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New Rogue Trader Designer Diary: Rogue Trader Preview #2


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#1 FFG Ross Watson

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 09:47 AM

Hi Rogue Trader fans!

This week I have another short-but-sweet designer diary featuring the second preview for the Rogue Trader core rulebook. This time, the preview focuses on three pages from Chapter VIII: Starships—enjoy!



#2 Lanowar

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 11:37 AM

Sounds intresting looking forward to seeing what my group can produce. Some people in my group have been looking forward to creating unique looking ships.



#3 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 11:53 AM

Looking good. Can't wait to get my hands on it.



#4 Santiago

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 01:13 PM

Well, I can't wait till I can give my acolytes a small frigate or so.

But first I need ascension.....and Rogue Trader...Gni

Thoug I do have one quick quistion, I always imagened these ships, including the frigates to have a few rowes of broadside guns besides one or two "hardpoints".
Though these might cost extra SP and cost you precious cargo-space...



#5 MDMann

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 01:50 PM

Cool.  But what about Destroyers (or are these covered by the Frigates as they're both Escorts)? Or heavier ships such as Heavy Cruisers and Battle Cruisers (ignoring the Battleships for a moment), will they be covered in future releases? Actually, Destroyers would be more useful, but still it looks good (so far; we're watching you)...



#6 Cynical Cat

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 02:54 PM

Until now I've been happy with everything I've seen about Rogue Trader.  I was pretty pumped when I read this update and then I got to the accelerations.

Now admittedly Warhammer fiction isn't full of a lot of easily calculatable speeds and acceleration for ships so the number of examples is limited, but there are some and the majority indicate double and triple digit gravities of acceleration (Flight of the Eisenstien has one of the best examples).

So seeing ship acceleration being measured in single digit gravities didn't make me a happy camper.

Now I realize that I'm seeing only part of the picture on this and I also realize that even if this does turn out to be as bad as it looks its a error that is fairly easy to deal with, but it bothers me. 



#7 Psion

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 04:58 PM

MDMann said:

Cool.  But what about Destroyers (or are these covered by the Frigates as they're both Escorts)? Or heavier ships such as Heavy Cruisers and Battle Cruisers (ignoring the Battleships for a moment), will they be covered in future releases? Actually, Destroyers would be more useful, but still it looks good (so far; we're watching you)...

My knowledge of naval catagories is hazy but a frigate is smaller then a cruiser class vessel if I remember correctly.  After that you're up to capital ships.  Of course, Battlefleet Gothic may be using a different system I'm not familiar with in which case everything I just said is completely moot.



#8 Idaan

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Posted 10 July 2009 - 11:14 PM

Awesome! I'm more and more interested in the Rogue Trader. At first it seemed less interesting than Dark Heresy, but now with these ships the 'sandbox' feeling of this game has caught me. I have great hopes in you, FFG!

 

Still, there is one odd thing. Jericho class pilgrim vessel is described as huge and hulking at 2,25 km and 9 megatonnes, while Vagabond class merchant vessel is said to be small and agile with 2 km and 8 megatonnes. I hope that the Jericho gets upgraded for the final release to some more formidable size. Also the acceleration rates seem a bit puny. I understand that it's always hard to come up with numbers for 40k, but at least go over the top rather than too small, so that we don't end with things like 2 million Guardsmen defending Armageddon from Waaagh! or population of Scintilla being 25 billion for a world with a continent-spanning hive.



#9 Tullio

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 03:08 AM

Battle Cruisers? Battleships? I hope not. This is Rogue Trader, not Battlefleet Gothic. Just being able to travel the stars as you please is massively valuable in the Imperium, let alone to do so in ships that take decades to build from Emperor-knows how many mines, factorum and processing plants. I'm quite happy with what I've seen thus far, though I am curious about the rest of the components



#10 Varnias Tybalt

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 03:33 AM

Santiago said:

Thoug I do have one quick quistion, I always imagened these ships, including the frigates to have a few rowes of broadside guns besides one or two "hardpoints".
Though these might cost extra SP and cost you precious cargo-space...

