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King of Fighters XII


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#1 ROTBI

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 01:53 PM

Unfortunately, it's a let-down.  I have to go to work now or else I'd expand on this more. 



#2 DaiAndOh

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 06:36 PM

Could have told you that man.  It's that fortuante to be in NYC arcade experience.

1 step forward, 3 back.



#3 ROTBI

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 01:45 AM

I think you're the only person on here that even comes close to liking fighting games as much as I love them.  Had you said something sooner I totally would have heeded your advice.  I love the series, so I'm still in shock that the game could be that bad.  I didn't think it could ever get to this level.  Those beautifully hand-drawn characters look SO pixelated on my high-definition TV.  The movesets are so small with only one DM-type attack.  And NO story mode?  The only unlockable is the gallery. I can't even begin to describe how let down I am.

I was willing to accept flame-less Iori as part of the story, since Ash takes them in the the saga...but there's no story present so I feel like there's not even an excuse for the way he plays now.  The controls feel unresponsive compared to previous titles and what the heck is up with Ralf's (or was it Clark's) hop kick?  Lame.

I've been waiting for this for so long.  I kinda wish I just got kicked in the jimmies months ago instead, at least I would have recovered from that by now. 



#4 guitalex2008

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 09:07 AM

Geez, get a grip.

This is a fresh start to the franchise.  The game is balanced and has an incredible online component.  And it's FUN.

The reason those hand drawn sprites look pixelated is because we have some AOF-sized players here (yes, I meant to say AOF, as in Art of Fighting).  The camera zooms in and out of the action (like AoF and SS before it). so you might see pixels.  Another complaint I've heard is that the game is too slow.  My counter-argument is that so was 3S in comparison to SF2, because when you add more high-quality animation frames, you kind of need to process them. Guilty Gear has beautiful sprites, but it doesn't run at MvC2 speed.

I don't mind having small movesets.  Let's assume for a second that Terry had his Power Charge.  That and Critical Counter could've opened the doors for a corner infinite.  Critical Counter, C+D, Power Charge until the opponent can't breathe.  Returning the movesets to simpler movesets makes it easy to learn the moves, but characters like Chin and Duo Lon will take time to master.

And about the unresponsiveness, I have no clue what to tell you; it feels fine to me.  What system are you playing at, and what controller are you using?

I don't know, XII is different to the other KOF in the series, but I like XII BECAUSE it's different.



#5 DaiAndOh

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 11:10 AM

Crit counter is dumb lol.  One move combos ftw. 

XIII may help though.  After all 2003 was ehhhh but XI was one of the better ones in the series (2nd to 98 IMO.)



#6 knew_b33

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 02:40 PM

I'm not too much into the traditional KoF games but I loved playng KoFMI2K6 at a friends house and just loved the easiness and craziness the combo system and specials get to be... go on, hit the girl with the cane, I dare you! either way, I have played XII and did enjoy my moneys worth on it, true the biggest let down is no story and not much unlockable but overall... it's a fighting game. Fighting games are supposed to aim at what everyone wants to do in the words of Stroke 9; KICK SOME ASS! and this game had the mark just having story mode and other things make it worth playing more an more on your own instead of simply raising the difficulty level.

the critical counter is a little dumb since it's either A) too easy to get or B) really stupid to try, I more just ignored it and then tried getting the timing when I had a lot of life spared.

I love fighting games too but I'm now introduced to this franchise and enjoy it, though now I'm just waiting for the SS game coming out too as well as Tekken 6... popping my cherry on that one too.



#7 Ender Dragon

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 06:05 PM

I had the game on pre-order... until they announced that there was no "active" tagging in and out. I cancelled it the next day. I am even happier about that decision now that I have played the game. This was 2 steps forward (with the new sprites and stages) and 5 steps back (tagging, game speed, greatly shortened movesets, storyline, no set teams, i could go on, but I said 5 steps) I guess I was hoping for something great after the sheer awesomness that was XI, sadly, SNK could not deliver. At least I have BlazBlue and SF4.



#8 guitalex2008

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 08:05 AM

I can name MANY people who think tagging was a bad idea.  I liked it just fine, but I'm not talking about me.

The greatly shortened movesets, like it or not, balance the game out.  Critical Counter is NOT easy to get, and forcing your way in to try them will get you KILLED.  Also, mashing one button when you DO get it might look OK, but it doesn't do NEARLY as much damage as using actual moves.

DaiAndOh said it best; 2003 was bad, but XI was amazing.  KOF XII is nicknamed KOF Re-Birth for a reason; it shows that they are willing and able to move the franchise forward.  This might not be the best KOF ever (IMHO it's tied between XI, 98 and 2002), but it's by far, not the worst (again IMHO that belongs to 99, 2001 or 2003).  And what's better is that it's more balanced than any KOF ever, and that includes the earlier ones too.



#9 DaiAndOh

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Posted 28 July 2009 - 03:34 PM

In my opinion, shortening movesets for balance is bad game design.  More options instead of less are better, they should have either changed the movesets or added balancers to the system itself.



#10 ROTBI

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 06:00 AM

DaiAndOh said:

In my opinion, shortening movesets for balance is bad game design.  More options instead of less are better, they should have either changed the movesets or added balancers to the system itself.

Quoted for truth.  Less options is a cop-out unless it would severely dampen the quality of the previously established options, which is not the case here.



