should be a far later expansion, few of them did have much of an impact on the war.

But of course is the prioritys of our game designer and my opinion not the same. I want all the mostly used planes first and the odder one after the rest have been released.






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