THey probably do, it's just that the broadside guns of Imperial vessels are usually considered to be small ordinance (firing dumb-fire torpedoes, artillery pieces and lascannons etc. etc.), meant primarily to use at really close range. While the hardpoints are meant for the big guns (Lance batteries etc.)



#11 Necronis

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 05:07 AM

     I'm wondering if my current game is going to turn into two seperate games, or if we play RT with Dark Heresy characters. No reason why I cant base the campaign around an Inquisitors ship- perhaps shadowing a Rogue Trader. I do know I can hardly wait for the release! Guess I'll play it by ear as to what my players are interested in.



#12 Traveller61

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 06:17 AM

Psion said:

MDMann said:

Cool.  But what about Destroyers (or are these covered by the Frigates as they're both Escorts)? Or heavier ships such as Heavy Cruisers and Battle Cruisers (ignoring the Battleships for a moment), will they be covered in future releases? Actually, Destroyers would be more useful, but still it looks good (so far; we're watching you)...

 

My knowledge of naval catagories is hazy but a frigate is smaller then a cruiser class vessel if I remember correctly.  After that you're up to capital ships.  Of course, Battlefleet Gothic may be using a different system I'm not familiar with in which case everything I just said is completely moot.

Battlefleet Gothic has only a few classes of Imperial ships: Destroyers, Frigates (all considered Escorts), Light Cruisers, Cruisers, Battlecruisers and Battleships (all Capital Ships).

The Chaos forces are similar but they have Raiders instead of Frigates, no Light Cruisers and have Heavy Cruisers in place of Battlecruisers; they also have a new class Grand Cruiser between Heavy Cruisers and Battleships. 

DW



#13 Psion

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 06:52 AM

Traveller61 said:

Battlefleet Gothic has only a few classes of Imperial ships: Destroyers, Frigates (all considered Escorts), Light Cruisers, Cruisers, Battlecruisers and Battleships (all Capital Ships).

The Chaos forces are similar but they have Raiders instead of Frigates, no Light Cruisers and have Heavy Cruisers in place of Battlecruisers; they also have a new class Grand Cruiser between Heavy Cruisers and Battleships. 

DW

Thank you, although that being said I second Tullio's counterpoint.  This is (more often then note) just a captain and his ship trying to improve his wealth and reputation, not some admiral leading legions of ships into battle.



#14 Santiago

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 11:28 AM

So, I did some further studying:

Detection:
Ships senses, add to some percentile rolls, equals Skill Test

Manouverablity:
Added or subtracted from Pilot (Space Craft) skill test

Armour: 
Armour Point against Large Weapons (I doubt a Las Pistol would penetrate a hull)

Turret Rating:
Would these be the Broadside weapons and weapons used against small craft, fighters/bombers?

 

Any thoughts?



#15 Kaihlik

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 12:01 PM

Cynical Cat said:

 

Until now I've been happy with everything I've seen about Rogue Trader.  I was pretty pumped when I read this update and then I got to the accelerations.

Now admittedly Warhammer fiction isn't full of a lot of easily calculatable speeds and acceleration for ships so the number of examples is limited, but there are some and the majority indicate double and triple digit gravities of acceleration (Flight of the Eisenstien has one of the best examples).

So seeing ship acceleration being measured in single digit gravities didn't make me a happy camper.

Now I realize that I'm seeing only part of the picture on this and I also realize that even if this does turn out to be as bad as it looks its a error that is fairly easy to deal with, but it bothers me. 

 

Well the larger ones the acceleration value is the maximum sustainable acceleration so I would guess that things like all ahead full maneuvers would be able to produce much higher accelerations. What was the Flight of the Eisenstien value again because I cant remember. Most of the hulls so far are actually cargo vessels and so not designed for rapid acceleration and deceleration.

@ MDMann - I would guess that maybe destroyers like the cobra are too given over to weapons to be an effective cargo ship and so may not have been included. Of course they may appear in a future supliment, I can easily imagine the Rogue Trader version of the Inquisitors Handbook containing loads of different hull types. Maybe the main rulebook only contains a few of each type on the basis that more will be supplied in subsequent books.