#11 dshaffer

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 08:04 AM

I'd point to the success of SFIV to show why they did it.  Over the years fighting games have created a whole slew of mechanics, and it's frankly very intimidating for new players.  So they cut out a lot of the extras that have acrued over the years and cut the moves down to a half dozen or so specials.   KOFXII is a similar 'back to basics' release, trying to get a bunch of new people back into the genre.  Blazblue, the most complicated of the new fighters, is itself much simpler then Guilty Gear was.  They're not trying to dumb the game down, they're trying to get more people to play them.



#12 knew_b33

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 11:42 AM

dshaffer said:

I'd point to the success of SFIV to show why they did it.  Over the years fighting games have created a whole slew of mechanics, and it's frankly very intimidating for new players.  So they cut out a lot of the extras that have acrued over the years and cut the moves down to a half dozen or so specials.   KOFXII is a similar 'back to basics' release, trying to get a bunch of new people back into the genre.  Blazblue, the most complicated of the new fighters, is itself much simpler then Guilty Gear was.  They're not trying to dumb the game down, they're trying to get more people to play them.

I agree on the fact that BlazBlue is for some reason harder to get right while also being easier than Guilty Gear... though Guilty Gear didn't have the Drive system that they moved on to BlazBlue. GO BANG!!!

and also that the biggest problem is, in my opinion, that with the cuts of Survival and other silly but braggable side stuff is indeed lame but at the sametime can bring you to focus on just playing your best and better characters.



#13 guitalex2008

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 05:14 AM

ROTBI said:

DaiAndOh said:

 

In my opinion, shortening movesets for balance is bad game design.  More options instead of less are better, they should have either changed the movesets or added balancers to the system itself.

 

 

Quoted for truth.  Less options is a cop-out unless it would severely dampen the quality of the previously established options, which is not the case here.

Except in the cases where they DID change the movesets, people were pissed off.  You have no idea how many people returned the game to the store because Iori's moveset was changed?  (I like him more that way TBH)

Changing the movesets for balance is worse for this game than shortening the movelists, particularly because there's a fanbase to keep up, and they won't appreciate it.



#14 Homme Chapeau

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 06:03 AM

guitalex2008 said:

DaiAndOh said it best; 2003 was bad, but XI was amazing.  KOF XII is nicknamed KOF Re-Birth for a reason; it shows that they are willing and able to move the franchise forward.  This might not be the best KOF ever (IMHO it's tied between XI, 98 and 2002), but it's by far, not the worst (again IMHO that belongs to 99, 2001 or 2003).  And what's better is that it's more balanced than any KOF ever, and that includes the earlier ones too.

Yep, now if they could only fix the online on 360 I'd be gravy with it. Honestly, I feel they came back to the core of the characters (although Joe losing his Golden Heel makes me bleh) and while some of the characters I enjoyed before (Clark and Kim, to be precise) lost what I liked about them (Clark's many throws of doom, and Kim's... other charge attacks), some regained that fun to play mechanic I always liked (Robert finally settling on 236 as opposed to charges, for example).

It's a good start. I just wish they had more than just a good start to be frank.



#15 guitalex2008

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 04:45 AM

The game is fun, and I can't see much unbalance; pretty much everyone can hold their own for the most part.  The ONE thing they need to fix, and they're working on it, is the online mode.

I honestly haven't tried it yet but I've heard nightmares about it.



#16 LordAggro

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 05:48 AM

I like it, to be honest; it's not on par with BlazBlue IMHO, but so far no fighting game this year has been at that level so far.  SFIV is pretty good, but the fundamentally defensive nature of the game irks me somewhat (though Zangief is very powerful there, which makes me happy, since I've been a 'Gief fan for years).  Anyway, back to KOF.

The game is pretty solidly balanced, and offers some elements of depth with the dodge rolls, counter attacks, and the Critical Counter gauge.  The movelist may have gotten trimmed, but playing a balanced game makes it all worthwhile (I'm still brushing up on my grappling skills so that I can pulll throws off more consistently).  It's not showstopping, but it's a very solid release.



#17 MarcoPulleaux

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 01:54 PM

BlazBlue appears to be nothing more than a copy of how Guilty Gear or Arcana Hearts play.

Can somebody here properly dispell my lack of information?



#18 DaiAndOh

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 07:35 PM

MarcoPulleaux said:

BlazBlue appears to be nothing more than a copy of how Guilty Gear or Arcana Hearts play.

Can somebody here properly dispell my lack of information?

It's the same style of game, done by the same people who did GG, intended to be a spiritual successor since GGs can't be made anymore at this point.  If you want proof, look into the system yourself.



#19 Homme Chapeau

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Posted 02 August 2009 - 06:15 AM

guitalex2008 said:

I honestly haven't tried it yet but I've heard nightmares about it.

It's very horrible. It's the same with BlazBlue for me so I can't exactly compare between the two, but yeah, it's awful.

Also, Joe + Critical Counter = Good game.



#20 guitalex2008

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Posted 03 August 2009 - 08:33 AM

I saw the nastiest Elisabeth CC.  Sad, because she has to have the opponent cornered, but does nearly 70% of the opponent's life (take into consideration that she only has one attacking move lol).

It's like this: CC, qcf+A x 4 (end CC), CD->qcf+C, CD->qcf+C, qcf,qcf+P, qcf+A

It looks hilarious.  I've never seen so much juggle in my life outside of Vanessa/Angel Infinites.

I've played BlazBlue and it's a great game (if you liked GG).  However, I can't help but after seeing a lot of gameplay from the game, seeing how imbalanced the game is, and that's probably inherently due to the fighting engine.

I've seen tournament players take rotations for more than an hour.  After that hour, they would only pick one of five characters.  Taser, V-13, Boobie-lady Litchi, Ragna and guy that hits like mach truck and looks strangely and almost copyright-infringing like Karas.






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