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eliminating NPCs


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#1 4lterego

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 03:17 PM

Is there any way to do this other than through the plot outcomes? 

I find that links to favors add up late in the game and certain NPC favors can be worth 6-8 VPs apiece!



#2 Paul Grogan

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 07:25 PM

No, there is no way to eliminate NPC's except for what happens on the cards.
And yes, NPC favours can be worth a huge amount of points at the end.

This is one of the areas of the game identified by a lot of people that needs fixing.  Some games are won or lost on the favours, and their points at the end are too high compared to the effort taken to get them.  As such, because of this, in the 7 games I have played, nobody has ever traded in their favours for a Jinteki / Haas token because the favour was always better.

Various solutions are out there.
1. Make it so that you need 2 favours to get the same points as 1 was worth. (i.e you get nothing for the 1st, 3rd, 5th favour)
2. Make all favours simply worth half points
3. The first favour of a type gets you no points, but then all future favours are worth full points.

Experiment and see what you find suits best.  As it stands, favours are way too powerful.



#3 Bleached Lizard

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 10:47 PM

The house rules we use are:

1) You need a pair of favours of the same type to count as one favour on the conspiracy board.

2) NPC favours only count as ONE type of favour from those shown on the chit.  The player must choose at game end what type of favour it is.



#4 subochre

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 07:07 AM

Paul Grogan said:

Some games are won or lost on the favours, and their points at the end are too high compared to the effort taken to get them.  As such, because of this, in the 7 games I have played, nobody has ever traded in their favours for a Jinteki / Haas token because the favour was always better.

 

Weird...In the ones I've played, only one or two types of favors were worth anything, and then at most two points.  I think it's because the other players knew that they were outmatched favor-wise by Louis, so they'd play the conspiracy defensively (Floyd and Raymond in particular; Caprice would go either way depending on whether her potential edge on corp favors, say, was worth more than the prospect of Jinteki tokens)



#5 klarlack

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 12:39 AM

Bleached Lizard said:

 

2) NPC favours only count as ONE type of favour from those shown on the chit.  The player must choose at game end what type of favour it is.

 

 

 

This is exactly what the rules tell you. so it is impossible for a favor (and also a npc-favor) to be worth more than 4 vp's at the end (but only in the unlikely case, that you will link this favor bonus 4 times...)



#6 Bleached Lizard

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 01:19 AM

klarlack said:

Bleached Lizard said:

 

2) NPC favours only count as ONE type of favour from those shown on the chit.  The player must choose at game end what type of favour it is.

 

 

 

This is exactly what the rules tell you. so it is impossible for a favor (and also a npc-favor) to be worth more than 4 vp's at the end (but only in the unlikely case, that you will link this favor bonus 4 times...)

Incorrect.  From page 39 of the rulebook:

**Although favors are not normally worth points, the conspiracy
puzzle may cause them to be worth points. Note
that NPC favors gain all VP bonuses for each type of favor
they show on their token
(e.g., a Mr. Li favor gains the VP
bonuses for all four types of normal favors).

Also in the strategy article for Louis Blaine, it explicitly states that Mr Li favours could potatially be worth 16VPs each at the end of the game.



#7 klarlack

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Posted 17 July 2009 - 07:31 AM

Bleached Lizard said:

 

 

Incorrect.  From page 39 of the rulebook:

**Although favors are not normally worth points, the conspiracy
puzzle may cause them to be worth points. Note
that NPC favors gain all VP bonuses for each type of favor
they show on their token
(e.g., a Mr. Li favor gains the VP
bonuses for all four types of normal favors).

Also in the strategy article for Louis Blaine, it explicitly states that Mr Li favours could potatially be worth 16VPs each at the end of the game.

 

yep, you are right :)

i think i missed this part ;)

but 16 vp is, i think, really unlikely. i think, it is diffucult enough to link up the right conspiracy twice, especially when your opponents aren't sleeping the whole game. but, i have to admit, that this option is making the npc favors more interesting.



#8 Tsugo

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Posted 30 July 2009 - 09:04 AM

I have always tried to close down paths on the conspiracy when I see players trying to run up their favors, unless I have accrued my own piles. 



#9 Justin Alexander

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Posted 05 August 2009 - 09:27 PM

Tsugo said:

I have always tried to close down paths on the conspiracy when I see players trying to run up their favors, unless I have accrued my own piles. 

It seems like most of the "balance" issues people keep citing for ANDROID really boil down a lack of defensive and/or offensive play. It's a competitive game, folks: If you see someone aiming to score big points off of favors, then you should do something to stop them. There are lots of ways to do that.






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