I really like the look of this and am glad for some more solid crew numbers, a whole bunch of people in my area have just gotten in to Gothic and it is great fun to play. I might need to buy some Imperial ships to use for this.

Kaihlik



#16 Santiago

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 12:32 PM

I don not think they have shown us all ships, so the Cobra might still be in there...



#17 Thrudd

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 01:00 PM

 

I've just downloaded the preview, and it makes me really happy to see where things are going, I'm looking forward to integrating Rogue Trader stuff in with Dark Heresy, as well as hopefully launching brave boarding actions, power cutlass in hand!

 

I also can't express how awesome the artwork is I've seen so far, I'm a sucker for pretty pictures, particularly of space craft.

 

Rules wise, I'm hesitant to comment without full context for obvious reasons, but my first thought after a quick look was where are the shields ?

It might be the BFGer in me talking here, but shields are rather important, even for normal activity in space.  I'm also left wondering about how the weapons capacity system is going to work.   The Sword Class has two dorsal hardpoints,  which the picture on the page shows is fairly...um, not exactly accurate, but I've noticed no actual axial or broadside notations, so I'm wondering is this some sort of catchall hardpoint , or are generic broadside armaments considered "as standard" ?

I'd also have to agree that the acceleration figures made me wince a little,  its very difficult to accelerate up to 75% of lightspeed, or indeed slow down from such a speed, in any useful time frame when you've got a measly 4.5 gees to play with.   (I'm assumign this was the Flight of the Eisenstein number someone referenced , since I can't think of anything else from the novel)

In fact, generally speaking,  combat velocities in 40k fiction tend change rapidly enough that we are looking at thousands of gees to rationalise it.

Mass is also an issue, 6 million tonnes sounds a lot, until you are talking about a 1.5km long starship, made up of dense, heavy armour plating and bulkheads.  Given that 40k starships appear to propel themselves by belching out vast plumes of accelerated plasma (i.e. a giant reaction engine), there is a requirement for a significant mass of fuel as well!

 

 

 



#18 MDMann

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 02:05 PM

@ Kaihlik: I could see that. A supplement detailing ships or the Imperial Navy could cover Cobra Destroyers.

@ Thrudd: The masses could be unloaded (including fuel).  Fuel (loaded or not) could be treated seperately from cargo capicity too. We'll see.



#19 Cynical Cat

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 02:42 PM

Kaihlik said:

Well the larger ones the acceleration value is the maximum sustainable acceleration so I would guess that things like all ahead full maneuvers would be able to produce much higher accelerations. What was the Flight of the Eisenstien value again because I cant remember. Most of the hulls so far are actually cargo vessels and so not designed for rapid acceleration and deceleration.

 

Flight of the Eisenstien doesn't directly produce a number, but it has a very handy example of having a mobile space fortrress undergo a velocity change of .75C over the distance between Earth and Pluto.  Now the exact distance is unknown (because the alignment of Earth and Pluto isn't), so we have a range of comparatively close numbers between maximum and minimum distance (because the biggest number by far is getting from Pluto to the inner system).  The numbers are in hundreds of gees.  To repeat, that's a space fortress pulling those gees, not a destroyer.

And it's not a outlyer.  Execution Hour has a hundred plus gee acceleration for the Planet Killer of all things, Sabbat Martyr has ships crossing multiple AUs fairly quickly and still being able to maneuver (which would require massive accelerations),  there's instances in the Grey Knights books as ships crossing systems in hours and pulling into orbit (again massive accelerations required to brake into orbit against those speeds), and so on.



#20 Traveller61

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 10:03 PM

As for the speeds of ships in the older fluff sublight travel is a lot slower - in Imperial Armour III it takes 3 days to reach the system's sun (approx 1AU); in Execution Hour it takes Imperial ships days to reach the safe distance for warp entry.

With so much contradictory information out there it will be very interesting to see what the RT figures are.

DW  






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