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Mina's special ability and drawing no cards


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#1 wraith

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 01:11 AM

This topic is inspired by a discussion on BoardGameGeek, but I figure there's more chance of an official clarification here. (I'm pretty sure the old FFG site had a means to ask questions of an FFG representative, but there doesn't seem to be one available now.)

We know that there are cases in which a hunter resupplies without actually drawing any cards. If a hunter resupplies in Castle Dracula, no cards are drawn, and a character might resupply in a small city but decline to draw an event card (for fear of it helping Dracula). It is rarer, but a hunter might even choose to draw no cards at all in a large city or the Hospital of St. Joseph and St. Mary (perhaps wanting to avoid disturbing the distribution of cards in the Item deck).

However, my question: In those instances when Mina Harker resupplies without drawing any cards as per the normal resupply rules, may she use her special ability to draw an Event or Item card?

It might be argued that the use of the word "extra" in the description of her ability indicates that she cannot use her special ability unless she actually draws a card while resupplying. However, it can also be argued that the strict definition of "extra" does not indicate that the card drawn using Mina's ability be in addition to a non-zero number of card draws.

The FAQ does not cover this case, as the only FAQ question relating to Mina's ability examines only the case of drawing an Event card in a small city. (Strictly, English grammar tells us that a sentence containing an "if" clause says nothing at all about the case when the "if" clause it not met. This is why we hear the construct "if and only if" so often in the field of logic.)



#2 wraith

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Posted 04 August 2009 - 01:44 AM

I meant to mention the consequences of each ruling.

If Mina is permitted to use her ability without drawing any cards using the normal rules for resupplying, she will be able to use her ability in Castle Dracula and will be able to draw an Item card in a small city without also drawing an Event card.

If Mina is not permitted to use her ability without drawing any cards using the normal rules for resupplying, she will not be able to use her ability in Castle Dracula and must draw an Event card if she wishes to draw an Item card in a small city.

There are no consequences of either ruling in any other situations.



#3 Nagypapi

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 07:37 AM

wraith said:

I meant to mention the consequences of each ruling.

If Mina is permitted to use her ability without drawing any cards using the normal rules for resupplying, she will be able to use her ability in Castle Dracula and will be able to draw an Item card in a small city without also drawing an Event card.

If Mina is not permitted to use her ability without drawing any cards using the normal rules for resupplying, she will not be able to use her ability in Castle Dracula and must draw an Event card if she wishes to draw an Item card in a small city.

There are no consequences of either ruling in any other situations.

Your second version is the correct one. A hunter actually has 4 options in an empty city: rest, trade, resupply or do nothing. If Mina does nothing she is not resupplying, ergo, no extra card from her ability. To resupply she needs to draw a card. The FAQ clearly states that Mina has to draw an event card in a small city first before she can draw her extra card (and that extra card can both event or item).



#4 wraith

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Posted 19 August 2009 - 10:37 PM

Nagypapi said:

Your second version is the correct one. A hunter actually has 4 options in an empty city: rest, trade, resupply or do nothing. If Mina does nothing she is not resupplying, ergo, no extra card from her ability.

Checking the rules, this is true, up to here. The rules state that the hunter may do one of rest, resupply or trade, not must, so doing none of them is an option.

Nagypapi said:

To resupply she needs to draw a card.

This is not true. There is a case in which the rules specifically state that resupplying can occur without drawing a card. (That is, when resupplying in Castle Dracula.) There is nothing that says that this case must be the only case in which this can occur.

And even if this were a unique case, it would still raise the question of whether Mina could use her special ability in Castle Dracula.

Nagypapi said:

The FAQ clearly states that Mina has to draw an event card in a small city first before she can draw her extra card (and that extra card can both event or item).

The FAQ says nothing of the sort, as I already stated in my original post.



#5 Gamer

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 06:41 AM

While I do not know the answer to this question you can submit rule questions to FFG. Go to their main page and at the very bottom in small text is a link for rule questions.



#6 wraith

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Posted 21 August 2009 - 02:16 PM

Ah, is that where they moved that link to? I'll make use of it tonight, when I have more time. Thank you.






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