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Why the Snipe?


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#1 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 04:01 AM

The two top Wow model planes of 1918 are Fokker DVII and Sopwith Snipe. I am all with you on the superb DVII, it had a great impact on the the air war from may 1918 to the armistice and if Jasta 11 got their a few days earlier the "red baron" might had survived the war.

But the Snipe only reached the front the 23 october, and I know that Jasta Boelke fought it in the battle of the 4th november, jasta Bs last battle, Bolle shot down 4 of totaly 5 doened, not bad with fuel for 1 1/2 hour. And I know it was in battle the 27th october also, and probably some more but really, it was used for a month, and in battle for about 2 weeks.

Even Odd planes like Oswald Boelkes Fokker DIII was used a lot more, or Max immelmanns Fokker EIV. It was a very fine plane but it should really be released as an oddity with planes like Fokker EV/DVIII instead. The opponent the DVII usually fought was the Spad XIII, camels and SE5a. Of course we should get cards for it but releasing the model so early when a lot of great and widely used planes like the SE5 and the Bristol fighter isn't released seems just wrong to me.

There are of course many cool odder planes that was produced that would be nice models, like my favorite the Fokker DVI, Fokker EIV and many others, and a pack with those would have been nice too. But not so early when we still miss so many good and planes that was used in great numbers.

So what is the reason behind it? Game balance? Or is it Andrea or Piers favorite plane?



#2 The Sundance Kid

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 06:29 AM

Pour Le Merite said:

So what is the reason behind it? Game balance? Or is it Andrea or Piers favorite plane?

 

Yes, game balanced as mentioned before.

 

Most gaming companies will release minis (or what ever) to balance a game and not release in a chronological order.



#3 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 07:38 AM

The Sundance Kid said:

Most gaming companies will release minis (or what ever) to balance a game and not release in a chronological order.

This is not about chronical order but the fact that the Snipe saw almost no action in WW1 even though it was used in the russian civil war right after.

Even really rare planes like the Pfalz DVII saw more action. It should have been added in one of the last packs when the rest of the planes were done instead of one of the first, it gives people the idea that it was the regular enemy to the Fokker DVII even though it was probably the rarest thing during the whole war, or at least close to that.

Still a campaign book with real battles would be fun BTW, I would love to play in Jasta Boelke the 4th of November 1918. But it still sucks that I have to get tin SE5s and tripplehounds from england or Italy when I can go down to my local store and pick up Snipes in 15 mins.

Yes, I am building a gigantic collection to play in RPG/boardgame conventions and need lots of the common planes and a few of the odder ones :D



#4 Necronis

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 09:30 AM

      When flying at my two local stores it seems Im always against  2-3  DVII because of power creep. Unless dates are stated I guess this will always be so.

     To tell the truth I dont fly a Neuport but a Camel, but I too have commented on all the players with very late war planes. Most out of ignorance but more of the planes from earlier years being released would have made more sense. This isnt a complaint though- as any planes for this game are a good thing. But once the two "Primo" models came out its hard to get a new player to "downgrade".

     Just an observation from my area.



#5 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 10:45 AM

Necronis said:

      When flying at my two local stores it seems Im always against  2-3  DVII because of power creep. Unless dates are stated I guess this will always be so.

     To tell the truth I dont fly a Neuport but a Camel, but I too have commented on all the players with very late war planes. Most out of ignorance but more of the planes from earlier years being released would have made more sense. This isnt a complaint though- as any planes for this game are a good thing. But once the two "Primo" models came out its hard to get a new player to "downgrade".

     Just an observation from my area.

Actually, in real combat was the Spad XIII and Fokker DVII rather close, or at least so say My Osprey book Spad XIII VS Fokker DVII on the western front. The Fokker was slightly better but not so much that it destroys the balance of the game.

As I see it we need campaign rules badly. And that includes a point system there for each side to play fair games as well as actual battlesready to play, deciden planes, altitudes, positions and so on from real battles.

But a point system is not a bad idea, and some planes you could actually use points to improve, some Nieuport 17 had both a vicker and a lewis gun but most had one of tyhem (I hate the lewis gun, it have so little ammo compared to the vickers). Some Sopwith Triplanes had 2 vickers instead of one (well, 6 had it but that is anough to have one in the battle). However both those planes couldnt do some manuevers that the regular could due to weight so you would either have to use a special deck, or mix 2 decks together and take away the forbidden moves.

Certain planes had better engines than the regular ones too, Voss and some other germans used captured french engines in their dr! for better performance. Some SPAD VII had actually the same engine as the SPAD XIII.

Nieuport 17 and a few other planes could use rockets against balloons and later planes had incendiary bullets.

And of course are there ways to improve the pilots also. A few extra cards with cool manuevers you could buy for points would work also to even out the odds. Of course WW1 wasn't fair but the option for a point system when making scenarios and a way for pilots to actually improve after a few succesful games would make the game fairer and adding more fun, not just "I bought the best plane, our side all did so your side with Rolands and DIIIs will lose".



#6 The Sundance Kid

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 02:11 PM

Pour Le Merite said:

The Sundance Kid said:

 

Most gaming companies will release minis (or what ever) to balance a game and not release in a chronological order.

 

 

 

Nor is it about amount of use.

 

Game Balance.



#7 The Sundance Kid

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 02:20 PM

Something similar to a point system could be interesting if you want to just play a pick up game.

 

Something like levels

 

Like a Ni23 would be level 1 and a fokker VII would be a level 2.



#8 Pour Le Merite

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Posted 18 July 2009 - 02:05 AM

To be honest I was also very suprised about the UFAG C.1, mostly because the only thing I ever heard about UFAG was that the factory was located in Budapest (and I only heard something about it licensed Lohner bombers) but some (rather extensive really) research told me that the plane was a licensed made Hansa Brandenburgh C1. I never been good on Austrian planes I guess or I would have recognised it by looks.

So I guess it is as an Austrian opponent for the italians, cool by me. Just odd that they didn't call it Brandenburgh C1 or Hansa-Brandenburgh C1 instead as it was what the plane was usually called. Anyone know the reason for that?

Makes life hard for the guys like me who wants to have some real background to read about the planes.






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